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Is the trilogy better off without ME2?


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#1
justafan

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 Mass Effect 2 is my favorite game in the trilogy, but it also causes the most problems in regards to the endings and themes of ME3.  So would the trilogy have been better without it?  Are you better off playing ME1 then going straight to ME3?  Here are some reasons why.

1.  No Harbinger disappointment:  In ME2, Harbinger is the main antagonist.  He is constantly taunting you and sending his collector minions to stop you at every turn.  In ME3, he is nowhere to be seen until the final beam run, and says nothing at all.  His entire role in 3 is limited to a cameo, and a person who never played ME2 wouldn't miss a thing.

2.  The catalyst's logic is more sound:  The original endings were hated mostly because they contained glaring plot holes and inconsistencies.  For one, the catalyst proclaims that "the created will always destroy their creators".  A lot of longtime fans took issue with this because Rannoch allows us to lay the framework for peace between organics and synthetics, in clear contradiction with the catalyst's asserion.  Without ME2, peace would be impossible, and the conflict between organic and synthetic can not be solved.  Furthermore, with the Geth VI, the Geth in general remain unsympathetic, much in line with their ME1 presentation.  Without Legion, the Geth remain genocidal machines in the player's eyes and are consistent with their original purpose as evil enemies.  In this way, not only are the endings improved, but the contrivances of the Rannoch arch make a lot more sense as well.

3.  Cerberus:  In ME1, Cerberus was a rogue black ops organization we knew little about.  In ME3, they were the second coming of the Sith Empire.  In ME2, they were a borderline terrorist organization that had noble goals but little in the way of morality, we got to know them better as well as get a general picture of their numbers and resources.  ME3 blew of the morally gray portrayal of Cerberus in favor of a large villanous force.  While it may not necessarily make more sense for them to go from ME1 Evil black ops to ME3 Evil Empire, it is easier for me to stomach than ME2 somewhat sympathetic gray to ME3 Evil Empire.

4.  ME2 didn't have much impact on ME3 anyways:  Consider this, the only squadmates to return from ME2 were already in ME1.  The most far reaching decisions in the game were made almost entirely in ME1, such as the fate of the original council, Whether Wrex survived to save the council, and the fate of the Rachni Queen.  The ME2 missions really only mattered in side missions if at all, and you get a few surviving secondary characters.  The only ME2 missions that would matter are the ones in regards to the Genophage arch, as Mordin and Maelon's data play an important role there.  Not even Rannoch would be an issue, since as mentioned above, the Geth would have retained their ME1 persona, making the conflict logical.

I love ME2, it is my favorite game on my system and should have been the model for its sequel, but ME3 simplifies so much and makes ME2 seem almost detrimental to the final installment.  ME2 did such a good job deconstructing the themes of the first game and adding a large swath of gray, that when ME3 game along with its black and white view of almost everything, the gray that was so great about ME2 became a hinderance.

Modifié par justafan, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:29 .


#2
Guest_Calinstel_*

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Only thing that would make it better if ME2 had never happened was the geth/quarian conflict.
ME2 showed it was possible, even if just a tiny bit, to make peace with the 'true' geth. The introduction of the 'heretic' geth was an opening for confrontations even in ME3 as they quarians and 'true' geth fought against the common enemy to both species. After all, the 'heretics' were even monitoring the 'true' geth in ME2.

But ME3 took it all away with a ridiculous war that could have been averted had the ME2 arc been allowed to actually be expanded on.

#3
jstme

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I feel that if there is a game that trilogy would be better off, it will be ME3. ME2 does not really progress the main story - this is true. But it has several themes that are not mentioned at all in ME3 but they could have been used in different ME3.
like: Dark energy. Thanix. Collector base with reaper tech....
Forget this, there are 6 months that are not used. Shepard sits for 6 months doing nothing while knowing that reapers will pop up any minute now - according to ME3.
And as for catalyst logic - why "synthetics would wipe all organic life in the galaxy" sounds logical to you if rebelling synthetics clearly did not do it before catalyst and its solutions popped up?
Anyway- ME3 is the real problem ,op. Not ME2.

