329 réponses à ce sujet

[Blarg]

suprhomre wrote...

100% for multiplayer

[Nissun]

Cyonan wrote...

Nissun wrote...

I didn't say gay/straight, I said gay/lesbian. As long as they are similar-ish it'll be okay.

I'm just fed up with bioware's policy of "lesbians r hot, gays are eww"

Wasn't there 1 of each? Cortez and Traynor?

If you're counting bi that's probably a losing battle since, you know, Asari.

Yes, I am counting that. Of course I am counting that.

It's really depressing if you start counting not just the romance options, but simply the casual mentions to same sex relationships between women, and compare it to mentions/hints at male homosexuality.

Long story short, it's REALLY depressing. I even made a chart about it.

[Cassandra Saturn]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

suprhomre wrote...

100% for multiplayer

ME4 will come with its own MP

[Cyonan]

Nissun wrote...

Yes, I am counting that. Of course I am counting that.

It's really depressing if you start counting not just the romance options, but simply the casual mentions to same sex relationships between women, and compare it to mentions/hints at male homosexuality.

Long story short, it's REALLY depressing. I even made a chart about it.

Unfortunately as I said, you probably wont win because that is simply how the Asari have been written.

Unless they introduce a species of all males that can somehow reproduce, it's nigh impossible to compete with an entire species that is bi-sexual.

[Dorje Sylas]

Cyonan wrote...

Dorje Sylas wrote...
I just don't think they can do it, not if they follow the same development path of keeping PC and console code in lockstep. They really should have taken advantage of the PC port to run pre-content release betas, put in more debug tools (such as full display of actual numerical values, visual displays of key variables). Frankly they didn't leverage the community very well and over seem to have treated us like moronic ingrates, while they held back all the critical information.

On this note I should say that giving the community debugging tools doesn't actually do a whole lot in most cases, and BioWare has internal debugging tools that can let them see all the actual numerical values(or at least I hope they do).

Even in the hands of a programmer like me, I can only guess as to what is going on but I can't actually guarantee anything because I can't see and modify the source code.

I've had plenty of cases where a user could see the numbers and said to me "Oh that seems easy to fix, all you gotta do is change X".

and as it turns out not only does changing X not fix the problem, but it also breaks Y.

 


See this is where the trust thing comes in. I don't trust that they do have decent internal debugging tools. The continual goofs over the weapon weight modifications by 'add-ons' are a prime example.
I do enough coding and debugging for my degree to appreciate how hard tracking down flaws in complex programs can be (and to rage at under documented, incomplete APIs you can't do a thing about and just have work around). On the flip side when the program is that complex it kidna gets even more importantance to building in some good feedback output during debugging.
There is also the fact that things like the Vorcha Hunter shock net having the worng values, the Volus shield boost power-lock out, and other numerous examples of errors caught by BSN players that slip by their internal testing and get locked in becuase of the back-asswards way the console gatekeepers run their shows. Can you honestly tell me that if they were pushing beta test stuff out to the PC users before shipping code to Microsoft and Sony we'd be seeing some for bigger 'doh' level blunders get locked in? Or at least not be seeing the Devs trying to scramble retroactively to fix things in what limited ways they can post lock-in. 
Point: Use PCs playing community for final "gamma" test before shipping code to Consoles, where it will get locked in rather permanently. 

[Iaenic]

To answer the original question, I have two thoughts.

1. If you had asked me before ME3's release if I would purchase it, I would have answered a resounding and emphatic YES! However, the loss of the original scriptwriter and fumbling of the ending has left me unsatisfied and concerned for the continuation of the series in ME4. I'm not particularly interested in a prequel, and any sequels have been set up with a pretty rough foundation... So, i'm going to take a wait and see approach and hope they can pull their scriptwriting together.

2. As far as people saying that Mass Effect 3's multiplayer is still beta, I would agree with you. However, not for the reasons you expect. I consider this to be a very good and encouraging thing.

I think it was fairly well understood that Mass Effect 3's multiplayer was a suprise addition to a strong single player game that could have easily done well without it. Multiplayer was an unneccessary but welcome value-add. An experiment to see if the series could birth a successfull multiplayer and attract a player base.

In that regard I think it's a success! The multiplayer community has lasted far longer than I think most people expected, in part I think due to the strong support it's received from the developers. Is it still buggy and in need of balance and improvement? Absolutely, and that's to be expected for a first generation addon. The same could be said of Mass Effect 1 singleplayer, and Mass Effect 2 corrected many of it's original flaws from the lessons learned in that game. I expect it will be the same with the transition to ME3 MP and ME4 MP. ME3 multiplayer will continue to be rough around the edges for the duration of it's lifespan. That doesn't make it any less endearing for fans like me.

