426 réponses à ce sujet

[MassStorm]

Kabooooom wrote...

3. Cerberus: In ME1, Cerberus was a rogue black ops organization we knew little about. In ME3, they were the second coming of the Sith Empire. In ME2, they were a borderline terrorist organization that had noble goals but little in the way of morality, we got to know them better as well as get a general picture of their numbers and resources. ME3 blew of the morally gray portrayal of Cerberus in favor of a large villanous force. While it may not necessarily make more sense for them to go from ME1 Evil black ops to ME3 Evil Empire, it is easier for me to stomach than ME2 somewhat sympathetic gray to ME3 Evil Empire.

Without reading the books, Cerberus in ME3 is a giant WTF - and that is no excuse on Bioware's behalf, they shouldn't have to rely on alternative media to tell a story in a game - didn't think I had to clarify but one time this moron flamed me here because they thought I was defending Bioware's ****ty writing.

Basically, between the end of ME2 and ME3 the Alliance virtually wipes out Cerberus - every major base is destroyed and TIM himself is nearly killed, narrowly escaping with his life. Now, they know the Reaper invasion is imminent and they have access to the Collector Base/remains and the Omega-4 relay. There is only one way to survive the coming invasion - they begin recruiting or kidnapping large numbers of people, ironically similar to the Collectors, and implanting them with Reaper tech to create a rapid army on demand. This played directly into the Reaper's hands, and one could even argue in favor of indoctrination prior to this since they directly opposed the Alliance every step of the way in ME3.

So that's basically it, the story outside of the games set them up to either become the Sith empire in ME3 or become eradicated. Bioware chose the sith route, since that keeps them in the story. Hope that helped elucidate the Cerberus backstory a little.

Sorry if i ask but i'm really curious. In which book you find these informations of Cerberus being almost destroyed at the end of ME2??? I'm really interested.

[JBPBRC]

klarabella wrote...

Most of my ME2 members are nobodys. A galaxy is just huge. There are way too many individuals for your squad of random 12 mercs to be considered remotely important enough to achieve something ... or badass enough to be irreplaceable assets. Short of silly comic book logic, of course.

Bioware tends to use the silly comic book logic. A good chunk of Shepard's companions get random promotions to super-important status. Best example? Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. Wrex becomes King Krogan. Murdering psychopath Jack (before people say, BUT I CHANGED HER WITH THE POWAH OF LOVE, yeah, well a lot of people didn't wuv her and made her go all renegade and she still ends up in that position) becomes head biotic instructor of Grissom Academy. Garrus goes from just some C-Sec officer to damn near Turian royalty.

All of this happens in the span of 2+ years. Most of this happens within 6 months. <_<

Modifié par JBPBRC, 26 janvier 2013 - 12:30 .

[KingZayd]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

spirosz wrote...

fainmaca wrote...

My point is, it was up to ME3 to make ALL of the story that had come before matter. That's the point of a conclusion to a story. Themes, choices and characters NEEDED to be kept relevant and brought to a satisfying end-point for it to do its job. Instead, ME3 chose to tell its own story as an entirely independant beast. Previous ideas and plot points were cast aside or neglected in favour of the mission of the day.

^

This.

ME2 was consistent with what came before. ME3 was not. The trilogy is better off without ME3.

While I won't dispute that the trilogy is better off without ME3, I find it rather hard to believe someone actually thinks ME1 and ME2 are consistent. ME2 retcons ME1 within 5 minutes with thermal clips.

It doesn't really retcon it. They do provide an explanation for the change, as unsatifying as it is. They really shouldn't have introduced thermal clips though :/

The story is fairly consistent anyway. 

[JBPBRC]

klarabella wrote...

The Sith route doesn't really explain where the ressources came from. I mean who build the ships? Weapons? Armors? All within 6 months? On a huge scale! And who the hell paid for this?

Clearly TIM has secretly stolen the Star Forge from the Star Wars universe. Its the only obvious answer.

