67 réponses à ce sujet

[CrazyRah]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

*perfect text*

It's almost uncanny how much i agree with you here. Was about to say something like this myself but it was a much more thought out post and way better worded than i'd have done myself.

[Beerfish]

The reasons for BSN?

1) BioWare finally had a couple of games where their regular fans were openly disappointed with the game content. this basically gave permission to a whole host of people who never liked BioWare or its games to open up with both barrels and try and 'recruit' so to speak.

2) Lax moderation. I am not being too critical of the existing moderators but BioWare needs to add a good number of community moderators and totally clamp down on the bad apples and bad threads. I'm not sure if they are afraid of being criticized for being seen as stopping threads negative towards their games or not but this site should be ruled with a much tighter fist as the older forums were. This is the classic example of you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Modifié par Beerfish, 23 janvier 2013 - 04:39 .

[Emzamination]

In all my years on this forum, I can safely say from my point of view, the toxic environment is in the minds of sensitive users who let negativity get to them.

I've been on the bsn for years and been in hundreds of arguments, been insulted, threatened, cursed out and not once has any of that gotten to me or made me feel bad about myself. Why? simple, #1 I don't care and #2 I don't take this fourm with me post-log out.

Hell, this is what popped from googling my own username yesterday. It's amusing, yet sad to see how people carry the bsn with them like a turtle carries its shell. I could never live like that.

[Arcadian Legend]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
 *snip*

You hit the nail on the head harder than it could ever be hit. For BSN at least. As for the Internet as a whole, part of it is down to good old user anonymity I'd say, and it doesn't look like it'll be getting better anytime soon.

[Centauri2002]

I'm unsure whether so-called toxicity has worsened in recent times or not. I think the internet has evolved in such a way that everything is so better connected. From social sites to news networks, we receive the latest in what people are speaking, thinking and doing. There is a myriad of information readily available for us from all over the world so, perhaps, we are merely more aware of the views out there.

Also, it seems to me that negativity is more easily noticed that positive views or events. One just has to take a look at a newspaper or a news broadcast and it is littered with bad news. The same goes for social networking sites, in my experience. Aside from the mundane, my feeds are usually populated with links to various things that has outraged the poster. Perhaps we are in an age now where we are simply looking for things to challenge and struggle against, no matter how seemingly minor they may be.

I think this issue goes far beyond the BSN though, and way beyond gaming and the internet.

Edited to add: This also makes me think of the 'compensation culture'. For example, in the last decades, we have seen the rise of things such as accident and injury claim companies. Particularly where I have lived, we're often bombarded with pushing blame on others and, perhaps, we are made to feel as though others owe us something if we are unhappy with a situation, whether there is blame involved or not. I think that might tie into the seemingly growing sense of entitlement we are seeing. Of course, these sorts of matters should be analysed by someone far more intelligent than I.

Modifié par centauri2002, 23 janvier 2013 - 04:43 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

What 'CrustyBot', 'Fast Jimmy' and 'hangmans tree' said. Edit: + eroeru, Lotion Soronnar and J. Reezy!

The problem is too complex and maybe unsolvable.

Modifié par Legatus Arianus, 23 janvier 2013 - 05:03 .

[DiebytheSword]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Internet also provides anonimity (meaning you cna get away with a lot of stuff easily) and the rise of piracy and free/indy developers also caused the rise in the feeling of entiltement.

IMHO, the current generations of internet dwellers are spoiled, rotten primadonnas and rant and rave against everything without properly thinking or without any restraint.

I find it hilarious that so long as we don't discuss the collector base, I generally agree with things you say.  Here again is a good example.

The current generation is a generation of helecopter parenting and entitlement.  They tend to feel they are owed things, and when they are nearly completely anonymized by the internet, they let it rip.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Filament wrote...

Why does culture shift? Why did people stop wearing tophats?

Because new so-called cool people dictate fashion and can declare something old lame and after sometime their fans and the others follow... that's why there isn't interesting hats in the market right now or they're quite expensive. I'm talking about different kind of hats since 17th century till 1950s-60s, not Baseball hat or other cheap hats!

There is influential individuals and groups in societies, that can change their society and culture over time from people to government direction or the reverse. Plus natural phenomena, new technologies and MEDIA.

Modifié par Legatus Arianus, 23 janvier 2013 - 05:37 .

