17 réponses à ce sujet

[Armados]

I am typically a warrior type player in all RPG style games.  I don't like hanging back too much or feeling like wet tissue paper when I get attacked.  That said, I focused on the soldier in the beginning and I have played through all the ME games several times so far on the highest difficulty with different classes.  With ME1, I played Vanguard, Infiltrator, Sentinel and Soldier.  With the heavy armor being the damage mitigator, and using Wrex and Ashley (sometimes Garrus), I just tore through things easily as a soldier.  The abilities seem to contribute nothing for me on insanity.  Overload was not stripping shields very well.  Some of the other abilities while useful I didn't have a need to use against a fully equipped squad of soldiers in combat situations.

In ME2, I played through with the same classes.  Gone were the skills for improving effectiveness of your weapons, which I liked in ME1, as well as using armor to mitigate damage.  Playing through with the soldier was less enjoyable than ME1 for me and felt lacking.  By far the quickest playthrough was the Sentinel.  Popping defenses left and right was a breeze with one use of an abiilty, mitigation of damage was handled by tech armor, and I had taken assault rifle as my choice from the collector mission to gun down unprotected enemies.  I played my Sentinel like my Soldier from ME1, except using powers instead of switching ammo type to strip defenses.  And I don't really have to be on target with those abilities and keep hitting to get rid of the defenses.  On the bigger bosses it would take more but overall, it was a bigger cakewalk than wih the soldier.

Now in ME3, I hit it with the same classes.  Vanguard, Infiltrator, Soldier and Sentinel.  Soldier got extremely boring faster than Vanguard for me.  Only one power to really use consistently and it made the game literrally play in slow motion.  Still not much damage mitigation that set it apart from other classes (Sentinel with Tech armor is good.  Add bonus power, even better).  Sentinel became my favorite because again, I could play it like I played the Soldier in ME1, while utilizing the powers to strip defenses in one or two shots then gun them down and throwing in a power inbetween using the gun for good measure.

I never gave the Adept or Engineer much time.  They felt like wet tissue paper in ME1 and ME2.  Adepts aren't great against synthetic enemies.  Engineers on the other hand I got to like in ME3 MP and it makes me want to try it in SP.  I'll have to decide if I want to go with pets or powers though.

Having said all this, I guess my question is this.  What is there to like for the soldier that it can do that no other class can?  The soldier is a class I really WANT to like but some of the key attributes you see in a warrior-esque class seem completely lost on the soldier after ME1.  I guess maybe it might kick in best against bosses but consistent damage vs the alpha strike of the powers from other classes may be where I am losing something in translation.

[sharkboy421]

Armados wrote...
Having said all this, I guess my question is this.  What is there to like for the soldier that it can do that no other class can?  The soldier is a class I really WANT to like but some of the key attributes you see in a warrior-esque class seem completely lost on the soldier after ME1.  I guess maybe it might kick in best against bosses but consistent damage vs the alpha strike of the powers from other classes may be where I am losing something in translation.

Soldier class, to me, has been about weapon damage and using powers to support your weapon damage.  A soldier's passive specced for damage gives +25% weapon damage and +40% damage to ammo powers (that is +40% of the ammo powers base damage).  Disruptor ammo will tear apart shields and barriers; Cryo is good for crowd control (I always give cryo to my team mates); Incendiary ammo is great for straight damage, making enemies panic and dealing with armor.

Next is Adrenaline Rush which gives a base of +50% weapon damage.  At rank 4 you can choose to either increase this bonus damage to up to 75% or give Shepard 25% damage reduction.  If your only carrying one or two weapons you should be able to spam AR non-stop.  AR and ammo powers are all about increasing your weapon damage and that is what soldier has always been about; your guns.

I think (please correct me if I am wrong in my assumption) part of the disconnect for you is the change in style of the game play from ME1 to ME2-3.  ME1's gameplay was much more rpg-like where as 2 and 3 was much more of a third person shooter.  Thats why in ME1 the soldier class felt like a warrior-type class.  In 2 and 3 the idea of having a tank-ish character is somewhat unnecessary.  Soldier switched from being a "tank/dps" hybrid to a pure damage machine. 

I have found the best way to play soldier is with the mentality of "I will use my guns to kill the enemy before he can kill me."  My playstyle in both 2 and 3 revolves around using my squaddmates as basically semi-autonomous drones who use powers on command to weaken the enemy while I provide the killing power.  I do agree that soldier lost some of the "tank" feeling it had in ME1, I feel it made up for it by having much greater killing power.

I hope I was able to answer some of your questions but if not or you have more I'd be happy to help out anyway I can.

