220 réponses à ce sujet

[Sejborg]

Nope

[TheRealJayDee]

GHNR wrote...

As for your immortality and over-population point, I wouldn't worry too much about that considering we have the knowledge of the Reapers on our side.

Ooookay, this doesn't sound scary at all...?!  

[Mouton_Alpha]

Meltemph wrote...

No, it is making decions with incomplete data. There are some clues which can be basis for decision, as long as we realize there are significant risks and uncertainties. THEY ARE based on what Catalyst says, and they are a leap of faith but many real life decions are like that, especially ones done under pressure.

This actually is my point. People are not choosing it because of the surety of it, but because they like the decision or dislike a consequence of a sure decision. When you have 4 options, and only one of them have a definite explanation, when the entire galaxy is at stake...well.

Well, this is simply your personal preference of risk levels. Different people have different approaches in this matter, but making high risk decisions is not irrational itself.

[Wayning_Star]

Isn't synthesis a bit like...the canon ending to the MEU trilogy..

[dorktainian]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Isn't synthesis a bit like...the canon ending to the MEU trilogy..

no.  the canon ending is buzz aldrin (at the moment)

[GethPrimeMKII]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Right.  There's always the super-satisfying option of genociding the geth, thereby negating one of the high points of the game. 

Or becoming a Reaper.

Killing the geth was one of the high points of the game.

Also, you don't become a Reaper in Control; you get vaporized and your memories and basic personality get uploaded into the Citadel and take control of the Reapers. Admittedly that's still pretty dumb, but it's not evil or anything.

Sure, it's not evil. At least until Reaper-Overlord-God-Shepard becomes corrupted by all that power.

[Karlone123]

MacroSpamMK wrote...

In Synthesis, if a human gets shot, does blood pour out...or do sparks fly out?

Battery acid?

[His Name was HYR!!]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Meltemph wrote...
It isnt "horrible", because we dont really know what it did

That's a ridiculous line of thinking...
That's what experimenting on people is...

You don't know what it will do...
You essentially are saying mass human experimentation isn't horrible...

Good thing we actually do know what it will do.

LOL, no you don't.  You don't know what it will do when you make the choice, you don't know what it will do afterwards.  You just headcanon that you do, to justify your own decision.

Good work Dr Frankenstein.

Gecko, baby! Just who I was looking for...

I heard you didn't like my explanations of indoctrination in this thread.

Tell me, what exactly did you take issue with here? Don't hold back. Afterall, censorship kills healthy debate! 

[GethPrimeMKII]

Mass genetic alteration is ethically wrong on many levels.

[Kel Riever]

I recommend the Synthesis ending immediately cut to this:

Modifié par Kel Riever, 24 janvier 2013 - 05:15 .

[Mouton_Alpha]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Mass genetic alteration is ethically wrong on many levels.

So is practically any solution introduced on an universal level.

[His Name was HYR!!]

dorktainian wrote...

ElSuperGecko

Nice signature. Synthesis in a nutshell.

Strange, considering the vision came at a time when Bioware hadn't decided what the Reapers were.

They were considering hybrids, but they were also considering pure tech.

[GethPrimeMKII]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

ElSuperGecko

Nice signature. Synthesis in a nutshell.

Strange, considering the vision came at a time when Bioware hadn't decided what the Reapers were.

They were considering hybrids, but they were also considering pure tech.

Where are you getting these facts from?

[Dextro Milk]

Hey, as long as Synthesis doesn't ruin my milk, I'm all set. 

[ElSuperGecko]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Gecko, baby! Just who I was looking for...

Hullo.

HYR 2.0 wrote...
I heard you didn't like my explanations of indoctrination in this thread.  Tell me, what exactly did you take issue with here? Don't hold back. Afterall, censorship kills healthy debate! 

Indeed it does.  As you wish, this thread is now about indoctrination!  YAY!

My issues weren't so much about your explanations themselves - more about the quibbling over the timesscale indoctrination takes.

"The codex states days or weeks"/"Shepard was unconcious near Object Rho in Arrival for two days"/"yes, days or WEEKS" etc.