[Centauri2002]

Filament wrote...

Why does culture shift? Why did people stop wearing tophats?

Adaptivity to outside stimulii. It's just human nature. Now this is within the scope of my expertise.

But there's absolutely no excuse for not continuing to wear tophats.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

centauri2002 wrote...

Filament wrote...

Why does culture shift? Why did people stop wearing tophats?

Adaptivity to outside stimulii. It's just human nature. Now this is within the scope of my expertise.

But there's absolutely no excuse for not continuing to wear tophats.

I hope you don't want to explain Social, Cultural and Philosophical matters with "Biology".

[Centauri2002]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Filament wrote...

Why does culture shift? Why did people stop wearing tophats?

Adaptivity to outside stimulii. It's just human nature. Now this is within the scope of my expertise.

But there's absolutely no excuse for not continuing to wear tophats.

I hope you don't want to explain Social, Cultural and Philosophical matters with "Biology".

Biology didn't cross my mind. My expertise lies within archaeology and prehistoric human societies so I've studied a lot of changes within different cultures. Not sure why you concluded biology from what I said.

[Volus Warlord]

Well..

As a rather toxic member of the community (LD50 of < 10 micrograms per kilogram) I can say this:

It's a two way street.

First off, Jimmy speaks the truth about the disappointments we found in ME3 and DA2 and how they set a negative tone.

But besides that, the forum I believe has become rather polarized.

Old timers hate the new fans. Vice Versa.

Bi0drones hate the haters. Vice Versa.

The Bi Brigade hate the Anti-Bi Crusaders. Vice versa.

And so on and so forth.

But, I do not feel moderation or Bioware as a whole has helped this situation. I'll even say they fueled it. Even disregarding ME3 and DA2, some of the comments made by Bioware Employees have been the most polarizing statements made. Hepler, Gaider, etc. etc. picked sides, insulted people, and/or so on and so forth. Even if their statements were less extreme than the forumites, the spotlight they have made their impact monstrous. It's crazy, but it's the way it is.

Also, about the "bad apples:" I have come to a conclusion. There are no truly "good apples." Everyone's got a stick up their ass about something. This place is no exception. So you could go on a perma-ban spree, lock out the people that you feel were malignant, but you wouldn't exactly be left with a bunch of intellectual saints.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

At least Emzamination isn't a name used elsewhere on the Internet. I've been called Fast Jimmy most of my adult life (started in highschool - not for the reasons one might think), but it seems it is not a unique name at all.

Maybe I should change my name to Slow James. A Google search doesn't pop anything up for that.

As a further derailment of the topic, I am a little offended that the linked drinking game doesn't have a rule of taking a shot when I bash the Save Import. That would definitely be a quick way to get drunk.

[MassStorm]

I would say it is the blame of game-industry who wants only to capitalize on us gamers. Creating all smart techniques to annoy the consumers. , (DRM, online pass, anti-used games policies, Day 1 DLCs, microtransactions..and so on..). The game industry became too corporate (only profit seeking) thus people being annoyed by the same games being proposed only to enlarge the target audience. People are fed up with this thus the ciritcs.

[TheClonesLegacy]

I haven't noticed it growing, the Toxicity was always there, I've always been aware of it, and I'm shocked none of you noticed it.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Well..

As a rather toxic member of the community (LD50 of < 10 micrograms per kilogram) I can say this:

It's a two way street.

First off, Jimmy speaks the truth about the disappointments we found in ME3 and DA2 and how they set a negative tone.

But besides that, the forum I believe has become rather polarized.

Old timers hate the new fans. Vice Versa.

Bi0drones hate the haters. Vice Versa.

The Bi Brigade hate the Anti-Bi Crusaders. Vice versa.

And so on and so forth.

But, I do not feel moderation or Bioware as a whole has helped this situation. I'll even say they fueled it. Even disregarding ME3 and DA2, some of the comments made by Bioware Employees have been the most polarizing statements made. Hepler, Gaider, etc. etc. picked sides, insulted people, and/or so on and so forth. Even if their statements were less extreme than the forumites, the spotlight they have made their impact monstrous. It's crazy, but it's the way it is.

Also, about the "bad apples:" I have come to a conclusion. There are no truly "good apples." Everyone's got a stick up their ass about something. This place is no exception. So you could go on a perma-ban spree, lock out the people that you feel were malignant, but you wouldn't exactly be left with a bunch of intellectual saints.