[Drayce333]

ME1 classes were a bit different. Soldier - unstoppable machine, Vanguard - close combat master, Infiltrator - sniper, Engineer - debuffer/medic, Adept - crowd control, Sentinel - team support.
Vanguard and Infiltrator stay truest to there ME1 likeness in the whole trilogy while everything else changed somewhat.

Anyways Soldier is all about weapon damage. Stack as much as you can get and pick up a good Assault Rifle.

The Sentinel is all about tankyness/protection, Thus "Sentinel" but they also are a hybrid class and have flexibility. Seems to me OP you aren't much of a "warrior" player after all. You like hybrids.

[capn233]

In Mass Effect, Soldier was a weapon master in that he got all the weapon skills, but really his role was more "tank" since he could get heavy armor, and he had Immunity. Infiltrator could do better weapon damage with the pistol or sniper rifle, but didn't tank as well because Immunity was only paired with medium armor. Sentinel was one of the better classes in this game, IMO, since you had most of the best powers, and the best weapon skill out of the box. The only exception really is Barrier, which is not as good as Immunity, but is still ok.

In Mass Effect 2, Solider moved more towards a weapon DPS class that could tank somewhat if you took Hardened Adrenaline Rush. You got all the weapon training save SMGs, and your power skillset was really all supplemental to your weapons with the exception of Concussive Shot, which was terrible. Sentinel moved up into the tank role with Tech Armor, and arguably late game Vanguard was more of a tank than Soldier as well. Infiltrator got more burst damage, so essentially lost to Soldier in pure weapon dps, but had decent powers for a little more CC than a Soldier.

Mass Effect 3 has had a bizarre path for the soldier. For the vanilla soldier, you aren't really great at tanking, you don't have as much practical weapon dps as the Infiltrator. You don't really get enough weight capacity to justify carrying 4 niche weapons (not to mention there aren't really many decent niche weapons anyway), and you had to rely on Incendiary Explosive Burst for a large chunk of "weapon" DPS. With the change to Fire Explosions, Concussive Shot becomes a lot more valuable, since Amplified it will both prime and detonate Fire Explosions. Unfortunately, that sort of pushes you into a gimmick style where you are spamming CS all over the place. Sentinel is probably the second best class in the game, although he really doesn't tank quite as well as a Novaguard (immunity frames, charge...). He does get to abuse biotic combos though.

Modifié par capn233, 22 janvier 2013 - 08:03 .

[MurderHouse]

I classed Soldier in ME3 on Normal and was a wrecking machine, go through on Hard, no problem.

[Armados]

sharkboy421 wrote...
I think (please correct me if I am wrong in my assumption) part of the disconnect for you is the change in style of the game play from ME1 to ME2-3. ME1's gameplay was much more rpg-like where as 2 and 3 was much more of a third person shooter. Thats why in ME1 the soldier class felt like a warrior-type class. In 2 and 3 the idea of having a tank-ish character is somewhat unnecessary. Soldier switched from being a "tank/dps" hybrid to a pure damage machine.

I think you nailed it. It seemed like they redefining the way classes are by eliminating the traditional roles other games have been using for decades.

Drayce333 wrote...
Seems to me OP you aren't much of a "warrior" player after all. You like hybrids.

Yes and no. I like versatility but not collapsing when things glance my way. In nearly all RPGs now, I go with warrior melee DPS over rogue DPS (ranged or close). I like being able to hold my own while still contributing to the group.

capn233 wrote...
Mass Effect 3 has had a bizarre path for the soldier. For the vanilla soldier, you aren't really great at tanking, you don't have as much practical weapon dps as the Infiltrator. You don't really get enough weight capacity to justify carrying 4 niche weapons (not to mention there aren't really many decent niche weapons anyway), and you had to really on Incendiary Explosive Burst for a large chunk of "weapon" DPS. With the change to Fire Explosions, Concussive Shot becomes a lot more valuable, since Amplified it will both prime and detonate Fire Explosions. Unfortunately, that sort of pushes you into a gimmick style where you are spamming CS all over the place. Sentinel is probably the second best class in the game, although he really doesn't tank quite as well as a Novaguard (immunity frames, charge...). He does get to abuse biotic combos though.

I think in ME3 is where the Soldier lost its appeal for me the most once they refined many of each class' powers and made health and shield the same across the board. Each of them became equal parts 'warrior', some moreso than others. I can, in theory, make an Engineer very warrior-ish especially with bonus powers and do some damn effective damage.

So don't soldiers get the short end of the stick in MP in ME3 now? I only really started trying it out and they don't get ammo powers there. I seem to be rocking it with my salarian engineer and turian engineer. Am I missing something for how they play in MP?

