796 réponses à ce sujet

[Galbrant]

Does a epilogue counts as an ending? >_>.... an Epilogue DLC

[rapscallioness]

Hmm. What I find interesting in that Hale Twitter post is towards the end someone sks who she is talking to, because they have the feeling her tweet was Not directed at the players.

She replied: true.

So, seems like the trust ur writers, ppl was not to the players. Maybe it was directed at corporate?

[3DandBeyond]

Back on topic before this train runs out of steam and dumps me off. Hope remains until the last gasp. BW needs to show me the gasp I saw was not the last one. And yes that's a need I have, but it is very likely it is also a need that they have that could help turn things around.

[PainCakesx]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Actions often have bigger impacts. If Bioware continued to exaggerate and make false promises then the gaming community would pick up on this and stop buying their games. You know how capitalism works so I'm not gonna bother being professorial about it. Bioware doesn't seem to be a "short-term profit" type of company so I doubt they'll continue down this road.

I'm already predicting difficulties in convincing people to preorder the next few Bioware games.

Frankly I'm shocked they're seriously going to try and make another Mass Effect game so soon.  Given how many people are still smarting over this one.

A small (yet, very loud) group of disgruntled customers who hated the ending so much that they resorted to online petitions and cupcakes. The majority loved ME3 despite the disappointing ending. Mass Effect 4 will probably sell more than ME3, given that it will be on new hardware and people want more Mass Effect in general.

Because I love your avatar I will not rise to your completelly evidence free assertions designed to start an argument 

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

Given the first 2 ME games had good endings, the "most games have bad endings" argument doesn't hold. If ME1 and 2 were weak games with poor endings, then there wouldn't be any backlash at all. All the ending needed was to give the player a sense of accomplishment, tie up loose ends in a logical manner and give players a sense of closure.

The endings as of now don't accomplish these goals.

[Reorte]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

What numbers there are point to more people unhappy than happy. There's quite probably some selection bias in there but there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest any general trend in the other direction. If you use the "silent majority" argument you have to come to the conclusion that every game ever released was mediocre rubbish that people couldn't care less about one way or the other and quickly forget, and that's obviously nonsense.

In my experience there are quite often issues that people will grumble about but very rarely is there anything that stirs up the level of diasppointment that the end of ME3 did because the worst others usually manage is "Well, that was poor, move on." Other games might fizzle out at the end but they don't run head first into a brick wall. Perhps they don't say anything when players want them to but that's different from saying something bad.

Modifié par Reorte, 23 janvier 2013 - 01:57 .

[3DandBeyond]

Galbrant wrote...

Does a epilogue counts as an ending? >_>.... an Epilogue DLC

Maybe we need a list of what technically is and technically isn't an ending.  Epilogs are not endings they are post-ending content. 

[Hexley UK]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Actions often have bigger impacts. If Bioware continued to exaggerate and make false promises then the gaming community would pick up on this and stop buying their games. You know how capitalism works so I'm not gonna bother being professorial about it. Bioware doesn't seem to be a "short-term profit" type of company so I doubt they'll continue down this road.

I'm already predicting difficulties in convincing people to preorder the next few Bioware games.

Frankly I'm shocked they're seriously going to try and make another Mass Effect game so soon.  Given how many people are still smarting over this one.

A small (yet, very loud) group of disgruntled customers who hated the ending so much that they resorted to online petitions and cupcakes. The majority loved ME3 despite the disappointing ending. Mass Effect 4 will probably sell more than ME3, given that it will be on new hardware and people want more Mass Effect in general.

Because I love your avatar I will not rise to your completelly evidence free assertions designed to start an argument 

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

So your evidence is you didn't like it very much and therefore most people must have loved it?

Colour me confused.....

Just for reference on this board a poll with 70,000+ votes had 91% hating it....not total proof of course...but a good indicator.

social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/

Modifié par Hexley UK, 23 janvier 2013 - 01:58 .

[PainCakesx]

I know of one person in real life out of the many who played ME3 and somewhat liked the ending. The rest hated it.

None of them post on any message boards. It's not confined to BSN - hell I just joined last week after holding on playing the game for a year.