[Steelcan]

JBPBRC wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Most of my ME2 members are nobodys. A galaxy is just huge. There are way too many individuals for your squad of random 12 mercs to be considered remotely important enough to achieve something ... or badass enough to be irreplaceable assets. Short of silly comic book logic, of course.

Bioware tends to use the silly comic book logic. A good chunk of Shepard's companions get random promotions to super-important status. Best example? Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. Wrex becomes King Krogan. Murdering psychopath Jack (before people say, BUT I CHANGED HER WITH THE POWAH OF LOVE, yeah, well a lot of people didn't wuv her and made her go all renegade and she still ends up in that position) becomes head biotic instructor of Grissom Academy. Garrus goes from just some C-Sec officer to damn near Turian royalty.

All of this happens in the span of 2+ years. Most of this happens within 6 months. <_<

. Well Wrex was well explained, he went back to Tuchunka and united the clans.  The rest don't really make sense.  Maybe Garrus by a extreme stretch of logic

[JBPBRC]

Steelcan wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Most of my ME2 members are nobodys. A galaxy is just huge. There are way too many individuals for your squad of random 12 mercs to be considered remotely important enough to achieve something ... or badass enough to be irreplaceable assets. Short of silly comic book logic, of course.

Bioware tends to use the silly comic book logic. A good chunk of Shepard's companions get random promotions to super-important status. Best example? Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. Wrex becomes King Krogan. Murdering psychopath Jack (before people say, BUT I CHANGED HER WITH THE POWAH OF LOVE, yeah, well a lot of people didn't wuv her and made her go all renegade and she still ends up in that position) becomes head biotic instructor of Grissom Academy. Garrus goes from just some C-Sec officer to damn near Turian royalty.

All of this happens in the span of 2+ years. Most of this happens within 6 months. <_<

. Well Wrex was well explained, he went back to Tuchunka and united the clans.  The rest don't really make sense.  Maybe Garrus by a extreme stretch of logic

Wrex was well-explained. Thankfully he was introduced as King Krogan in ME2. If he had pulled say, an Ashley/Kaidan on us and was all like NO I'M NOT GONNA TALK TO YOU ZERO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT KTHAXBAI and then suddenly popped up in ME3 as King Krogan I...yeah.

[nos_astra]

JBPBRC wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Most of my ME2 members are nobodys. A galaxy is just huge. There are way too many individuals for your squad of random 12 mercs to be considered remotely important enough to achieve something ... or badass enough to be irreplaceable assets. Short of silly comic book logic, of course.

Bioware tends to use the silly comic book logic. A good chunk of Shepard's companions get random promotions to super-important status. Best example? Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. Wrex becomes King Krogan. Murdering psychopath Jack (before people say, BUT I CHANGED HER WITH THE POWAH OF LOVE, yeah, well a lot of people didn't wuv her and made her go all renegade and she still ends up in that position) becomes head biotic instructor of Grissom Academy. Garrus goes from just some C-Sec officer to damn near Turian royalty.

All of this happens in the span of 2+ years. Most of this happens within 6 months. <_<

It's funny, isn't it. And people object to the VS characters being promoted in rank and becoming Spectres. While that's certainly stretching it they're not even close to being the worst offenders. 

I could only shake my head at Liara, Garrus and Jack. That's just insane. 

There is a pretty intriguing explanation for Wrex who was basically blackmailing everyone into following him by controlling the females. So I'd willing to let that one slide. (Although the genophage arc becomes really lame if Wrex is alive. Oh look, Wrex and Eve will rebuild the krogan society and make them unaggressive with the power of AWESOME. Yay!)

Modifié par klarabella, 26 janvier 2013 - 12:46 .

[KingZayd]

JBPBRC wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Most of my ME2 members are nobodys. A galaxy is just huge. There are way too many individuals for your squad of random 12 mercs to be considered remotely important enough to achieve something ... or badass enough to be irreplaceable assets. Short of silly comic book logic, of course.

