426 réponses à ce sujet

[JBPBRC]

Trilogy is better off without ME3, not ME2.

[Barquiel]

mosesarose wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

It is not ME2 fault that is brother ME3 is born both stupidand crappy

This right here. I swear it was ME3's job to incoporate the events of what happened in ME2. It is not ME2's fault that ME3 failed to do this, so I can't see the problem.

The problem is...it didn't happen anything important im ME2. There isn't much of a story. The majority of the game is actually just recruiting characters (who are all killable) and the loyalty missions (only Mordin's and Legions's loyalty missions have some story impact).

We didn't unite the galaxy and we have not the faintest idea how to defeat the reapers at the end of ME2 (resolved in Liara's homeworld comic).

[Seboist]

archangel1996 wrote...

It is not ME2's fault that his brother ME3 is born both stupid and crappy

Yes it is, not only did 2 fail to advance the plot but it actually regressed it with "ah yes reapers". Then there's the comic bookification with the silly outfits and pulp schlockification like Lazarus,Overlord and Space Terminator that wreck the universe ME1 created.

It's also because of 2 that the only plausible ending in 3 is a Reaper victory within the first few hours.

Modifié par Seboist, 24 janvier 2013 - 08:24 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

Well, not really. That's the thing about ME2, it's not particularly damaging to the Mass Effect narrative, there are some ugly lore errors and stuff but at the end of the day it really doesn't change much of anything. It's basically an above average (but not excellent) cover shooter with interesting characters and no plot. It just meanders. So I'd say the trilogy probably isn't any better or worse off regardless of Mass Effect 2.

Mass Effect 3... well it destroyed the trilogy, so I don't know why this is still a discussion.

[adam32867]

Barquiel wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

It is not ME2 fault that is brother ME3 is born both stupidand crappy

This right here. I swear it was ME3's job to incoporate the events of what happened in ME2. It is not ME2's fault that ME3 failed to do this, so I can't see the problem.

The problem is...it didn't happen anything important im ME2. There isn't much of a story. The majority of the game is actually just recruiting characters (who are all killable) and the loyalty missions (only Mordin's and Legions's loyalty missions have some story impact).

We didn't unite the galaxy and we have not the faintest idea how to defeat the reapers at the end of ME2 (resolved in Liara's homeworld comic).

me2 introduced the dark energy plotline which was suppose to be a big part of me3 but they dropped it. so it was originaly going to be a lot more important than it ended up being. 

[10K]

adam32867 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

It is not ME2 fault that is brother ME3 is born both stupidand crappy

This right here. I swear it was ME3's job to incoporate the events of what happened in ME2. It is not ME2's fault that ME3 failed to do this, so I can't see the problem.

The problem is...it didn't happen anything important im ME2. There isn't much of a story. The majority of the game is actually just recruiting characters (who are all killable) and the loyalty missions (only Mordin's and Legions's loyalty missions have some story impact).

We didn't unite the galaxy and we have not the faintest idea how to defeat the reapers at the end of ME2 (resolved in Liara's homeworld comic).

me2 introduced the dark energy plotline which was suppose to be a big part of me3 but they dropped it. so it was originaly going to be a lot more important than it ended up being. 

Thank you, you took the words out of my mouth. If anything ME3 could be taken out the series, it failed to follow the reapers lore of invasion. If I'm not misstaken they should have attacked the citadel first and foremost before beginning their invasion in the first place. The reapers were presented as a strong but vulnerable force in ME1. But suddenly they are this unstoppable plague that are only wiped out by pressing a button on a device that was never forshadowed throughout the series.   

Modifié par mosesarose, 24 janvier 2013 - 09:12 .

[Mercedes-Benz]

No, what needs to change is adding an conventional victory option in Mass Effect 3 (and removing the "space magic" synthesis option, since it is beyond ridiculous) and fixing other things in the game, the first two games should be kept as they are (except maybe getting rid of Jacob:D).

Modifié par Mercedes-Benz, 24 janvier 2013 - 09:19 .

[Kabraxal]

The trilogy would be better off without the Deus Ex fan fiction forced into the narrative... though ME3 really does need to address the hints from both 1 and 2 instead of just leaving most of it hanging for a completely ridiculous love affair with the technological singularity that had not made one dent in the story before the ending.

[CoolioThane]

Are sandwiches better off without the filling?

[Seboist]

adam32867 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

It is not ME2 fault that is brother ME3 is born both stupidand crappy

This right here. I swear it was ME3's job to incoporate the events of what happened in ME2. It is not ME2's fault that ME3 failed to do this, so I can't see the problem.

The problem is...it didn't happen anything important im ME2. There isn't much of a story. The majority of the game is actually just recruiting characters (who are all killable) and the loyalty missions (only Mordin's and Legions's loyalty missions have some story impact).

We didn't unite the galaxy and we have not the faintest idea how to defeat the reapers at the end of ME2 (resolved in Liara's homeworld comic).

me2 introduced the dark energy plotline which was suppose to be a big part of me3 but they dropped it. so it was originaly going to be a lot more important than it ended up being. 

Wow, people still think a plot where humans are turned into liquid goo to form a space terminator because of (nonexistent) "genetic diversity" to (somehow) combat dark energy is actually good?

It's on the same level as aliens creating zombies to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe (Plan 9 from Outer Space).

[The Night Mammoth]

Seboist wrote...

adam32867 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

It is not ME2 fault that is brother ME3 is born both stupidand crappy

This right here. I swear it was ME3's job to incoporate the events of what happened in ME2. It is not ME2's fault that ME3 failed to do this, so I can't see the problem.