The burn still hurts in my case given it's so recent too.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 23 janvier 2013 - 01:57 .

[TurianRebel212]

Hexley UK wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Actions often have bigger impacts. If Bioware continued to exaggerate and make false promises then the gaming community would pick up on this and stop buying their games. You know how capitalism works so I'm not gonna bother being professorial about it. Bioware doesn't seem to be a "short-term profit" type of company so I doubt they'll continue down this road.

I'm already predicting difficulties in convincing people to preorder the next few Bioware games.

Frankly I'm shocked they're seriously going to try and make another Mass Effect game so soon.  Given how many people are still smarting over this one.

A small (yet, very loud) group of disgruntled customers who hated the ending so much that they resorted to online petitions and cupcakes. The majority loved ME3 despite the disappointing ending. Mass Effect 4 will probably sell more than ME3, given that it will be on new hardware and people want more Mass Effect in general.

Because I love your avatar I will not rise to your completelly evidence free assertions designed to start an argument 

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

So your evidence is you didn't like it very much and therefore most people must have loved it?

Colour me confused.....

Just for reference on this board a poll with 70,000+ votes had 94% hating it....not total proof of course...but a good indicator.

Yes genralization's based on individual opinions. Don't you love them. 'most people liked the endings'...... um, yeah. okay. lol          :lol:

[crimzontearz]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Actions often have bigger impacts. If Bioware continued to exaggerate and make false promises then the gaming community would pick up on this and stop buying their games. You know how capitalism works so I'm not gonna bother being professorial about it. Bioware doesn't seem to be a "short-term profit" type of company so I doubt they'll continue down this road.

I'm already predicting difficulties in convincing people to preorder the next few Bioware games.

Frankly I'm shocked they're seriously going to try and make another Mass Effect game so soon.  Given how many people are still smarting over this one.

A small (yet, very loud) group of disgruntled customers who hated the ending so much that they resorted to online petitions and cupcakes. The majority loved ME3 despite the disappointing ending. Mass Effect 4 will probably sell more than ME3, given that it will be on new hardware and people want more Mass Effect in general.

Because I love your avatar I will not rise to your completelly evidence free assertions designed to start an argument 

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

operative word is bolded

also your last sentence is purely an opinion

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Reorte wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

What numbers there are point to more people unhappy than happy. There's quite probably some selection bias in there but there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest any general trend in the other direction. If you use the "silent majority" argument you have to come to the conclusion that every game ever released was mediocre rubbish that people couldn't care less about one way or the other and quickly forget, and that's obviously nonsense.

In my experience there are quite often issues that people will grumble about but very rarely is there anything that stirs up the level of diasppointment that the end of ME3 did because the worst others usually manage is "Well, that was poor, move on." Other games might fizzle out at the end but they don't run head first into a brick wall. Perhps they don't say anything when players want them to but that's different from saying something bad.

Well, let's say ME3 sold 3 million copies when this thing blew up. Out of the the 3 million copies sold, how many do you think posted in the online petitions?

[3DandBeyond]

PainCakesx wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

Given the first 2 ME games had good endings, the "most games have bad endings" argument doesn't hold. If ME1 and 2 were weak games with poor endings, then there wouldn't be any backlash at all. All the ending needed was to give the player a sense of accomplishment, tie up loose ends in a logical manner and give players a sense of closure.

The endings as of now don't accomplish these goals.

And @EpicBoot2daFace just made my point.  If gamers are willing to accept any old garbage and excuse it, then the gaming industry will never be taken as serious art of any kind.  And I'm not ridiculing the use of the word art here.  I mean that it's about time games grew up and acted as art.  But to do so they must prove themselves to consumers and consumers must expect more.  The first thought when confronted with crap should not be, "most games have bad endings" or "most games do this or that bad".  I know that in many ways that is true, but we shouldn't accept it, and game devs that want to be creating "art" should never want to hear that.  Games need to come of age and do real things, be really intellectual when appropriate and not claim to be.

[PainCakesx]

Most people can't be bothered to participate in online petitions. Using that to claim that most people liked the endings is not a good way to go about it.

