212 réponses à ce sujet

[Credit2team]

also grenade hucking takes almost no skill yet is amazingly more powerful than using smash which is much harder to use

you literary could be 10 times better than me and I could beat you if you just use smash by an I just use grenades.

to balance smash, return it to its short cooldown, thank you and goodnight

Modifié par thewalrusx, 21 janvier 2013 - 09:54 .

[hostaman]

It takes a noob to know a noob.

Welcome to the Noob club

[Beerfish]

thewalrusx wrote...

harrier (and to a lesser extent the reager) is a perfect example of a FOO strategy run amok, the the weapons are simply to easy considering their power, so to make them balanced you need to make them either harder to use or less powerful. The best way to fix the harrier would be to revers its in cover out of cover accuracy/stability (in otherwords fix the bug)

The reager should be at least as heavy as the claymore and have a much smaller clip size, this could be counter balanced by giving it (and the harrier) more spare rounds

Is the Reeger used more than the Claymore?  The Claymore packs a massive whallop in an instant and one of it's supposed limiting factors, that being reload speed is totally negated by reload cancelling.  (Same with other heavy hitting weapons such as some sniper rifles, reload speed should be part of the trade off for damage but it isn't.)

[Original Twigman]

thewalrusx wrote...

harrier (and to a lesser extent the reager) is a perfect example of a FOO strategy run amok, the the weapons are simply to easy considering their power, so to make them balanced you need to make them either harder to use or less powerful. The best way to fix the harrier would be to revers its in cover out of cover accuracy/stability (in otherwords fix the bug)

The reager should be at least as heavy as the claymore and have a much smaller clip size, this could be counter balanced by giving it (and the harrier) more spare rounds

nah, those guns, in any hands very much rely on player skill to get the most out of it.

Can't tell you how many players i have played with with harriers that were sub-par. A FOO strategy would be the Novaguard, as it can take down anything until you start getting into the tougher difficultie without much skill.

[born2beagator]

Beerfish wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

harrier (and to a lesser extent the reager) is a perfect example of a FOO strategy run amok, the the weapons are simply to easy considering their power, so to make them balanced you need to make them either harder to use or less powerful. The best way to fix the harrier would be to revers its in cover out of cover accuracy/stability (in otherwords fix the bug)

The reager should be at least as heavy as the claymore and have a much smaller clip size, this could be counter balanced by giving it (and the harrier) more spare rounds

Is the Reeger used more than the Claymore?  The Claymore packs a massive whallop in an instant and one of it's supposed limiting factors, that being reload speed is totally negated by reload cancelling.  (Same with other heavy hitting weapons such as some sniper rifles, reload speed should be part of the trade off for damage but it isn't.)

I completely agree with the reload canceling.  It kills the trade offs for the most powerful weapons

[MrAmies]

Interesting video, thanks op

Lukan wrote...

I use TGI+harrier when Im having a bad day or when pugging gold with a weak team

This.
I use the TGI because I know if I land in a really bad PUG, I'm decent enough with him to help a failing team get to extraction regardless of enemy. If I land in a good PUG however, im happy to change to a number of other kits. 

Two reasons:

The challenge system forced me to learn, or get better with, more characters and weapons.

I jumped from one kit to another as I unlocked them. Yes the store can be frustrating but even if I was using a kit I found easy to do well with I would move on when the RNG gave me something new.

[Eelectrica]

I think we all know when a character and weapon combo is ridiculously easy.
But sometimes after a long, tiring day at work it's exactly what you want. Something easy to unwind with.

Sometimes luck is out with the store so playing something easy for easy credits helps allieviate some of that frustration too.

Spending well over 1million credits and getting nothing, seems the reward isn't there, so brute force it with an easy mode character combination.

Modifié par Eelectrica, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:10 .

[upinya slayin]

Eelectrica wrote...

I think we all know when a character and weapon combo is ridiculously easy.
But sometimes after a long, tiring day at work it's exactly what you want. Something easy to unwind with.

Sometimes luck is out with the store so playing something easy for easy credits helps allieviate some of that frustration too.

Spending well over 1million credits and getting nothing, seems the reward isn't there, so brute force it with an easy mode character combination.

there is nothing wrong with having them in the game for people to have a more accessable game, the issue is when people rely on it too much they wind up losing out on alot of experiances and losing out on developing a skill and feel for the game. and if somehting happens to the kit (a nerf) they can't handle it and they basically give up.

[codsquallic]

Interesting video. I'm not sure about the TGI being a noob kit, other than for the stim-pack. I just like switching up character/builds between games.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Good video. Extra credit always full of good information.

[kuri71]

Cool video makes perfect sense when you think about it.

[Lord Rosario]

upinya slayin wrote...

Eelectrica wrote...

I think we all know when a character and weapon combo is ridiculously easy.
But sometimes after a long, tiring day at work it's exactly what you want. Something easy to unwind with.

Sometimes luck is out with the store so playing something easy for easy credits helps allieviate some of that frustration too.

