Seboist wrote...
Belisarius25 wrote...
Like why Fornax was ignored in ME3 after getting such great foreshadowing of its importance in ME2
There's an actual fan... uh llustrated publication of it out there.
KotorEffect3 wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Since we're on the subject of ME2's atrocious writing and pointlessness this as good a moment as any to post Smudboy's analysis of it.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Spam, we don't need links to smugboy's worthless videos
Belisarius25 wrote...
I guess I can ask here. During the intro to ME2, when the Collectors destroy the Normandy...was it ever explained why they don't shoot down the escape pods too?
Helios969 wrote...
Back on topic here, but after playing through the entire series I feel like ME2 should have been the first game, (I do get what you mean OP.) It definitely feels out of place in the context of the story, but perhaps that's simply the product of the writers not having a clearly defined direction from the onset, or even knowing whether ME1 would have been successful enough to warrant a sequel. Personally, I'd like them to "reload" the entire series...restructure the story so that things fit more logically (and give us a more climatic conclusion.) For me ME1 has no replayability because of boring combat, weak graphics, and choppy dialogue and VA, which is too bad since it arguably has the best ending.
of course they have...Seboist wrote...
Helios969 wrote...
Back on topic here, but after playing through the entire series I feel like ME2 should have been the first game, (I do get what you mean OP.) It definitely feels out of place in the context of the story, but perhaps that's simply the product of the writers not having a clearly defined direction from the onset, or even knowing whether ME1 would have been successful enough to warrant a sequel. Personally, I'd like them to "reload" the entire series...restructure the story so that things fit more logically (and give us a more climatic conclusion.) For me ME1 has no replayability because of boring combat, weak graphics, and choppy dialogue and VA, which is too bad since it arguably has the best ending.
The devs have admitted they planned absolutely nothing in advance and that Cerberus was never intended to be anything but side quest XP fodder.
dorktainian wrote...
of course they have...
Of course, some of you are also pinging me to find out what the
“original” ending of the series was when we started planning out the
trilogy. Sorry, but that’s not something I’m even going to attempt to
answer. The collaborative creative process is incredibly complicated,
and the story and ideas are constantly evolving as you go forward. Yes,
we had a plan, but it was very vague. We knew we wanted to focus on some
key themes and bring in certain key elements: organics vs synthetics;
the Reapers; the Mass Relays. Beyond that, we didn’t go into detail
because we knew it would change radically as the game continued to
evolve.
A good example of this is Cerberus. When we wrote ME1, Cerberus was
basically a throw-away group of pro-human radicals: a name we dropped
for some side missions to play the role of villain. We didn’t even have a
concept of who was running them, and we didn’t think they were that
important. Obviously by the time of my Ascension novel and ME2, that had
changed radically. The Illusive Man and Cerberus became central to the
story and themes – that never would have happened if we had nailed
everything down and refused to make changes to the story.
Modifié par Seboist, 28 janvier 2013 - 03:31 .
Seboist wrote...
dorktainian wrote...
of course they have...
http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=381Of course, some of you are also pinging me to find out what the
“original” ending of the series was when we started planning out the
trilogy. Sorry, but that’s not something I’m even going to attempt to
answer. The collaborative creative process is incredibly complicated,
and the story and ideas are constantly evolving as you go forward. Yes,
we had a plan, but it was very vague. We knew we wanted to focus on some
key themes and bring in certain key elements: organics vs synthetics;
the Reapers; the Mass Relays. Beyond that, we didn’t go into detail
because we knew it would change radically as the game continued to
evolve.
A good example of this is Cerberus. When we wrote ME1, Cerberus was
basically a throw-away group of pro-human radicals: a name we dropped
for some side missions to play the role of villain. We didn’t even have a
concept of who was running them, and we didn’t think they were that
important. Obviously by the time of my Ascension novel and ME2, that had
changed radically. The Illusive Man and Cerberus became central to the
story and themes – that never would have happened if we had nailed
everything down and refused to make changes to the story.
Want a hankerchief to wipe that egg off your face?
i like how it contradicted the premise you made. taken literally of course. read it and understand it. Everything was left open because they knew the game would evolve.Seboist wrote...
I like how what you bolded didn't disprove anything I said.