[Iakus]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

Please show me where I said any of that (besides liking your avatar).  I never said a majority signed anything.  

And your guess that most people enjoyed the game is only that:  a guess.  For myself, I have few illusions that people put down their games when it was over and got on with their lives.  But my guess goes further to say that when ME4 or whatever comes along, they'll look at the game, go "Oh yeah, I remember that.  the last game sucked"  and get on with their lives with some other title.

Saying "Yeah, well most game endings aren't very good" is actually quite depressing.  It tells me Bioware is sinking into mediocrity.  Doing just enough to get by.  Bioware used to be different.  They used to care about their stories.  It's what made them special. Why else are people placing such hopes on this next dlc (misplaced though I think that hope is)?  It's hope that the "old Bioware" can still come back.

[MegaSovereign]

I'm fairly certain they can pull off a great last DLC without including ending content in it.

In fact I think it'd be smarter for Bioware to vaguely set up a new conflict or subplot that can be used in future ME games.

To me, what is essentially a narrative patch that is intended to "fix" something doesn't sound as epic as new DLC that can stand on its own legs.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 23 janvier 2013 - 02:05 .

[Hexley UK]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Reorte wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Well, thanks for the compliment. But do you really think that it was the majority that signed the online petitions? I don't have numbers, but I'm guessing most people played the game and enjoyed it despite the ending. I'm not saying they weren't disappointed, but they went on with their lives.

It's almost always a very loud vocal minority of pissed off people who have to be pissed off at something to get their jollies. I was among those who played and enjoyed the game, and when the gam wrapped up, I said to myself "well, that kinda sucked" and went on with my life. The fact of the matter is, most endings in video games are often **** and don't offer up much resolution.

What numbers there are point to more people unhappy than happy. There's quite probably some selection bias in there but there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest any general trend in the other direction. If you use the "silent majority" argument you have to come to the conclusion that every game ever released was mediocre rubbish that people couldn't care less about one way or the other and quickly forget, and that's obviously nonsense.

In my experience there are quite often issues that people will grumble about but very rarely is there anything that stirs up the level of diasppointment that the end of ME3 did because the worst others usually manage is "Well, that was poor, move on." Other games might fizzle out at the end but they don't run head first into a brick wall. Perhps they don't say anything when players want them to but that's different from saying something bad.

Well, let's say ME3 sold 3 million copies when this thing blew up. Out of the the 3 million copies sold, how many do you think posted in the online petitions?

Well if your just talking about BSN about 80,000, 91% of which hated the endings...this is huge if you know anything about statistics.

General rule is for every 1 person who registers their displeasure 26 people share the same view but just don't bother making themselves heard....they just swear off the company and don't buy again.

Quote from www.creatingcustomerevangelists.com/resources/columnsarticles/fight_the_fear.asp

"Research firm TARP has found that for every person who complains, there are 26 who do not."

[3DandBeyond]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...


Well, let's say ME3 sold 3 million copies when this thing blew up. Out of the the 3 million copies sold, how many do you think posted in the online petitions?

How many were returned?  Stores were forced to accept returns (or decided to do so in the face of angry customers).  How many people complain vocally about any product?  And consider this is a video game where everyone was set against fans that did not like the endings.  First off, people that complain about games aren't taken seriously-you don't think they should be since games always do something wrong and that's ok with you.  All the for pay reviewers were against those that disliked the endings.  Getting a thousand people to agree that a game dev did something wrong-the same something-is a major accomplishment.  And quite frankly, how many people that didn't like the endings even knew about the petitions or this website?  I didn't.  I played the game and was completely unaware until I couldn't figure out why I got such a crappy ending.  I got the gasp and thought I'd screwed up-I found this site and then learned what had happened.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

PainCakesx wrote...

Most people can't be bothered to participate in online petitions. Using that to claim that most people liked the endings is not a good way to go about it.

I never said most people liked the endings. I think most people who played the game didn't like the endings but didn't make a huge fuss over it. As a customer, you pay for what's on the disc. You got exactly that. Even if you don't like some part of it, that was the deal.