Bioware tends to use the silly comic book logic. A good chunk of Shepard's companions get random promotions to super-important status. Best example? Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. Wrex becomes King Krogan. Murdering psychopath Jack (before people say, BUT I CHANGED HER WITH THE POWAH OF LOVE, yeah, well a lot of people didn't wuv her and made her go all renegade and she still ends up in that position) becomes head biotic instructor of Grissom Academy. Garrus goes from just some C-Sec officer to damn near Turian royalty.

All of this happens in the span of 2+ years. Most of this happens within 6 months. <_<

For the ME1 crew, I think stopping Saren (the most dangerous spectre), along with an army of Geth and Krogan from taking over the Citadel tends to look good on your CV.

For the ME2 crew, I'm not so sure. Working with Cerberus against a threat the galaxy hasn't acknowledged doesn't look so good.

Modifié par KingZayd, 26 janvier 2013 - 12:54 .

[Ticonderoga117]

klarabella wrote...
It's not ME3's job to retroactively give ME2 a point. 

By the end of ME1 we knew that the Reapers were out there, trying to reach the galaxy. They were a destructive force that used the Citadel and the relay network as a trap for a surprise decapitation strike. In one fell swoop they removed the galaxy's government and disabled any means of travel or communication between star systems. We knew that the Citadel was itself a mass relay and controlling the relay network. We knew that the Keepers were the Citadel's caretakers and had the means to study them more closely. We knew about Ilos where a bunch of Prothean scientists managed to actually survive the Reaper invasion (!) in stasis pods for hundreds of years, built their own mass relay, hooked it into the network (!) and wrote a program to override the Citadel's security protocols. We were also informed that the Reapers use the Citadels records to find the homeworlds and colonies.

I don't know about you but that sounds like solid information and gives me several options to prepare. Use the research of the Protheans and Chorban to understand the Citadel and the keepers. Remove the galactic seat from the Citadel. Remove all records from the Citadel. Fortify the Citadel if possible. Gain control of the relay network (even if it's only partly). Create farms of stasis pods where people could possibly survive for centuries.

By the end of ME2 all of this is ignored and instead replaced with the Collector base. Which will provide Reaper tech.
What sort of tech? *shrug* What exactly could we use this for? *shrug* We now knew the Reapers harvest to reproduce and were witnesses as to how this happens. How might this information useful? *shrug*

ME1 gave itself a point and can solidly stand on its own. 
ME2 ignored what was the point of ME1 and refused to have one on its own.

*snip*

Most of my ME2 members are nobodys. A galaxy is just huge. There are way too many individuals for your squad of random 12 mercs to be considered remotely important enough to achieve something ... or badass enough to be irreplaceable assets. Short of silly comic book logic, of course.

It's not ME3's job to completely ignore ME1 and ME2 either.

Remember, for all of ME2, we are completely off the official grid really. The Council is dealing with us at a distance, the Alliance more so. There's no reaon none of that Citadel exploration could've been done while we were off throwing a monkey wrench into the Reaper's plan. Hell, that could've made some interesting missions early in ME3. Do some exploration like missions that you think would help us fight the Reapers, but you can only pick so many before the Reapers come calling.

As for ME2's ending, all of that SHOULD have been addressed by ME3. It's all there though, just because ME3 ignored it doesn't mean ME2 dropped the ball.

And you're crew is full of nobodys? The hell? Let's break this down some:
Garrus: Has connections to the upper echelons of the Turian hierarchy. Becomes the advisor to the Primarch.
Grunt: Helps solidify Wrex's position. Leads best commando outfit.
Jack: No big connections, but one of the most destructive biotics.
Jacob: Connections to Cerberus.
Miranda: Ditto, but also has more connections and knowledge.
Kasumi: Best thief. No connections but still helpful.
Legion: Your connection to all of the Geth.
Tali: Becomes an Admiral for the Quarians.
Mordin: Connection to STG and the Salarians.
Samara: Connection to the Asari.
Thane: The Hanar. Also, best assassin. Could be helpful to remove "threats".
Zaeed: The Blue Sons, or just a badass with a gun. Always useful to have.