The problem is...it didn't happen anything important im ME2. There isn't much of a story. The majority of the game is actually just recruiting characters (who are all killable) and the loyalty missions (only Mordin's and Legions's loyalty missions have some story impact).

We didn't unite the galaxy and we have not the faintest idea how to defeat the reapers at the end of ME2 (resolved in Liara's homeworld comic).

me2 introduced the dark energy plotline which was suppose to be a big part of me3 but they dropped it. so it was originaly going to be a lot more important than it ended up being. 

Wow, people still think a plot where humans are turned into liquid goo to form a space terminator because of (nonexistent) "genetic diversity" to (somehow) combat dark energy is actually good?

It's on the same level as aliens creating zombies to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe (Plan 9 from Outer Space).

"He's dead, murdered, and someone's responsible."

In agreement here. Dark Energy doesn't exactly sound like any sort of improvement. 

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

Wow, people still think a plot where humans are turned into liquid goo to form a space terminator because of (nonexistent) "genetic diversity" to (somehow) combat dark energy is actually good?

It's on the same level as aliens creating zombies to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe (Plan 9 from Outer Space).

. It's just as bad as killing organics so they don't create synthetics that kill organics

[Seboist]

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Wow, people still think a plot where humans are turned into liquid goo to form a space terminator because of (nonexistent) "genetic diversity" to (somehow) combat dark energy is actually good?

It's on the same level as aliens creating zombies to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe (Plan 9 from Outer Space).

. It's just as bad as killing organics so they don't create synthetics that kill organics

Of course, which is why it's not a good alternative.

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Wow, people still think a plot where humans are turned into liquid goo to form a space terminator because of (nonexistent) "genetic diversity" to (somehow) combat dark energy is actually good?

It's on the same level as aliens creating zombies to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe (Plan 9 from Outer Space).

. It's just as bad as killing organics so they don't create synthetics that kill organics

Of course, which is why it's not a good alternative.

. I agree 100% 

[HiddenInWar]

ME2 was one of the greatest games I've ever played. The trilogy need that small-scale entry into the series, and it was executed perfectly.

[wright1978]

To me the Dark Energy hints on Haestrom and elsewhere were interesting. Certainly don't agree with ME3 spending so much time ignoring/regressing/re-writing ME2. The way the human reaper was weak but heck it looks a positively genius creation compared to the ME3 ending trainwreck inducing catalyst.

[Seboist]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"He's dead, murdered, and someone's responsible."

In agreement here. Dark Energy doesn't exactly sound like any sort of improvement. 

It sure wasn't  and apart from the issues I mentioned it has other gaping holes in logic behind it like Reapers accelerating the problem by leaving all this dark energy guzzling tech laying around for any tom,dick and harry to use.

Lack of planning.... not good for a story.

[10K]

The point is ME2 did set-up a plot device for ME3 to capitalize upon. ME3 failed to follow what ME2 started. No matter if it was good or bad it was still there. Like I said before you can't blame ME2 for what ME3 failed to do.

Modifié par mosesarose, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:21 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Seboist wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"He's dead, murdered, and someone's responsible."

In agreement here. Dark Energy doesn't exactly sound like any sort of improvement. 

It sure wasn't  and apart from the issues I mentioned it has other gaping holes in logic behind it like Reapers accelerating the problem by leaving all this dark energy guzzling tech laying around for any tom,dick and harry to use.

Lack of planning.... not good for a story.

The very fact that they restarted the story at the very beginning of the game should be evidence enough that they really didn't know where they were going. 

Funnily enough, Mass Effect has it's own "He's dead" line, in the form of "We fight or we die."

Someone should make a thread.  

[Belisarius25]

mosesarose wrote...

Like I said before you can't blame ME2 for what ME3 failed to do.

Sure you can, if ME2's setup is poorly done.

For example, many/most people agree that ME2's squadmates didn't get much/enough attention in ME3, but that's also in large part due to the fact that Bioware included way too big of a roster (particularly when you add on Kasumi and Zaeed) and then made them all killable. Bioware then has to deal with the consequences of having a lot of 'important' characters who might or might not be dead, as well as romances, possibly whether they were loyal or not, etc.

So, ME3 did fail (in my mind) with regards to how it handled the ME2 squad, but the real issue was born in ME2 and I can't see a reasonable way for ME3 to have dealt with it (you can't put a lot of focus on all the characters, so someone's going to get left out)

Modifié par Belisarius25, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:25 .

[Seboist]

I've seen portable spin-off games like Resistance:Retribution or Killzone:Liberation advance the plot of their respective series more than ME2 did.

[10K]

Belisarius25 wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Like I said before you can't blame ME2 for what ME3 failed to do.

Sure you can, if ME2's setup is poorly done.

For example, many/most people agree that ME2's squadmates didn't get much/enough attention in ME3, but that's also in large part due to the fact that Bioware included way too big of a roster (particularly when you add on Kasumi and Zaeed) and then made them all killable. Bioware then has to deal with the consequences of having a lot of 'important' characters who might or might not be dead, as well as romances, possibly whether they were loyal or not, etc.

So, ME3 did fail (in my mind) with regards to how it handled the ME2 squad, but the real issue was born in ME2 and I can't see a reasonable way for ME3 to have dealt with it (you can't put a lot of focus on all the characters, so someone's going to get left out)

All I'm trying to say is ME2 had the dark energy theory going on. My point is if ME3 would have build it's story around this theory instead of going all crucible on us this thread wouldn't exist. Therefore I still can't see where ME2 is at fault here.