Thanks for the perspectives guys. I appreciate it. It helps.

[Drayce333]

Armados wrote...

I think in ME3 is where the Soldier lost its appeal for me the most once they refined many of each class' powers and made health and shield the same across the board. Each of them became equal parts 'warrior', some moreso than others. I can, in theory, make an Engineer very warrior-ish especially with bonus powers and do some damn effective damage.

You could but every class has a niche in ME3 that it will perform best at.

So don't soldiers get the short end of the stick in MP in ME3 now? I only really started trying it out and they don't get ammo powers there. I seem to be rocking it with my salarian engineer and turian engineer. Am I missing something for how they play in MP?

Thanks for the perspectives guys. I appreciate it. It helps.

You should mostly disregard class in multiplayer at this point and focus on the character. Though yes the soldiers initially sucked hard in MP and have all been significantly buffed overtime.

[brad2240]

ME2 made the Soldier into what I always thought it should be: the weapon master. I always wondered in ME1 why the guy with no real powers (like typical warrior classes in RPGs) did less weapon damage than the hybrid classes, and why everybody had access to the highest DPS weapon in the game, the pistol.

But in ME2 he's clearly the weapons guy. All guns, all the time. That's what I want from a Soldier.

In ME3, unfortunately, the Soldier gets overshadowed. He's still a great class and one of my favorites, but powers got such a massive buff that he falls a bit  behind. He does roll through the game quite easily though.

If you like your Soldiers to be a little more tanky, try taking Fortification as your bonus power. Fully specced for durability it gives 30% DR which stacks with the DR evo of ARush rank 4. This is my favorite Soldier build and it works very well.

Armados wrote...
I never gave the Adept or Engineer much time.  They felt like wet tissue paper in ME1 and ME2.  Adepts aren't great against synthetic enemies.  Engineers on the other hand I got to like in ME3 MP and it makes me want to try it in SP.  I'll have to decide if I want to go with pets or powers though.

I think the bolded part is a misconception. In ME1 biotics owned everything. Organics and synthetics alike were just left floating helplessly regardless of defenses. Seriously, an Adept turned the whole game into a skeet shoot. In ME2, the synthetic enemies are no different, it' just a matter of stripping their protections and then they become your toys. ME3 is just.... blue explosions. Blue explosions everywhere.

Engineers are plain awesome in ME2 & 3, my favorite class. If you liked the Sentinel's abiltiy to deal with all defenses in ME2, you'll like the Engineer's abiltiy to do the same in 3. Add in tech burts, fire explosions and cryo explosions and he's a wrecking machine. Definitely give him a try.

In regards to Soldiers in MP, in my opinion they are a little weak when you're new. You need a decent manifest to make them do well, whereas casters do not and so they seem better early on. Weapons classes really begin to shine as you collect more and better weapons, at least for me. There's a good bit of variation in the different kits. Things like the Turian Soldier, the Quarian and the Destroyer are real weapons masters, and then you have kits like the Batarian and Vorcha that play almost more like casters. And there's Krogan if you want to be a pure tank. Experiment and you'll find something you like.

[jasonxxsatanna]

I feel the OP, when I 1st picked up ME2 , I missed the rpg elements of ME1......
I am a true fan of the soldier, I grew to love the ME2 version, but I think the ME3 version is a combine effort to bring both the 1 and 2nd incarnations together.
I spec'd my solider to take the Hardening evo , and the shield boost evo , to give me the sheild boost and immunity effect similar to ME1, with so many armor pieces and shadow broker upgrades you will make up for the dmg output, as for the MP H.sol , he can hang with the best,ppl I believe, feel he is traditional and boring, but I rock with him in gold and silver games, using the AR for damage output and shield boost when I'm in the red

[capn233]

brad2240 wrote...

In regards to Soldiers in MP, in my opinion they are a little weak when you're new. You need a decent manifest to make them do well, whereas casters do not and so they seem better early on.

Yes.  In the current state of the game, both Human Soldier and Destroyer are some of the best classes, but that is if you have a decent gun to take advantage of it.  Moreso with the vanilla soldier, since you can't tank like Destroyer, nor do you have the stun resistance.  If you are just starting in MP, you can sort of get away with an H Soldier running a Mantis and using ARush reload, then transition to something like the Claymore when you unlock it.  Eventually you will want the Harrier since it is probably the best all around gun with H Soldier, regardless of the fact that Cyonan will tell you about how you can potentially outdamage a poor QFI with a Javelin (over 2 shots compared with 1 cloaked shot...).