Then let's not forget Liara as the freakin' Shadow Broker. The Shadow Broker! "Give me five minutes and I can start a war."!

Unifying the Galaxy after ME2 early ME3 looks very possible with your crew of "nobody's".

[JBPBRC]

klarabella wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Most of my ME2 members are nobodys. A galaxy is just huge. There are way too many individuals for your squad of random 12 mercs to be considered remotely important enough to achieve something ... or badass enough to be irreplaceable assets. Short of silly comic book logic, of course.

Bioware tends to use the silly comic book logic. A good chunk of Shepard's companions get random promotions to super-important status. Best example? Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. Wrex becomes King Krogan. Murdering psychopath Jack (before people say, BUT I CHANGED HER WITH THE POWAH OF LOVE, yeah, well a lot of people didn't wuv her and made her go all renegade and she still ends up in that position) becomes head biotic instructor of Grissom Academy. Garrus goes from just some C-Sec officer to damn near Turian royalty.

All of this happens in the span of 2+ years. Most of this happens within 6 months. <_<

It's funny isn't it. And people object to the VS characters being promoted in rank and becoming Spectres. While that's certainly stretching it they're not even close to being the worst offenders. 

I could only shake my head at Liara, Garrus and Jack. That's just insane. 

I read a pretty intriguing explanation for Wrex (basically blackmailing everyone into following him by controlling the females). I'd willing to let that one slide. Although the genophage arc becomes really lame if Wrex is alive. (Oh look, Wrex and Eve will rebuild the krogan society and make them unaggressive with the power of AWESOME. Yay!)

Wrex at least had the courtesy of two years of offscreen time to build up to his title and status. The others, not so much. Having said that, I do consider the VS being promoted to Spectre much more horrendous than Garrus becoming close to being Primarch. 

By some logic-stretching, it IS possible Garrus is indeed close to the throne, by virtue of everyone else being killed so badly that it falls to vigilante Garrus. The VS (using Ashley since that seems to be the default survivor) has a record of FAIL. Ashley failed to do anything but stay alive on Eden Prime until Shepard showed up, and didn't do a damn thing on Horizon except be unpopular and chew Shepard out.

Jack is probably the worst though.

[nos_astra]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
It's not ME3's job to completely ignore ME1 and ME2 either.

It certainly shot ME1 to pieces. It didn't do that with ME2, though. It followed up on what was there to follow up on. Granted, it didn't go out of its way to salvage ME2's miniscule contribution to the overarchig plot. And there were perceptive people who predicted very accurately that ME3 wouldn't really know what to do with ME2 for the most part and that the characters would be sidelined. Weird, isn't it?

Remember, for all of ME2, we are completely off the official grid really. The Council is dealing with us at a distance, the Alliance more so. There's no reaon none of that Citadel exploration could've been done while we were off throwing a monkey wrench into the Reaper's plan. Hell, that could've made some interesting missions early in ME3. Do some exploration like missions that you think would help us fight the Reapers, but you can only pick so many before the Reapers come calling.

Are you trying to use ME1's silly plot to excuse ME2's silly plot and lack of continuity?

None of this would have been necessary had they properly built upon ME1. Shepard didn't have to drop off the grid and the Council had previously acknowledged the threat with that giant Reaper crashing into the Citadel tower. 

Modifié par klarabella, 26 janvier 2013 - 01:12 .

[Ticonderoga117]

klarabella wrote...

