286 réponses à ce sujet

[IIEquillibriumII]

Argolas wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...

[...] and still Star Trek fans claim the Kings Of Nerdism title?

I don't have any clue about Star Trek, but I think I heard there's an enitre fictional language in Star Trek that fans learn. That's waaaay beyond Mass Effect.

I believe thats Klingon or something i might be wrong though  

[AlanC9]

essarr71 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

if you don't choose Destroy you're a deluded fool.

I do enjoy asking control/systhesis lovers the tough questions and watching the deflections/head-cannon responses.

If that's arrogant, so be it.  

What tough questions would those be?

[AlanC9]

Samtheman63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The only really arrogant Destroy fans are the ITers ; if you don't choose Destroy you're a deluded fool.

3 options, 2 of which end with you siding with the enemy and commiting suicide.  The other ends with you destroying your enemy

hmmmm

Shepard's life is not relevant.

And how does controlling someone mean siding with him.

[Ageless Face]

Samtheman63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The only really arrogant Destroy fans are the ITers ; if you don't choose Destroy you're a deluded fool.

3 options, 2 of which end with you siding with the enemy and commiting suicide.  The other ends with you destroying your enemy

hmmmm

Oversimplifying much?

bTW, in destroy you foolishly run into an explosion, and was told you might die- that is, you were ready to commit suicide. It only didn't work out that well for you...

[Samtheman63]

AlanC9 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The only really arrogant Destroy fans are the ITers ; if you don't choose Destroy you're a deluded fool.

3 options, 2 of which end with you siding with the enemy and commiting suicide.  The other ends with you destroying your enemy

hmmmm

Shepard's life is not relevant.

And how does controlling someone mean siding with him.

Only person who told you to pick control is TiM, TiM is indoctrinated.  The reapers are telling you to pick control

[stargatefan1990]

Samtheman63 wrote...

we destroy them or they destroy us

this, Control seems far too fetched for me same with Synthesis, except this time we have the ability to force the same DNA on everyone! lovely! thats if you take the endings on a literal level which i do not

Modifié par stargatefan1990, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:33 .

[JasonShepard]

Argolas wrote...

If I say "You are indoctrinated" to a poster, then I merely express my interpretation that this person was tricked by the game, and that interpretation may be true or false. If I say "Destroy is the only one and if you pick something else you're stupid.", then I insult the other person.

And that's the problem. You're imposing your interpretation of the game on my playthrough*. You're telling me that I fell for the trick, when as far as I'm concerned, there wasn't a trick. If you were to say "In my opinion" then I'd be happier about it, because it feels less like you're telling me that I'm wrong.

Bioware is never going to confirm or deny IT or anything like it, meaning that it's up to the player to decide whether the endings are meant to be taken at face value, to decide their own canon. If I say there was no trick in my game, then there was no trick in my game.

[Samtheman63]

HagarIshay wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The only really arrogant Destroy fans are the ITers ; if you don't choose Destroy you're a deluded fool.

3 options, 2 of which end with you siding with the enemy and commiting suicide.  The other ends with you destroying your enemy

hmmmm

Oversimplifying much?

bTW, in destroy you foolishly run into an explosion, and was told you might die- that is, you were ready to commit suicide. It only didn't work out that well for you...

being ready to sacrifice my self to save the galaxy and get rid of the reapers is a far cry from believing electricuting yourself will turn you into an AI god that controls them

Modifié par Samtheman63, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:30 .

[Volc19]

Samtheman63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The only really arrogant Destroy fans are the ITers ; if you don't choose Destroy you're a deluded fool.

3 options, 2 of which end with you siding with the enemy and commiting suicide.  The other ends with you destroying your enemy

hmmmm

Shepard's life is not relevant.

And how does controlling someone mean siding with him.

Only person who told you to pick control is TiM, TiM is indoctrinated.  The reapers are telling you to pick control

This is quite nearly the textbook definition of an association fallacy.

Thank you for that, that just made my day.

[Su37]

Let's see...

Synthesis: Reapers alive, Shepard dead, all species forced to merge with synthetics
Control: Reapers alive, Shepard dead
Destroy: Reapers dead, geth destroyed, EDI destroyed, Shepard alive

I'd rather sacrifice the geth and EDI to know that the reapers are actually gone.

[Samtheman63]

It's true, try and deny it

[3DandBeyond]

Though I've had some real fun discussions with hardcore pro-destroyers because I disagree with the choices as a whole, I believe they are following the major tenet of the game-the intent rather than the implementation is on their side, IMO.