Agreed 100%.

[Naughty Bear]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Well..

As a rather toxic member of the community (LD50 of < 10 micrograms per kilogram) I can say this:

It's a two way street.

First off, Jimmy speaks the truth about the disappointments we found in ME3 and DA2 and how they set a negative tone.

But besides that, the forum I believe has become rather polarized.

Old timers hate the new fans. Vice Versa.

Bi0drones hate the haters. Vice Versa.

The Bi Brigade hate the Anti-Bi Crusaders. Vice versa.

And so on and so forth.

But, I do not feel moderation or Bioware as a whole has helped this situation. I'll even say they fueled it. Even disregarding ME3 and DA2, some of the comments made by Bioware Employees have been the most polarizing statements made. Hepler, Gaider, etc. etc. picked sides, insulted people, and/or so on and so forth. Even if their statements were less extreme than the forumites, the spotlight they have made their impact monstrous. It's crazy, but it's the way it is.

Also, about the "bad apples:" I have come to a conclusion. There are no truly "good apples." Everyone's got a stick up their ass about something. This place is no exception. So you could go on a perma-ban spree, lock out the people that you feel were malignant, but you wouldn't exactly be left with a bunch of intellectual saints.

Pretty much this.

But personally, I think the gaming industry is just making it worst. The toxicity was always there, just not apparent and the constant ways game companies try to nickle and dime us has just made the gaming community become more cynical, miserable and pessimistic as a whole.

The toxicity will grow and become more apparent as long as companies who use similar business practices similar to EA.

But it's not just the gaming community, it's the critic side as well. Gamers are extremably cynical about them too. Every IGN news I read, many comments are negative about it.

Look at cd projekt red, people sing songs of joy all over gaming communities and on the forums you see actual optimistic comments and threads.

[upsettingshorts]

I blame EA.

More specifically, I blame the way gamers view EA. Everything they do is interpreted through a specific lens of angry, frustrated distrust, whether it is actually called for or not.  Case in point, and you can and will continue to see this, should BioWare do something a person likes in whatever EA published game... BioWare is given credit. You never see EA given credit.  Something a user doesn't like?  Sure plenty of folks blame BioWare.  But EA is also thrown under the bus too.  It's confirmation bias at it's most pervasive.

Their business practices are not unique. They are not uniformly unreasonable. But because they're EA, they get the crap for them smaller companies - that engage in many of the same ones, and plenty of their own we could question if we treated them the same way - get a pass.

My belief in this is so strong, that I'm really only going to interpret anyone who disagree with me below as more evidence.

Keep hating EA guys! You're really bringing a valuable and consistent perspective to the subject.  It really provides insight into the process of making games and displays a truly astonishing amount of respect for the truth.

Naughty Bear wrote...

Look at cd projekt red, people sing songs of joy all over gaming communities and on the forums you see actual optimistic comments and threads.

Two reasons:

They're small... or more accurately, are interpreted as smaller than they are.  Little guys get the benefit of the doubt.  Like how that circular interface and list inventory in TW2 was a pretty clear sign that their marketing pandering about how TW2 would remain a PC exclusive was... well, predictable .  Not that I care about such things either way, but if EA did that they'd be breaking out the torches and pitchforks.  If you didn't care that CDPR clearly intended to port TW2 to consoles from the start, and included console friendly elements in the UI, because you enjoyed their game?  Great, good for you.  Start treating EA the same when they do it.  

You're only as good as your last game.  Gamers, even ones who love to wrap themselves in the title of "loyal," are among the most fickle people around.  Should Cyberpunk tank, this bullet point would rapidly disappear, but the damage would be minimized because of the first point.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 janvier 2013 - 07:11 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Keep hating EA guys! You're really bringing a valuable and consistent perspective to the subject.  It really provides insight into the process of making games and displays a truly astonishing amount of respect for the truth.

Because Dead Space 3 style microtransactions are the future and should be embraced. When company leadership envisions a day when they can get people paying real money for ammunition, they should be applauded for ingenuity. Yeah, EA has done a lot to advance the entire industry. Lets all look foward to them acquiring THQ and devaluing some more franchises.

I suppose most here are just too privileged to see the truth.