*snip*

It certainly shot ME1 to pieces. It didn't do that with ME2, though. It followed up on what was there to follow up on. Granted, it didn't go out of its way to salvage ME2's miniscule contribution to the overarchig plot. And there were perceptive people who predicted very accurately that ME3 wouldn't really know what to do with ME2 for the most part and that the characters would be sidelined. Weird, isn't it?

*snip*

Are you trying to use ME1's silly plot to excuse ME2's silly plot and lack of continuity?

None of this would have been necessary had they properly built upon ME1. Shepard didn't have to drop off the grid and the Council had previously acknowledged the threat with that giant Reaper crashing into the Citadel tower. 

ME3 followed up on the side parts of ME2, which while nice, aren't the main thing. The whole Collector Base part was ignored! For either save or destroy. It's pitiful. It's made even worse that yeah, it shot ME1 to pieces. There's no reason to sideline characters or plot points unless they didn't feel like doing the work, which they didn't apparently.

Well let's face it, without more knowledge, why cause a panic to the Galaxy if you don't have anything to do about it. Hell, they don't even know that the Reapers can just casually push forward for 3 years to get to the Galaxy? The whole idea was that the Citadel was thier main and one way into the Galaxy. They could've made all of this tie together in ME3 in a decent way.... but no. The Council is stupid through and through and that's that.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Cutting out ME2 and leaving ME3 is like amputating the healthy parts of an injured limb and leaving the rotting, gangrenous parts in place instead. Why would you ever consider doing it?

[The Night Mammoth]

ThePhoenixKing wrote...

Cutting out ME2 and leaving ME3 is like amputating the healthy parts of an injured limb and leaving the rotting, gangrenous parts in place instead. Why would you ever consider doing it?

I wouldn't call ME2 healthy, in this context. 

[KingZayd]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ThePhoenixKing wrote...

Cutting out ME2 and leaving ME3 is like amputating the healthy parts of an injured limb and leaving the rotting, gangrenous parts in place instead. Why would you ever consider doing it?

I wouldn't call ME2 healthy, in this context. 

much healthier than ME3.

Modifié par KingZayd, 26 janvier 2013 - 02:11 .

[Ticonderoga117]

KingZayd wrote...

much healthier than ME3.

It's like comparing someone with a cold, to someone who has flesh-eating bacteria.

[justafan]

JBPBRC wrote...

Wrex at least had the courtesy of two years of offscreen time to build up to his title and status. The others, not so much. Having said that, I do consider the VS being promoted to Spectre much more horrendous than Garrus becoming close to being Primarch. 

By some logic-stretching, it IS possible Garrus is indeed close to the throne, by virtue of everyone else being killed so badly that it falls to vigilante Garrus. The VS (using Ashley since that seems to be the default survivor) has a record of FAIL. Ashley failed to do anything but stay alive on Eden Prime until Shepard showed up, and didn't do a damn thing on Horizon except be unpopular and chew Shepard out.

Jack is probably the worst though.

You do realize that the default sole survivor Shepard got Spectre status in the exact same way?  He didn't even have the VS's added bonus of being on the team that saved the heart of galactic government from a "geth" invasion.

[The Night Mammoth]

KingZayd wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ThePhoenixKing wrote...

Cutting out ME2 and leaving ME3 is like amputating the healthy parts of an injured limb and leaving the rotting, gangrenous parts in place instead. Why would you ever consider doing it?

I wouldn't call ME2 healthy, in this context. 

much healthier than ME3.

In this context, not really. 

[KingZayd]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ThePhoenixKing wrote...

Cutting out ME2 and leaving ME3 is like amputating the healthy parts of an injured limb and leaving the rotting, gangrenous parts in place instead. Why would you ever consider doing it?

I wouldn't call ME2 healthy, in this context. 

much healthier than ME3.

In this context, not really. 

But it really is.

[KevShep]

laecraft wrote...

The parts of the trilogy don't go well together. Probably because ME wasn't created as a trilogy in the beginning, but instead the devs invented plot for each game as they went forward. It would've been better to create each game as a stand-alone. Fans would be spared failed expectations.