I didn't like how Halo 2 ended, I thought it was terrible. But I didn't go on a forum and sign petitions demanding that Bungie change the ending. I got what I paid for, despite me not liking a certain part of it.

[jkflipflopDAO]

vivaladricas wrote...

Hardest day ever......my paycheck was only 150k....I mean if you knew what we had planned you would hold on to your copy forever.

And I would get 200k.

I actually tried to get a refund on Origin but they shot me down twice. 

Apparently I have to hold onto my copy forever. May as well see where it ends up.

[doodiebody]

Chris Priestly wrote...

 Temper your expectations.

I can't be the only one that finds this hilarious.  The official post responding to fan optimism that something cool might be coming is basically "People, people, people...remember, this is just DLC.  Expect it to be mediocre and only loosely tied to the main story."

[Hexley UK]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Most people can't be bothered to participate in online petitions. Using that to claim that most people liked the endings is not a good way to go about it.

I never said most people liked the endings. I think most people who played the game didn't like the endings but didn't make a huge fuss over it. As a customer, you pay for what's on the disc. You got exactly that. Even if you don't like some part of it, that was the deal.

I didn't like how Halo 2 ended, I thought it was terrible. But I didn't go on a forum and sign petitions demanding that Bungie change the ending. I got what I paid for, despite me not liking a certain part of it.

So you don't take offense at blatantly being lied to.....that's nice of you...alot of us are less forgiving.

[Morty Smith]

doodiebody wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

 Temper your expectations.

I can't be the only one that finds this hilarious.  The official post responding to fan optimism that something cool might be coming is basically "People, people, people...remember, this is just DLC.  Expect it to be mediocre and only loosely tied to the main story."

Expect the words "biggest", "largest" and "best so far" to pop up in the near future.

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I'm fairly certain they can pull off a great last DLC without including ending content in it.

In fact I think it'd be smarter for Bioware to vaguely set up a new conflict or subplot that can be used in future ME games.

To me, what is essentially a narrative patch that is intended to "fix" something doesn't sound as epic as new DLC that can stand on its own legs.

You see futility can be explained.  Would be great if BW actually doesn't intend to ever want a huge group of fans to return and then buy ME4 or whatever.  The feeling tends to be one of a lack of trust, not only considering that lies may or may not have been told, but trust in what content they are capable of creating.  Say a person gets over the train wreck of ME3's ending (what they think it is) and says they will look at ME4.  ME4 is the first in a trilogy.  That person would be an idiot to buy ME4 before ME7 is released.  Or it could be repeated.  ME4-major parts of 7 are good enough, but the ending sucks.  Well, who is the fool then?  Personally, I don't trust BW to not do that.  I cared about Shepard-great stories make that happen.  In the end, BW doesn't seem to.  So, they will expect us to care about a new hero while this one is either dead from having their skin burned off or laying ambiguously in a pile of rubble.  Not likely.

And it isn't only those who openly dislike all this they must convince-it's all those people that said the EC kinda sorta fixed the endings enough for them, but they're done with BW.  There's still a chance to retain and add fans.  One last chance.

And I find this post of yours kind of odd, since you have previously indicated support for alternative ending DLC.  Now, you don't want it for some reason.

[Hexley UK]

doodiebody wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

 Temper your expectations.

I can't be the only one that finds this hilarious.  The official post responding to fan optimism that something cool might be coming is basically "People, people, people...remember, this is just DLC.  Expect it to be mediocre and only loosely tied to the main story."

We have our tagline right there.....

Mass Effect 3:Whatever "People, people, people...remember, this is just DLC.  Expect it to be mediocre and only loosely tied to the main story." $15.99

[3DandBeyond]

doodiebody wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

 Temper your expectations.

I can't be the only one that finds this hilarious.  The official post responding to fan optimism that something cool might be coming is basically "People, people, people...remember, this is just DLC.  Expect it to be mediocre and only loosely tied to the main story."

Oh this is so true.  It's like saying "be prepared to not like it so if it's bad you won't be disappointed."

Kind of goes against the hype they already started when they said it was "all hands on deck" with all the writers getting in on it and all.  Oh right hype is never good.