The developers have already proven that they listen to player feedback, and their ongoing support for this part of the game is in my opinion, pretty unprecidented. It gives me very strong hopes that they will take the lessons learned from this "Open Beta" and make an even more awesome multiplayer for ME4. Some of the bugs will be easier to fix in the next generation anyways, when they can build from the engine-up with lessons learned here.

So, TLDR: I'm super hesitant about singleplayer, but I expect multiplayer will grow by leaps and may be worth a purchase in of itself.

[Daxamite]

prob yes. Unless there are some bad player reviews (I wont trust official reviews after the debacle of IGN review of ME3

[mrs_anomaly]

YES. And it will the last chance for Bioware and me. I'm going to purchase the CE of DAIII. If they mess up DAIII significantly and ME4, sadly, we will have to part ways.

[Cyonan]

Dorje Sylas wrote...
See this is where the trust thing comes in. I don't trust that they do have decent internal debugging tools. The continual goofs over the weapon weight modifications by 'add-ons' are a prime example.
I do enough coding and debugging for my degree to appreciate how hard tracking down flaws in complex programs can be (and to rage at under documented, incomplete APIs you can't do a thing about and just have work around). On the flip side when the program is that complex it kidna gets even more importantance to building in some good feedback output during debugging.
There is also the fact that things like the Vorcha Hunter shock net having the worng values, the Volus shield boost power-lock out, and other numerous examples of errors caught by BSN players that slip by their internal testing and get locked in becuase of the back-asswards way the console gatekeepers run their shows. Can you honestly tell me that if they were pushing beta test stuff out to the PC users before shipping code to Microsoft and Sony we'd be seeing some for bigger 'doh' level blunders get locked in? Or at least not be seeing the Devs trying to scramble retroactively to fix things in what limited ways they can post lock-in. 
Point: Use PCs playing community for final "gamma" test before shipping code to Consoles, where it will get locked in rather permanently. 

Using PC as testing grounds, as much as it would probably annoy some PC players, would work better since you can test your own code in a live setting.

What I was referring to was you specifically pointing out that they should give us debugging tools that let us see the important variables. That's just going to do more harm than good because the vast majority of people aren't going to understand the readout but they'll have no problems telling BioWare how to do their jobs based on it.

Even the people that do understand the readout aren't going to be able to get the whole picture. I could take a guess as to what caused the Vanguard glitch, and it would even be an educated guess, but it would still just be a guess.

It's not really up to the players to attempt to find the source of the problem, because we can't see the whole picture. We're better off giving specifics as to how we can get it to occur rather than our opinions on what's causing it. We can do that just fine without variable readouts.

[Nissun]

Cyonan wrote...

Nissun wrote...

Yes, I am counting that. Of course I am counting that.

It's really depressing if you start counting not just the romance options, but simply the casual mentions to same sex relationships between women, and compare it to mentions/hints at male homosexuality.

Long story short, it's REALLY depressing. I even made a chart about it.

Unfortunately as I said, you probably wont win because that is simply how the Asari have been written.

Unless they introduce a species of all males that can somehow reproduce, it's nigh impossible to compete with an entire species that is bi-sexual.

That's not what I want. I just want them not to actively avoid gay men, while they throw lesbians casually all over the place with no problem whatsoever.

I get it, most videogame players are hetero guys. But they are not going to catch the gay just for, say, reading a journal entry about a turian soldier saying goodbye to his dead husband on his deathbed. Little things like that also matter.

[ThomasakaDes_]

At some point, becaus it'll probably be on the next gens.
Unless I have the next gens before it gets released, then I'll get it on release day. But I'll be playing the sp before mp. And I might play the sp more than once, depending on how good it is.

[Yate]

Maybe, if it looks good. I'm not a MUST BUY THIS or MUST BOYCOTT THIS guy, if it looks good and is on sale, I'll buy it.

[jakenou]

I MOST LIKELY WILL, YES

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Nissun wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Nissun wrote...

I didn't say gay/straight, I said gay/lesbian. As long as they are similar-ish it'll be okay.

I'm just fed up with bioware's policy of "lesbians r hot, gays are eww"

Wasn't there 1 of each? Cortez and Traynor?

If you're counting bi that's probably a losing battle since, you know, Asari.

Yes, I am counting that. Of course I am counting that.

It's really depressing if you start counting not just the romance options, but simply the casual mentions to same sex relationships between women, and compare it to mentions/hints at male homosexuality.