For example, Shepard dies at the end of ME1. Then ME2 starts with a new hero - Jacob. Who doesn't know much about the Reapers and is more concerned with the immediate threat - Collectors. Then Jacob dies in the suicide mission. Cerberus is destroyed by the turians off-screen. ME3 starts with a new hero - Admiral Hackett (let's face it, there is no way a criminal like Shepard would be put in charge of diplomatic negotiations). The Admiral does everything in his power to stop the Reapers, however all his efforts are in vain, the alien friends ditch the Earth to save themselves, the Reapers win, and the cycle begins anew (let's face it, there could be no other outcome after ME2).

This is what the plot would be like without constant...divine interference. It's a little darker, but makes a little more sense. Reapers' victory is the logical outcome given what we saw in ME1. To prevent that outcome, something radically changing the situation needs to be done before the invasion. But nothing is done. And so we see the Crucible descending on the stage.

Actually the main writer(Drew K) had an overall plan that went from ME1 to ME2 and then BioWare abandaned his story in ME3 when he left for SWTOR.

Drew had showed everyone what he wanted to do with the story that Bioware canned after ME3 release. The story was the Dark Energy Plot.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

KingZayd wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ThePhoenixKing wrote...

Cutting out ME2 and leaving ME3 is like amputating the healthy parts of an injured limb and leaving the rotting, gangrenous parts in place instead. Why would you ever consider doing it?

I wouldn't call ME2 healthy, in this context. 

much healthier than ME3.

In this context, not really. 

But it really is.

Stop beating around the bush and tear each other's throats out already!

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

KevShep wrote...

Actually the main writer(Drew K) had an overall plan that went from ME1 to ME2 and then BioWare abandaned his story in ME3 when he left for SWTOR.

Drew had showed everyone what he wanted to do with the story that Bioware canned after ME3 release. The story was the Dark Energy Plot.

And let's thank the Eight that never came to fruition.

[Belisarius25]

[quote]JBPBRC wrote...

 Having said that, I do consider the VS being promoted to Spectre much more horrendous than Garrus becoming close to being Primarch. [/quote]

Just wondering - why? It's made very clear that the promotion to spectre is due to Udina plotting and the Council trying to appease him/humanity. To me, that's way way less hard to buy than stuff like Tali becoming an admiral or Liara becoming Shadow Broker instead of someone like Miranda.*

*That's not to say I think the whole Udina/Cerberus coup storyline is particularly smart - I don't - I just think the 'VS as Spectre" is fine within that context because it's clearly part of it.


[quote]Ticonderoga117 wrote...

And you're crew is full of nobodys? The hell? Let's break this down some
:Garrus: Has connections to the upper echelons of the Turian hierarchy. Becomes the advisor to the Primarch.[/quote]

He gets promoted because he's the "Reaper expert" in between ME2 and 3, but in ME2 he's just a vigilante on Omega and completely unimportant to the Turians. His Reaper expertise is from ME1, anyway.

[quote]Grunt: Helps solidify Wrex's position. Leads best commando outfit. [/quote]

How does he solidify Wrex' position? And he leads the commando outfit because Wrex put him in charge (the codex entry in ME3 even notes that there was grumbling because it was seen as a political move). Grunt's literally a nobody in ME2, and you can even just leave him in his test tube. I love his last stand in ME3, but let's be realistic here.

[quote]Jack: No big connections, but one of the most destructive biotics.[/quote]

Yeah, important (potentially) to the squad and/or Shepard, not really to the Reaper War (until her sudden transformation into teacher!Jack - regardless of events/how you interact with her in ME2 - in ME3, when she becomes mildly important to a small squad of biotics). 

[quote]Jacob: Connections to Cerberus.