#4
Ticonderoga117

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So wait, to fix ME3, we ditch the game that came first? That's a horrible idea. Here's a good idea, create a third volume in the franchise that fits with what we have!

#5
Galbrant

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

So wait, to fix ME3, we ditch the game that came first? That's a horrible idea. Here's a good idea, create a third volume in the franchise that fits with what we have!


True dat.

#6
Fifmut

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I think the trilogy is better off without ME3.

#7
justafan

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

So wait, to fix ME3, we ditch the game that came first? That's a horrible idea. Here's a good idea, create a third volume in the franchise that fits with what we have!


For the record, I really dislike ME3 for it's simplification of the Geth, Quarians, Rachni, Cerberus, Council, Salarians, Legion, Gerrel, Harbinger, TIM etc, etc, etc (I can go on and on).

However, we have to acknowledge that it exists, and we can't change it.  I believe ME2 was the best game in the trilogy, and had ME3 continued in the same spirit as ME2, it would have been my favorite game of all time.  Unfortunately, the creators of ME3 seemed to forget everything they did in ME2, so the only way for the final instalment of the trilogy to make sense is to ditch ME2.  Without ME2, ME3 is actually mildly consistent with ME1.

If we could get an alternative ME3, I would take it, but that just isn't going to happen.  Perhaps as an alternative you can just end the series at ME2?

Modifié par justafan, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:27 .


#8
EpicBoot2daFace

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ME2 gave us a lot of memorable characters if nothing else.

#9
78stonewobble

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Pftttt uhm ... There's some merit to those points, but dag nabbit I enjoy me2 too much for that and prioritises that over "other stuff".

#10
Guest_john_sheparrd_*

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no because me 2 is a great game

#11
Meltemph

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ME2 was the model of what to do.

ME2 showed that if you are going to have a weak plot, make sure to focus on the Mass Effect Universe/setting instead of the main plot(Illium, Omega, Tuchanka, Quarians, Geth and ect). ME3 did the opposite, made the main plot the priority and place the Mass Effect universe on teh back burner, outside of what was already developed from the previous 2 games.

Problem with doing that was, the ME3 reaper story arc wasn't much better then ME2 really.

#12
Ticonderoga117

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justafan wrote...
For the record, I really dislike ME3 for it's simplification of the Geth, Quarians, Rachni, Cerberus, Council, Salarians, Legion, Gerrel, Harbinger, TIM etc, etc, etc (I can go on and on).

However, we have to acknowledge that it exists, and we can't change it.  I believe ME2 was the best game in the trilogy, and had ME3 continued in the same spirit as ME2, it would have been my favorite game of all time.  Unfortunately, the creators of ME3 seemed to forget everything they did in ME2, so the only way for the final instalment of the trilogy to make sense is to ditch ME2.  Without ME2, ME3 is actually mildly consistent with ME1.

If we could get an alternative ME3, I would take it, but that just isn't going to happen.


So we disregard ME2? Isn't that against what you said? If anything, we regard ME3 as non-canon, due to what has come before.

Even still, ME3 disregards portions of ME1. ME3 is the fly in the ointment. Not ME1 or ME2.

#13
Lady Sif

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

So wait, to fix ME3, we ditch the game that came first? That's a horrible idea. Here's a good idea, create a third volume in the franchise that fits with what we have!



#14
teh DRUMPf!!

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 ME2 as a story was like a team drafting a lot of big-name college players that lacked the ability to continue success as pros. It made fans happy, but was not good for the long-run.


ME3 abandoning the plot (or lack thereof) was like said team cutting those bad players.

#15
Belisarius25

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I think a better way to phrase it is that the trilogy really needed better editorial/writing control to ensure each installment worked well with each other and the overall narrative worked better and didn't feel so disjointed. There's too many jarring changes (Cerberus' status, for example), inability to follow up on plot points or characters (i.e. introducing too many new squadmates/romances/etc. in ME2 given where they evidently wanted to go in ME3), and so on.