Long story short, it's REALLY depressing. I even made a chart about it.

I got you.  This does reflect a double standard that seems to exist in our society, especially among straight young males.  The whole lesbians are hot, but being gay as a man is inappropriate thing.  Apparently, being gay as a man makes you less of a man, but women are allowed to lez it up while retaining their femininity.  It's ridiculous if you ask me.

[Cyonan]

Nissun wrote...
That's not what I want. I just want them not to actively avoid gay men, while they throw lesbians casually all over the place with no problem whatsoever.

I get it, most videogame players are hetero guys. But they are not going to catch the gay just for, say, reading a journal entry about a turian soldier saying goodbye to his dead husband on his deathbed. Little things like that also matter.

I get what you're saying, but statements like "not to actively avoid gay men" loses much of its' weight when characters like Cortez exist, and Kaiden became a male love interest of which the game makes note of if you are playing a male Shep, even if you are already in a relationship(assuming Kaiden is still alive and you actually talk to him).

Yes there are a lot more mentions of female/female and even I notice that despite the fact that I'm not actively looking for it. As I mentioned, when you've got an entire species of bi-sexual women, it's quite easy to write in relationships involving 2 women. I imagine the majority of those relationships involve an Asari at some point.

I'm not trying to convince you to get the game regardless. You can not buy the game because you don't like the colour of the BioWare logo for all I care, I'm just saying I'd probably prepare to get disappointed given the existance of the Asari.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Cyonan wrote...

Nissun wrote...
That's not what I want. I just want them not to actively avoid gay men, while they throw lesbians casually all over the place with no problem whatsoever.

I get it, most videogame players are hetero guys. But they are not going to catch the gay just for, say, reading a journal entry about a turian soldier saying goodbye to his dead husband on his deathbed. Little things like that also matter.

I get what you're saying, but statements like "not to actively avoid gay men" loses much of its' weight when characters like Cortez exist, and Kaiden became a male love interest of which the game makes note of if you are playing a male Shep, even if you are already in a relationship(assuming Kaiden is still alive and you actually talk to him).

Yes there are a lot more mentions of female/female and even I notice that despite the fact that I'm not actively looking for it. As I mentioned, when you've got an entire species of bi-sexual women, it's quite easy to write in relationships involving 2 women. I imagine the majority of those relationships involve an Asari at some point.

I'm not trying to convince you to get the game regardless. You can not buy the game because you don't like the colour of the BioWare logo for all I care, I'm just saying I'd probably prepare to get disappointed given the existance of the Asari.

That's what I was thinking - that most of what he's describing is due to the existence of the Asari.  But maybe he feels that's a problem in and of itself - that there exists a bi-sexual female race, but not a bi-sexual male race?

[Cyonan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
That's what I was thinking - that most of what he's describing is due to the existence of the Asari. But maybe he feels that's a problem in and of itself - that there exists a bi-sexual female race, but not a bi-sexual male race?

It could be, but that's how things have been written since the series launched.

All they could do at this point is introduce a new species that is made up entirely of bi-sexual males that are capable of reproducing via some form of space magic.

Though if they end up being a male equivilant of the Asari, there's going to be complaints about that.

[Nissun]

Cyonan wrote...

I get what you're saying, but statements like "not to actively avoid gay men" loses much of its' weight when characters like Cortez exist, and Kaiden became a male love interest of which the game makes note of if you are playing a male Shep, even if you are already in a relationship(assuming Kaiden is still alive and you actually talk to him).

But that's precisely my point: I had to wait for the third game to come up for the first mention of males being gay or bi, ever. Meanwhile, my femShepard has been able to romance Liara, get it on with the Asari Consort, romance Kelly and flirt with Samara. And sit down to watch female strippers.

And even then, while Cortez is certainly awesome, Kaidan is only gay if you pursue the romance. I think. I don't care much for Kaidan to be honest, so I don't remember right now.

Yes there are a lot more mentions of female/female and even I notice that despite the fact that I'm not actively looking for it. As I mentioned, when you've got an entire species of bi-sexual women, it's quite easy to write in relationships involving 2 women. I imagine the majority of those relationships involve an Asari at some point.

It all comes from the same root, and that is that a race of all-female attractive aliens is a male fantasy. And I get that. Hell, if I made my own science fiction game I can't guarantee I wouldn't do the same with an all-male species. It's just that for a mainstream release, it's a really immature attitude.

I'm not trying to convince you to get the game regardless. You can not buy the game because you don't like the colour of the BioWare logo for all I care, I'm just saying I'd probably prepare to get disappointed given the existance of the Asari.