Miranda: Ditto, but also has more connections and knowledge. [/quote]

Jacob isn't important, really, except as part of TIM's plot to make Cerberus look friendly (or as a love interest to female Shepard, I guess, which of course ends badly). Miranda is basically TIM's right hand (wo)man and is a lot more important (and I'd have preferred she end up as the Shadow Broker, with your interactions with her in ME3 dependent on your relationship from ME2). Instead she has a small group of operatives and gets derailed with more Dad/Oriana fun.

[quote]Kasumi: Best thief. No connections but still helpful.[/quote]

Not important when it comes to fighting the Reapers (other than scoring extra EMS if you have her, I guess). I like her, but from the perspective of building a coalition to fight the Reapers she's peripheral at best.

[quote]Legion: Your connection to all of the Geth.[/quote]

Agreed. Legion's very, very, very important (compare with no-Legion import)

[quote]Tali: Becomes an Admiral for the Quarians.[/quote]

Agreed, although her promotion is a bit silly and there's no real indication that it's coming in ME2, when she comes along because of Shepard.
[quote]Mordin: Connection to STG and the Salarians.[/quote]

Doesn't affect your relationship with STG though and the Salarian government basically disowns him for wanting to cure the genophage (and doesn't care if you murder him in doing so); you also don't see how he interacts with STG/the Salarian government until ME3 - in ME2 he's just retired. Very important plotwise, though.

[quote]Samara: Connection to the Asari.[/quote]

In what way? Because she's an Asari? She's a justicar, yes, but she doesn't have any particularly important ties to the Asari leadership or fighting the Reapers beyond her own skills. She doesn't convince the Asari leaders to do anything or secure extra aid or anything.

[quote]Thane: The Hanar. Also, best assassin. Could be helpful to remove "threats".[/quote]

Never presented as being that important to the Hanar (and is dying anyway). Single assassins against Reapers doesn't strike me as that useful (and I say that as someone who likes Thane; he just isn't that important from that perspective)
[quote]Zaeed: The Blue Sons, or just a badass with a gun. Always useful to have.[/quote]

Lone gun with a history of leading bloody missions that might succeed but have a high body count. Not important to fighting the Reapers

The truly important characters (from the POV of fighting the Reapers) are Legion/Tali (for Rannoch), Mordin (plotwise but not for the Salarians), vaguely Miranda (underused and derailed somewhat in ME3) and Garrus (due to ME1 events, not important to the Turians in ME2)

[quote]Unifying the Galaxy after ME2 early ME3 looks very possible with your crew of "nobody's".[/quote]

Not really. 

It lays the groundwork for Rannoch if you play your ME2 cards right (which ME3 follows up on), and Tuchanka (which ME3 follows up on). That's about it.

Your only connection with the Turians is Garrus, and his importance to the Turians comes offscreen and after ME2 and is due to his Reaper-fighting expertise which occurred in ME1. Neither Samara nor Morinth offer anything for the Asari. Mordin (due to his evolving views on the genophage) isn't influencing the Salarian government or STG. None of the secondary races (Batarians, Volus, Elcor, etc.) are worked with at all and ME3 does a lot of work to finish the storylines too.

ME2 could and should have done more to set up the global coalition, but instead did almost nothing beyond the Geth-Quarians (if you did things the 'right' way) and laying the groundwork for the Turian/Krogan/Tuchanka plotline while focusing heavily on the underworld/underside of galactic civilization. 

Worse, it turned the Council races into morons on the side - covering up the Reapers from the public to prevent a panic is probably smart. Ignoring what you know to be true and using lines like "Ah, yes, 'Reapers'" is not. Only the Alliance is presented as doing much of anything (and that's anti-Collector/to protect the colonies rather than to prepare), which is just silly.

Modifié par Belisarius25, 26 janvier 2013 - 03:01 .

[Nicksta92]

You make some really good points but ME2 is the centerpiece of the entire series for me. ME1 was a 9, ME2 was a 10, and without it I don't believe I'd be interested in Mass Effect any more.