Destroy was always the goal. Anyone that wanted anything else was either irrational or indoctrinated. An unvarnished true destroy was the only choice that everyone who was of sound mind, wanted and all that Shepard was given "permission" and even was ordered to achieve. It was the understood (though wrongly so) purpose of the crucible. They were all building a weapon to destroy the reapers, not something to alter them or to make them into trained elephants-destroy, that's what weapons do.

The other part of destroy itself is that your love of it can be solidified if you don't care about EDI or the geth-or if you do believe they would agree to die for this. I find this an erroneous way of thinking, but that works for many people.

The other side of it is the ridiculous natures of control and synthesis. Synthesis is poorly explained-what it does, how that happens. All organic DNA is fully integrated with some tech from somewhere. And all synthetics gain full understanding of organics (that no longer exist) and that understanding comes from where? Who knows?

Control is exactly what TIM just died asserting was possible. He believed he could achieve it but was indoctrinated. And then, what does it mean if you can control the reapers. Shepard's consciousness (not emotions, not conscience) will be uploaded into the same infrastructure that houses the kid's program. It's like putting a new CPU into a broken computer from 1990. And, nothing says the kid is gone. Shepard enters the same flawed thing that housed the kid. And Shepard is supposed to control the reapers to protect the Many? Which Many? If some misbehave, who dies? And real people are not going to want the reapers with people goo in them, and reaper variants running around ALIVE. It's kind of a laughable choice. It's even more so when Shepard, in control, starts talking. The music is ominous. Shepard is not alone in there and some of what is said is ominous. Control is also nothing anyone ever wanted (except for Cerberus and TIM).

Destroy is the only choice that superficially meets certain requirements. If it is true and is what happens, it is what everyone always wanted to do, it is what Shepard wanted to do, it is what Hackett tacitly orders Shepard to do, it is what Anderson (friend and mentor) says is the only choice. It is why the crucible was being made. It is the only choice that says it gets rid of the reapers. It also (if true), puts those poor souls within the reapers at peace and removes this abhorrent abomination from existence. Had this been a choice that people had decided to become one with machines, that might have been a different thing, but those "people" within reapers, didn't want to be there. In strictly humanitarian terms, knowing what has happened, Destroy could be the only thing that frees them.

[Ageless Face]

Samtheman63 wrote...
ready to sacrifice my self to save the galaxy and get rid of the reapers is a far cry from believing electricuting yourself will turn you into an AI god

Right... Shooting some tube which your enemy has told you it will kill him is SO believable.

[IIEquillibriumII]

SU37 wrote...

Let's see...

Synthesis: Reapers alive, Shepard dead, all species forced to merge with synthetics
Control: Reapers alive, Shepard dead
Destroy: Reapers dead, geth destroyed, EDI destroyed, Shepard alive

I'd rather sacrifice the geth and EDI to know that the reapers are actually gone.

Exactly ¨Human statementship at its finest!¨ 

[fiendishchicken]

I'm not an IT'er, but honestly, I think the game should have had endings in a hierarchal order, with destroy being the absolute best.

I really think everything else (Control, Synthesis) should have been a Reaper trick.

It adds menace to the Reapers. It shows that they are also capable of deception to further their own ends.

[Samtheman63]

HagarIshay wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...
ready to sacrifice my self to save the galaxy and get rid of the reapers is a far cry from believing electricuting yourself will turn you into an AI god

Right... Shooting some tube which your enemy has told you it will kill him is SO believable.

he said it wouldn't work, and that the chaos would come back

we seen anderson choosing destroy, TiM control, and synthesis is some bull**** that kid has pulled out of his ass.

remember anderson?  hes a good guy
hint hint

[Jadebaby]

3D

[Red Panda]

AresKeith wrote...

And there aren't arrogant pro-controllers and Synthesis Supporters? And Seival?

Let's be fair, Seival is one of the most rational people on the forums.


Honestly, my idea on the endings is that whatever you picked, you probably had a good reason for it.

Modifié par OperatingWookie, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:41 .

[3DandBeyond]

Volc19 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


Shepard's life is not relevant.

And how does controlling someone mean siding with him.

Only person who told you to pick control is TiM, TiM is indoctrinated.  The reapers are telling you to pick control

This is quite nearly the textbook definition of an association fallacy.

Thank you for that, that just made my day.