I was kinda exaggerating a bit. There are other things that irk me about how Mass Effect has grown, and I don't think it's going to get any better in the 4th. This one is not the only thing, it's just one of the most jarring in my point of view, because it's a juvenile, immature issue that drains a lot of dignity from the game.

[xBUMMx]

Cyonan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
That's what I was thinking - that most of what he's describing is due to the existence of the Asari. But maybe he feels that's a problem in and of itself - that there exists a bi-sexual female race, but not a bi-sexual male race?

It could be, but that's how things have been written since the series launched.

All they could do at this point is introduce a new species that is made up entirely of bi-sexual males that are capable of reproducing via some form of space magic.

Though if they end up being a male equivilant of the Asari, there's going to be complaints about that.

It should also be mentioned that Kaidan is a possible gay love interest but Ashley isn't, if I'm correct.

Also, I don't think Bioware is really that avoiding of gay men in general, I mean, look at Dragon Age. Practically everyone in Thedas is bi apparently, which I honestly saw as more unrealistic as the Asari.

Modifié par xBUMMx, 23 janvier 2013 - 09:29 .

[brad2240]

Yes, immediately upon release.

[Nissun]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

That's what I was thinking - that most of what he's describing is due to the existence of the Asari.  But maybe he feels that's a problem in and of itself - that there exists a bi-sexual female race, but not a bi-sexual male race?

Well, no. But just, you know, more than two mentions at men being anything other than hetero in the entire trilogy. Hell, even if you don't count the Asari, you still have: Kelly, Samantha, Diana Allers, Khalisa Al Jilani, Nyreen, Nef, and Jack.

Just some kind of awknowledgement, you know? We had to wait until the third game for the issue to be even mentioned at all. I'm not asking for stripclubs full of half naked male Turian dancers*. Just that maybe, in the same way that Nyreen happened to be lesbian, maybe some other npc could mention being gay too. In a tasteful, mature way. Just little things like that.


*(although this would be awesome)

[Bayonet Hipshot]

NO.

I will be saving that money for Cyberpunk 2077 which will be a better.

[PR PistonRage]

I have bought all three so yes. I am praying someone buys the publishing rights though so we can wave bye bye to the aweful EA servers and rip off multiplayer store. This I know will probably not happen though.

[Nissun]

xBUMMx wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
That's what I was thinking - that most of what he's describing is due to the existence of the Asari. But maybe he feels that's a problem in and of itself - that there exists a bi-sexual female race, but not a bi-sexual male race?

It could be, but that's how things have been written since the series launched.

All they could do at this point is introduce a new species that is made up entirely of bi-sexual males that are capable of reproducing via some form of space magic.

Though if they end up being a male equivilant of the Asari, there's going to be complaints about that.

It should also be mentioned that Kaidan is a possible gay love interest but Ashley isn't, if I'm correct.

Maybe they decided not to make her a love interest because gee, there is a boatload of females to fem-romance already. Having one hetero woman here and there doesn't hurt.

Also, I don't think Bioware is really that avoiding of gay men in general, I mean, look at Dragon Age. Practically everyone in Thedas is bi apparently, which I honestly saw as more unrealistic as the Asari.

I'm talking about Mass Effect only. I've only played Dragon Age 1, and I think the system of "two hetero, two bi" is kind of okay. At least your Warden is allowed to be gay.

I'm not sure what you mean by "everyone on Thedas", since the only bisexual characters I know are Leliana and Zevran, but I don't want to derail this thread, so please send me a private message if you want to add something.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Nissun wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

That's what I was thinking - that most of what he's describing is due to the existence of the Asari.  But maybe he feels that's a problem in and of itself - that there exists a bi-sexual female race, but not a bi-sexual male race?

Well, no. But just, you know, more than two mentions at men being anything other than hetero in the entire trilogy. Hell, even if you don't count the Asari, you still have: Kelly, Samantha, Diana Allers, Khalisa Al Jilani, Nyreen, Nef, and Jack.

Just some kind of awknowledgement, you know? We had to wait until the third game for the issue to be even mentioned at all. I'm not asking for stripclubs full of half naked male Turian dancers*. Just that maybe, in the same way that Nyreen happened to be lesbian, maybe some other npc could mention being gay too. In a tasteful, mature way. Just little things like that.


*(although this would be awesome)

I get what you're saying.  I don't think it's any secret that the game caters to what it thinks a young male demographic wants to see.  Most of the female characters have ridiculously "ample assets."  Look at Miranda for God's sake and that outfit they put her in.  Could they be any more blatant in their pandering?