There's the saying 'greater than the sum of its parts', in some ways the trilogy - when taken as a whole - is less than the sum of its parts for me, mainly because of the various issues from changing writers, plans, etc. too many times.

Modifié par Belisarius25, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:34 .


#16
Ticonderoga117

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

 ME2 as a story was like a team drafting a lot of big-name college players that lacked the ability to continue success as pros. It made fans happy, but was not good for the long-run.


ME3 abandoning the plot (or lack thereof) was like said team cutting those bad players.


How though? The Reapers, before ME3, were decently competent in cleanign the Galaxy of advanced tech they didn't want to leave behind. There would be no "Super awesome device that can stop them" left behind, because again, they are competent.

Our best chance was to unite the galaxy. Making a team of the best the galaxy has to offer is a way to start this. Why ME3 failed to pick this up is beyond me.

#17
LTKerr

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

So wait, to fix ME3, we ditch the game that came first? That's a horrible idea. Here's a good idea, create a third volume in the franchise that fits with what we have!


+10000

#18
justafan

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

justafan wrote...
For the record, I really dislike ME3 for it's simplification of the Geth, Quarians, Rachni, Cerberus, Council, Salarians, Legion, Gerrel, Harbinger, TIM etc, etc, etc (I can go on and on).

However, we have to acknowledge that it exists, and we can't change it.  I believe ME2 was the best game in the trilogy, and had ME3 continued in the same spirit as ME2, it would have been my favorite game of all time.  Unfortunately, the creators of ME3 seemed to forget everything they did in ME2, so the only way for the final instalment of the trilogy to make sense is to ditch ME2.  Without ME2, ME3 is actually mildly consistent with ME1.

If we could get an alternative ME3, I would take it, but that just isn't going to happen.


So we disregard ME2? Isn't that against what you said? If anything, we regard ME3 as non-canon, due to what has come before.

Even still, ME3 disregards portions of ME1. ME3 is the fly in the ointment. Not ME1 or ME2.



The only thing I am proposing is that the series would be more consistent without ME2.  Actually, no, I guess what I should be saying is that ME3 would be vastly improved by the lack of ME2, ME1 is fine on its own, and ME2 did a good enough job continuing the series.  Both ME2 and ME3 work as sequels to ME1, however, ME3 is horrible as a sequel to ME2, and since only ME3 provides a conclusion to the Reaper conflict, we must disregard the best of the series for the conclusion to make more sense from a story point of view.  The story is far more consistent going straight from ME1 to ME3, it is not necessarily better.

Modifié par justafan, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:40 .


#19
thepringle

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ME 2 (at least in my opinion) was the best in the series. I think that Mass Effect would be better simply without ME 3.

#20
Deathsaurer

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justafan wrote...

1.  No Harbinger disappointment:  In ME2, Harbinger is the main antagonist.  He is constantly taunting you and sending his collector minions to stop you at every turn.


If at every turn you mean the all of 4 times (bonus points for the Arrival chat) we ran into the Collectors sure. I spent most of the game shooting up gangs for some reason.

#21
xAmilli0n

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Well, ME2 really does nothing for the story. While I wouldn't say we are better off without it (there are definitely great elements that should always be included in the story), it definitely feels superfluous in the grand scheme of things.

#22
justafan

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Deathsaurer wrote...

justafan wrote...

1.  No Harbinger disappointment:  In ME2, Harbinger is the main antagonist.  He is constantly taunting you and sending his collector minions to stop you at every turn.


If at every turn you mean the all of 4 times (bonus points for the Arrival chat) we ran into the Collectors sure. I spent most of the game shooting up gangs for some reason.



True you only encounter him 4 times, but there is a reason everyone knows "assuming direct control".  He is a large presence in the game.

#23
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Not entirely, but a good bit of it.

#24
Tasker

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Fifmut wrote...

I think the trilogy is better off without ME3.


QFT

#25
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How about we keep the three games and forget the mutated growth on ME3 we call 'the ending.'