Spending well over 1million credits and getting nothing, seems the reward isn't there, so brute force it with an easy mode character combination.

there is nothing wrong with having them in the game for people to have a more accessable game, the issue is when people rely on it too much they wind up losing out on alot of experiances and losing out on developing a skill and feel for the game. and if somehting happens to the kit (a nerf) they can't handle it and they basically give up.

That is, if a new player can get the TGI [new rare card] and a good assault rifle [probably an ulta rare] and genade gear [several rare cards] to go with it before they adopt something else. By the time the've got everything to pull off the OP TGI, they've likely gained quite a bit of skill.

[Chala]

upinya slayin wrote...



I found this interesting as it relates to "noobs" and their harrier+TGI and also to missile glitchers as well.

Wait...
Am I a noob if I use Saber + TGI?

[Credit2team]

Original Stikman wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

harrier (and to a lesser extent the reager) is a perfect example of a FOO strategy run amok, the the weapons are simply to easy considering their power, so to make them balanced you need to make them either harder to use or less powerful. The best way to fix the harrier would be to revers its in cover out of cover accuracy/stability (in otherwords fix the bug)

The reager should be at least as heavy as the claymore and have a much smaller clip size, this could be counter balanced by giving it (and the harrier) more spare rounds

nah, those guns, in any hands very much rely on player skill to get the most out of it.

Can't tell you how many players i have played with with harriers that were sub-par. A FOO strategy would be the Novaguard, as it can take down anything until you start getting into the tougher difficultie without much skill.

This is a joke right?

[Credit2team]

born2beagator wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

harrier (and to a lesser extent the reager) is a perfect example of a FOO strategy run amok, the the weapons are simply to easy considering their power, so to make them balanced you need to make them either harder to use or less powerful. The best way to fix the harrier would be to revers its in cover out of cover accuracy/stability (in otherwords fix the bug)

The reager should be at least as heavy as the claymore and have a much smaller clip size, this could be counter balanced by giving it (and the harrier) more spare rounds

Is the Reeger used more than the Claymore?  The Claymore packs a massive whallop in an instant and one of it's supposed limiting factors, that being reload speed is totally negated by reload cancelling.  (Same with other heavy hitting weapons such as some sniper rifles, reload speed should be part of the trade off for damage but it isn't.)

I completely agree with the reload canceling.  It kills the trade offs for the most powerful weapons

reload canceling is a skil in itself, so you've destroyed your own argument. 

[upinya slayin]

Lord Rosario wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Eelectrica wrote...

I think we all know when a character and weapon combo is ridiculously easy.
But sometimes after a long, tiring day at work it's exactly what you want. Something easy to unwind with.

Sometimes luck is out with the store so playing something easy for easy credits helps allieviate some of that frustration too.

Spending well over 1million credits and getting nothing, seems the reward isn't there, so brute force it with an easy mode character combination.

there is nothing wrong with having them in the game for people to have a more accessable game, the issue is when people rely on it too much they wind up losing out on alot of experiances and losing out on developing a skill and feel for the game. and if somehting happens to the kit (a nerf) they can't handle it and they basically give up.

That is, if a new player can get the TGI [new rare card] and a good assault rifle [probably an ulta rare] and genade gear [several rare cards] to go with it before they adopt something else. By the time the've got everything to pull off the OP TGI, they've likely gained quite a bit of skill.

BW gave eveyrone a harrier who dind't have one on 11/07/12. anyone who logged on taht day w/o a harrier got one.

[ISHYGDDT]

Beerfish wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

harrier (and to a lesser extent the reager) is a perfect example of a FOO strategy run amok, the the weapons are simply to easy considering their power, so to make them balanced you need to make them either harder to use or less powerful. The best way to fix the harrier would be to revers its in cover out of cover accuracy/stability (in otherwords fix the bug)

The reager should be at least as heavy as the claymore and have a much smaller clip size, this could be counter balanced by giving it (and the harrier) more spare rounds

Is the Reeger used more than the Claymore?  The Claymore packs a massive whallop in an instant and one of it's supposed limiting factors, that being reload speed is totally negated by reload cancelling.  (Same with other heavy hitting weapons such as some sniper rifles, reload speed should be part of the trade off for damage but it isn't.)

Let's use facts shall we?  With reload cancel, you get one shot off every 2 seconds with the Claymore.  That's it.  More than enough time for a stray marauder to kill you unless you're playing bronze or are a Krogan.  In 2 seconds I can kill 3-5 shielded enemies with the Reegar, and have almost reloaded another 22 round clip.

I don't share walrusx'es hate of the Harrier, in fact I use it quite often, but it is also a much more powerful weapon vs. both mooks and bosses for the same exact reason.  The only downside vs. Claymore is slightly more exposure.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:48 .

[Windfall27]

The thing is that TGI + Harrier doesn't fall into that FOO strategy they mention. Once you've unlocked it you can keep using it over and over again all the way up to Platinum because you don't have many better options. Sure, the GI might be considered more offensively powerful or the Kroguard much harder to kill, but the TGI has both to the extent that it doesn't need anything.