This is my Human Soldier build (not developed by me or anything, lots of people use it)... take Drill or AP ammo.

Geth Trooper is something of an exception since Flamer w/ Hunter Mode and Networked AI can do a whole lot of damage (>25k to armor in one cast if spec'd correctly).  I prefer to play him with my Javelin X now though, ever since Mi-chan started talking about it.  You can one-shot a Phantom on Gold with him (via several different build / equipment combos... not possible at all on Platinum though).

Modifié par capn233, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:43 .

[Abraham_uk]

Adrenaline Rush [with hardening and shield boost evolutions]
+
any of the following powers (barrier, defence matrix or fortification)
=
A very durable soldier



Don't carry too many guns.
This build relys on adrenaline rush spam.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 22 janvier 2013 - 08:29 .

[Armados]

brad2240 wrote...

If you like your Soldiers to be a little more tanky, try taking Fortification as your bonus power. Fully specced for durability it gives 30% DR which stacks with the DR evo of ARush rank 4. This is my favorite Soldier build and it works very well.

Bonus power though.  It would apply to all classes that take it.  For the right classes, in ME3, powers like that provided me with a secondary boost to power damage further benefitting it.  I'll likely take defense matrix for an engineer.

brad2240 wrote...

I think the bolded part is a misconception. In ME1 biotics owned everything. Organics and synthetics alike were just left floating helplessly regardless of defenses. Seriously, an Adept turned the whole game into a skeet shoot. In ME2, the synthetic enemies are no different, it' just a matter of stripping their protections and then they become your toys. ME3 is just.... blue explosions. Blue explosions everywhere.

Engineers are plain awesome in ME2 & 3, my favorite class. If you liked the Sentinel's abiltiy to deal with all defenses in ME2, you'll like the Engineer's abiltiy to do the same in 3. Add in tech burts, fire explosions and cryo explosions and he's a wrecking machine. Definitely give him a try.

Yes but engineers sucked in ME2 for stripping biotic barriers. Sentinels could do both with some tanking and doing decent damage.  ME3 allows for Engineers to strip those biotic barriers more efficiently by themselves now.

brad2240 wrote...
In regards to Soldiers in MP, in my opinion they are a little weak when you're new. You need a decent manifest to make them do well, whereas casters do not and so they seem better early on. Weapons classes really begin to shine as you collect more and better weapons, at least for me. There's a good bit of variation in the different kits. Things like the Turian Soldier, the Quarian and the Destroyer are real weapons masters, and then you have kits like the Batarian and Vorcha that play almost more like casters. And there's Krogan if you want to be a pure tank. Experiment and you'll find something you like.

I actually made a soldier for MP last night.  I also made the Battlefield one too since I got the class unlocked.   I made one have tanking on his adreneline rush and another for damage.  I so got massacred.  I watched as another soldier on the team just cut through everything like butter with his cerebus harrier which I assume is a rare weapon to get.

[brad2240]

Armados wrote...
Bonus power though.  It would apply to all classes that take it.  For the right classes, in ME3, powers like that provided me with a secondary boost to power damage further benefitting it.  I'll likely take defense matrix for an engineer.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. You don't want to use Fortification because it's a bonus power? Am I misunderstanding you?

And, if you don't know, Fortification increases the damage of your Conc Shot and Frags, as well as your ammo powers and including the damage of Incendiary Burst. It's as good a fit for Soldiers as Defense Matrix is for Engineers, IMO.

Yes but engineers sucked in ME2 for stripping biotic barriers. Sentinels could do both with some tanking and doing decent damage.  ME3 allows for Engineers to strip those biotic barriers more efficiently by themselves now.

Aside from the fact that barriers are the rarest defense type in ME2, you have a SMG which is an excellent weapon for stripping them. And several squadmates have Warp/Reave to help out too. Barriers are never really a problem. 

I actually made a soldier for MP last night.  I also made the Battlefield one too since I got the class unlocked.   I made one have tanking on his adreneline rush and another for damage.  I so got massacred.  I watched as another soldier on the team just cut through everything like butter with his cerebus harrier which I assume is a rare weapon to get.

That's what I'm talking about. Weapon-based classes will struggle until you've filled out your manifest some more. If you have them, the Turian Soldier (original, not Havoc) or Quarian Soldier can make pretty much any weapon good with their Marksman power. But I stuck with the casters for quite a while, until I was comfortable with my weapons collection.

The Harrier is and ultra-rare and arguably the best gun in the game. I see lots of them, but don't have one yet myself. In fact, it's the only gun I have yet to unlock.