It's actually the very specific relationship between control and indoctrination that matters here.  If it were some other story then no there wouldn't be an association, but in this story it's clear.  The only people that thought they could control the reapers were indoctrinated in order to make them believe they could, and they could not.  The only other "person" that believes control is possible already controls the reapers and controlled TIM into believing he could control them.  But he couldn't because they already controlled him. 

That's the association.  It's not at all like saying if you control someone you side with him.

But this story shows it's about thinking you can control someone, but already being controlled by him-he is forcing you to side with him.  You can believe otherwise, but the game says this.  Controlled Protheans stopped the pro-destroyers, and they did this to try and take control.  They sided with the reapers by doing what the reapers wanted under control-they decided not to destroy.  They stopped the crucible from being used by fighting for control.  So, it worked for the reapers.

With TIM, it happens again.  Shepard might lose to TIM if s/he and Anderson die and TIM is for control. 

[Ageless Face]

Samtheman63 wrote...
he said it wouldn't work, and that the chaos would come back

And he still says shooting the tube will destroy the Reapers.

we seen anderson choosing destroy, TiM control, and synthesis is some bull**** that kid has pulled out of his ass.

And that's a telling why? I should choose the choices based on other people's opinions and what they would do? 

remember anderson?  hes a good guy
hint hint

And also the close minded guy.

[Nerevar-as]

HagarIshay wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...
ready to sacrifice my self to save the galaxy and get rid of the reapers is a far cry from believing electricuting yourself will turn you into an AI god

Right... Shooting some tube which your enemy has told you it will kill him is SO believable.

Please tell me anything remotely believable in the last 5 minutes besides choosing Refuse. You need to metagame and trust Starbrat´s idiotic rants to choose any of the others.

[3DandBeyond]

HagarIshay wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...
ready to sacrifice my self to save the galaxy and get rid of the reapers is a far cry from believing electricuting yourself will turn you into an AI god

Right... Shooting some tube which your enemy has told you it will kill him is SO believable.

This is the main issue I have with all of this-it's what would be logical to Shepard.  I can't help but think no rational person confronted with this mess would do anything the kid says.  So what if the kid didn't make the choices-he's telling Shepard what they supposedly do.  It's like saying, "here take this gun.  Point it to your head.  Pull the trigger.  It won't hurt you."  It's one thing (though unbelievable) if a friend tells you to do that.  It's another thing, if some flawed AI serial killer does it.

[DirtyPhoenix]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Who cares either way? It's your game and your choice at the end of the day.

This. Haters gonna hate. In the end its your game and your choice. That said, destroyers definitely seem to be the most arrogant bunch. ITers are among the front-ranking destroy-fanatics.

I personally believe all the three (or four) endings are good/bad depending on your interpretation. There is no objectively best or worst ending. But hey, this is BSN. Hating on other's chosen ending is the "in" thing these days.

[xsdob]

Because people like to be correct, and like to be cruel to others they perceive as different than them. And becasue they view themselves as the majority, they lose any incentive to not give into base urges of being a complete dick to their fellow human beings when it comes to choices they made. It's all a consequence of this medium, and being able to write whatever you want with no consequences to yourself and no one ever having to see who you are, or who the person your talking to is. Once you break it down it really is just the ugly side of human nature coming forward in those types of people, if control or synthesis were the popular ones than you'd be seeing this same problem with them.

Still doesn't mean these dicks shouldn't get called out for acting the way they do. Hell, I would be more open about how destroy is one of my cannon endings for one of my shepards if It wasn't for these crazy people waving their epeens everywhere.

[Argolas]

JasonShepard wrote...

Argolas wrote...

If I say "You are indoctrinated" to a poster, then I merely express my interpretation that this person was tricked by the game, and that interpretation may be true or false. If I say "Destroy is the only one and if you pick something else you're stupid.", then I insult the other person.

And that's the problem. You're imposing your interpretation of the game on my playthrough*. You're telling me that I fell for the trick, when as far as I'm concerned, there wasn't a trick. If you were to say "In my opinion" then I'd be happier about it, because it feels less like you're telling me that I'm wrong.

Bioware is never going to confirm or deny IT or anything like it, meaning that it's up to the player to decide whether the endings are meant to be taken at face value, to decide their own canon. If I say there was no trick in my game, then there was no trick in my game.

Yeah, I guess we agree. Of course "You're indoctrinated so feel stupid" isn't good, either.