Real "crutch" characters are the bulky ones like the Krogans and to some extent the Geth Trooper & Destroyer. If you lack skill, you will get downed all the time as a Geth and your score will suffer. The classes that are still pretty powerful but much harder to down will net much better scores because they're easier. I'll freely admit when I'm tired and can't be bothered, those are the classes I go to because their power to skill ratio is so high.

If you're the kind of person that needs to play Kroguard on Bronze, then you're going to have a bad time... but it all depends on how you view score vs actually being alive in terms of enjoyment.

[mpompeo27]

kaileena_sands wrote...

 Heheh, video is fun, Extra credit is quite fun and reasonable as a whole. I just don't see why we should drag the TGI (again) into this, I have seen like 2 TGI on gold in two weeks of play.  

What ExCr doesn't account for (even though he mentions it in a way) is that many of those players that would potentially play all the time with kits like the TGI on gold/plat, are never ever (even without it) become as passionate and interested in the ME MP as most BSNers (like us). They are going to play it for a bit, then leave it. They are not interested in the in-depth mechanics and all the potential fun you can have with other kits. They want a bit of fun with the game, then it's the next one.

And that's totally OKAY. I do this with most games. I've played a lot of games in my life, but most of the time super casually. ME MP is one of the few games that I've poured in so much time into trying to "master", because I just love it so much. But should everyone? Nope. But meanwhile they will want to play gold. So let them have their TGI so that my back doesn't have to hurt from carrying them too much. xD

It could be argued that the higher difficulty levels in any game - in this case gold and platinum - are not intended for such casual players. The casual players that you speak of should find gold and platinum to be excessively difficult regardless of what class/weapon they use. Granted I still don't find the TGI or any other kit to be OP, but I find your logic to be flawed.

[Cyonan]

mpompeo27 wrote...

It could be argued that the higher difficulty levels in any game - in this case gold and platinum - are not intended for such casual players. The casual players that you speak of should find gold and platinum to be excessively difficult regardless of what class/weapon they use. Granted I still don't find the TGI or any other kit to be OP, but I find your logic to be flawed.

If this is the case then Gold needs to be reworked, because I see plenty of casuals in my pugs doing just fine on Gold without the TGI or Kroguard. That could be argued, but it would be a flawed argument.

TGI is actually one of the rarer characters for me to see on PC pugging in Gold. The ones who use it are usually(not always, but at least 90% of the time) the ones who need to top the scoreboard and ragemissle a spawn when I'm beating them with my Justicar + Argus.

[Original Twigman]

Cyonan wrote...

mpompeo27 wrote...

It could be argued that the higher difficulty levels in any game - in this case gold and platinum - are not intended for such casual players. The casual players that you speak of should find gold and platinum to be excessively difficult regardless of what class/weapon they use. Granted I still don't find the TGI or any other kit to be OP, but I find your logic to be flawed.

If this is the case then Gold needs to be reworked, because I see plenty of casuals in my pugs doing just fine on Gold without the TGI or Kroguard. That could be argued, but it would be a flawed argument.

TGI is actually one of the rarer characters for me to see on PC pugging in Gold. The ones who use it are usually(not always, but at least 90% of the time) the ones who need to top the scoreboard and ragemissle a spawn when I'm beating them with my Justicar + Argus.

*pounds fist with other argus user*

[orehlol]

 biower plz
make n00b tubes

[upinya slayin]

what if they made an OP character that is accessable to people with less then 50 hrs only. it would be like a headstart that gets taken away once you get then hang of things

[SeitenHekireki]

It was a very interesting video, but I have to disagree on the "noobs shouldn't use crutch classes" argument you raised. Not because I think you're wrong, but because it's (in my opinion) a bit unrelated to THIS game. Let me elaborate.

The video referred specifically to competitive MP games. In these games, if you rely on a "FOO", you WILL get squashed by better players at some time. At that point, you may quit the game etc., etc... ME3 is co-op, so a "noob" could be using the TGI or the Kroguard without ANY negative consequence EVER. Therefore, the video is not directly related to the "crutch character" argument.

To demonstrate, I'll use myself as an example. My first few successful gold matches were with the Kroguard, and soon after I changed to the TGI (after I'd been informed about build ideas). These matches were PUGs, so I dominated the scoreboard, with little skill required (my teammates were worse, but let's not go there ). Later on, I played with some bsn'ers, who were exceptional, still using my TGI. I was able to keep up with them and score quite well (of course not 1st). Scoring aside, I wasn't a burden to the team and the match went smoothly.

So, why should I change kits and stop using the TGI ???? I could be playing him forever and encounter no problem. After a while though, I did try other kits for variety, and I love it. However, even now, when I am undeniably better than back then, the TGI is still the kit that gets me my personal highest scores. Granted, I'm still not as experienced as some guys in here, but you get my point I hope.

Modifié par SeitenHekireki, 21 janvier 2013 - 11:23 .