Modifié par dorktainian, 28 janvier 2013 - 03:36 .
nothing phases me thanks. i would love one of those red bananas tho. never know when you'll get caught short do you?Seboist wrote...
Nice ignoring of what he said about them being just xp fodder in ME1 before they changed it.
I'm sure that TIM originally being meant be based off a company's penthouse on Earth in Ascension before being quietly retconned in ME2 doesn't phase you either.
Modifié par dorktainian, 28 janvier 2013 - 03:45 .
dorktainian wrote...
nothing phases me thanks. i would love one of those red bananas tho. never know when you'll get caught short do you?Seboist wrote...
Nice ignoring of what he said about them being just xp fodder in ME1 before they changed it.
I'm sure that TIM originally being meant be based off a company's penthouse on Earth in Ascension before being quietly retconned in ME2 doesn't phase you either.
Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 28 janvier 2013 - 03:49 .
aww i wuv you too hetty :wub:snuggles....nice you've looked me up.Heretic_Hanar wrote...
dorktainian wrote...
nothing phases me thanks. i would love one of those red bananas tho. never know when you'll get caught short do you?Seboist wrote...
Nice ignoring of what he said about them being just xp fodder in ME1 before they changed it.
I'm sure that TIM originally being meant be based off a company's penthouse on Earth in Ascension before being quietly retconned in ME2 doesn't phase you either.
The red bandanna is only for grown up people, not 44 years old children throwing a temper tantrum.
Modifié par dorktainian, 28 janvier 2013 - 03:59 .
dorktainian wrote...
aww i wuv you too hetty :wub:snuggles....nice you've looked me up.Heretic_Hanar wrote...
dorktainian wrote...
nothing phases me thanks. i would love one of those red bananas tho. never know when you'll get caught short do you?Seboist wrote...
Nice ignoring of what he said about them being just xp fodder in ME1 before they changed it.
I'm sure that TIM originally being meant be based off a company's penthouse on Earth in Ascension before being quietly retconned in ME2 doesn't phase you either.
The red bandanna is only for grown up people, not 44 years old children throwing a temper tantrum.
Modifié par dorktainian, 28 janvier 2013 - 04:06 .
dorktainian wrote...
aww. you see you really care
fwiw i love ME2. It's the best game of the trilogy by a country mile.
anyway must go. gotta dash. hunt me out a red banana.
she will be when i get me a red banana.Heretic_Hanar wrote...
dorktainian wrote...
aww. you see you really care
fwiw i love ME2. It's the best game of the trilogy by a country mile.
anyway must go. gotta dash. hunt me out a red banana.
Is your mother proud of you?
Baelrahn wrote...
OT: I don't wanna be the guy that links to this again, but Chris L'Etoile once made it pretty clear how ME2 was the point when the senior writer's plan crashed hard against the fixed ideas of "people who get paid a lot more" (to quote the very one). Mainly how the Legion-N7-chestpiece-thing wasn't a funny designer prank turned canon (as stated in the art book), but a forced decision from higher up, shocked me very much.
klarabella wrote...
Could you two stop that?
I mean, I get that dorkling is trolling this thread and trying to get it locked. I just don't get why the hanar is playing along.
Belisarius25 wrote...
Baelrahn wrote...
OT: I don't wanna be the guy that links to this again, but Chris L'Etoile once made it pretty clear how ME2 was the point when the senior writer's plan crashed hard against the fixed ideas of "people who get paid a lot more" (to quote the very one). Mainly how the Legion-N7-chestpiece-thing wasn't a funny designer prank turned canon (as stated in the art book), but a forced decision from higher up, shocked me very much.
Yeah I found his comments very interesting (I was the one who posted them over here actually, well most recently at least).
It seems pretty clear to me that ME2, ignoring how enjoyable/well-made it is as an individual game, was marked by a lot of confusion/disagreement/what have you behind the scenes, particularly in terms of its role within a larger series. Part of that seems to be that the original game, while having an obvious sequel hook and stuff to build on, doesn't seem to have been written with the expectation of having a sequel, part of that seems to be that Bioware had too many competing viewpoints and various aspects suffered because of it.
In some cases they even repeated their mistake (marginalizing some ME1 characters in ME2, getting negative feedback, then doing the exact same thing on a larger scale in ME3 because they introduced too many new characters in ME2), you get narrative inconsistencies, and so on.
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