[jasonxxsatanna]

@Armados, what weapons did you place on your Soldier ?
What lvl are they?
What mode were you playing on, bronze , silver or gold
I play my soldier in silver and gold matches , I usually 1st or 2nd place and only using a piranha V with AP, Inc. or drill ammos and what ever shotgun amps I may have.

[Armados]

brad2240 wrote...
And, if you don't know, Fortification increases the damage of your Conc Shot and Frags, as well as your ammo powers and including the damage of Incendiary Burst. It's as good a fit for Soldiers as Defense Matrix is for Engineers, IMO.

Actually, I didn't notice. Thanks for mentioning it. I thought it was only for damage reduction. I didn't notice it had another benefit on top of it like defense matrix and barrier.

brad2240 wrote...
Aside from the fact that barriers are the rarest defense type in ME2, you have a SMG which is an excellent weapon for stripping them. And several squadmates have Warp/Reave to help out too. Barriers are never really a problem.

Collectors have them along with Eclipse mercs. I just like having versatility in my own characters so I don't sit around with my thumb up my ass where none of my abilities work while everyone else does all the work for me. I was tempted by the cost reduction of an engineer for upgrades but the lower health I saw for engineers in ME2 also bugged me. I can be fickle in what I like. Maybe once the game progressed and the upgrades kicked in to boost it, it isn't so bad. I haven't gone back to try it yet. 4 playthroughs completing every mission so I want to wait a bit before I go back.

jasonxxsatanna wrote...
What mode were you playing on, bronze , silver or gold
I play my soldier in silver and gold matches , I usually 1st or 2nd place and only using a piranha V with AP, Inc. or drill ammos and what ever shotgun amps I may have.

Bronze and Silver. And only the avenger V for a rifle. I have been focusing credits on unlocking character choices to experiment with the classes to see which ones I'll like. I've fallen away from biotic classes and have been going more towards tech classes as they are suiting my comfort. I spend the odd amount on some expensive item packs and have gotten the odd rare weapon. I only have a couple of weapons at II then the avenger V.

[brad2240]

Armados wrote...
Collectors have them along with Eclipse mercs. I just like having versatility in my own characters so I don't sit around with my thumb up my ass where none of my abilities work while everyone else does all the work for me.

It's never really like that. Even on Collector missions you're constantly casting and not sitting around. Combat Drone, Incinerate, and Cryoblast carry you through those missions pretty well. Really all you lose out on is Overload and AI Hacking. If you got past those defenses as a Soldier, you'll do fine as an Engineer if and when you decide to go for it.

Bronze and Silver. And only the avenger V for a rifle. I have been focusing credits on unlocking character choices to experiment with the classes to see which ones I'll like. I've fallen away from biotic classes and have been going more towards tech classes as they are suiting my comfort. I spend the odd amount on some expensive item packs and have gotten the odd rare weapon. I only have a couple of weapons at II then the avenger V.

Avenger is just not a good weapon in MP. I'd avoid any class that has to rely on it.

I played nothing but the Human Engineer for a long time in MP after I started. It's a fantastic class that can handle anything thrown at you. I'd argue that it's among the top 2 best Engineer kits. It can take you far.

If you start playing with biotics again and/or you want a change of pace, the Human Adept is great also. MP Singularity is miles better than the SP version.

If you're into MP for the long haul, I would suggest buying recruit packs until your common weapons are maxed out. When a weapon or item is maxed, it is removed from the RNG and won't be taking up a more valuable slot in the expensive packs. After I did that, I bought veteran packs until my uncommons were maxed. There's some pretty good stuff in the uncommon weapons. Mattock, Eviscerator, Tempest, Phaeston and Phalanx are all decent weapons that will work well on Silver.

It does take a while to build it up, though, depending on how much you play. But this worked for me and the effort has been worth it.

[Frostmourne86]

Armados, the power damage bonus from Fortification is only possible with the Rank 5 Power/Force evolution - and you have to have it on to keep that bonus.

[jasonxxsatanna]

@Armados, I see your problem with your MP soldier now it is the weapon, the avenger looks cool, sounds cool, but you may as well be throwing spit balls, the damage out put is so weak, if it had a larger clip and a faster ROF it would better.
When the demo 1st dropped I just couldnt understand why I was not killing the enemy, I finally learn that with the Avenger on the soldier its better to use CS ,knock mooks to the ground pop AR then kill them, its a slow process, its also the way I take out phantoms if I dont have the acolyte to strip the barrier.
But you do need a better weapon for the Soldier , I like being up close and personal so a shot gun
Its what I use lately, Wraith or piranha , with a back up smg or pistol, which has been the Hurricane or lotcus lately