The bickering over the length of time indoctrination requires seemed to develop into nothing more than sematics.  Especially when you consider that the effect of Reaper exposure on Reaper influence is cumulative.  Shepard has been around Reaper tech for years.  Not days, not weeks, not months, Shepard has been encountering it for years.  Reaper indoctrination effects do not fade away over time (as seen by the fate of Rana Thanoptis); they merely lie dormant, and increase with each additional piece of exposure.

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
ElSuperGecko

Strange, considering the vision came at a time when Bioware hadn't decided what the Reapers were.

Not strange.  The Prothean Becaon vision clearly foreshadows the potential horror of Synthesis, even if it wasn't originally intended that way.  In ME1, it was a warning.  In ME2,. it showed the fate of the Reapers.  In ME3 it became a foreshadowing of Synthesis, simply through the way the Synthesis ending was described.

Saren's "vision of the future" is also foreshadowing Synthesis - again, not necessarily because that was how it was originally planned, but because of how ME3's ending was written.

That's what people misunderstand about foreshadowing when it comes to episodic fiction.  It doesn't not necessarily need to have been deliberately planned or planted from the very beginning.  The Catalyst's description of Synthesis was written in a way which directly and deliberately leads the player BACK to his earlier conversations with Saren, BACK to the Prothean Beacon vision, BACK to the fate of the Collectors.  Because of this, these earlier events now foreshadow that particular decision.

"We have tried a... similar solution before".

[GethPrimeMKII]

To clarify HYR, the reapers were originally speculated by the characters in game to be nothing more than highly advanced machines. It isn't until the confrontation with the human reaper that we learn the reapers are a fusion of organic and synthetic materials.

Which brings us to the problem with synthesis. The catalyst offers you a chance to turn everyone into a synthetic organic hybrid. The reapers are synthetic organic hybrids. The words may be sweetened, but the underlying meaning is clear: The catalyst wants you to side with the reapers and harvest you and everyone else.

[Mouton_Alpha]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Which brings us to the problem with synthesis. The catalyst offers you a chance to turn everyone into a synthetic organic hybrid. The reapers are synthetic organic hybrids. The words may be sweetened, but the underlying meaning is clear: The catalyst wants you to side with the reapers and harvest you and everyone else.

This is only true if we assume there can be only one kind of synthetic-organic fusion. The reaper creation proccess description is very wobbly, but it does seem the organics become little more than building blocks "preserved" in a Reaper form. In Synthesis, organics seem to retain their individuality. Of course, you can assume that both the Catalyst and the ending lie, but then all bets are off.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Which brings us to the problem with synthesis. The catalyst offers you a chance to turn everyone into a synthetic organic hybrid. The reapers are synthetic organic hybrids. The words may be sweetened, but the underlying meaning is clear: The catalyst wants you to side with the reapers and harvest you and everyone else.

This is only true if we assume there can be only one kind of synthetic-organic fusion. The reaper creation proccess description is very wobbly, but it does seem the organics become little more than building blocks "preserved" in a Reaper form. In Synthesis, organics seem to retain their individuality. Of course, you can assume that both the Catalyst and the ending lie, but then all bets are off.

Are you sure they retain their individuality? If that was true, the hatred and resent felt for the reapes by all would still remain. Since that is no longer the case, indiviuality has not been retained. Javik of all people should be desperate to kill more reapers, yet he's at peace in Synthesis? 

Synthesis altered everyone's minds as well as bodies. Their minds have been altered to be at peace with and accept the reapers. The Mass Effect universe has a term for such a thing: Indoctrination.

Modifié par GethPrimeMKII, 24 janvier 2013 - 06:05 .

[Karlone123]

I never spare the Reapers, they are mass-murdering machines who have killed and harvested countless beings for an unkown amount of time. Too many lives lost to let them live, so they get destroyed.

[Mouton_Alpha]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Which brings us to the problem with synthesis. The catalyst offers you a chance to turn everyone into a synthetic organic hybrid. The reapers are synthetic organic hybrids. The words may be sweetened, but the underlying meaning is clear: The catalyst wants you to side with the reapers and harvest you and everyone else.

This is only true if we assume there can be only one kind of synthetic-organic fusion. The reaper creation proccess description is very wobbly, but it does seem the organics become little more than building blocks "preserved" in a Reaper form. In Synthesis, organics seem to retain their individuality. Of course, you can assume that both the Catalyst and the ending lie, but then all bets are off.

Are you sure they retain their individuality? If that was true, the hatred and resent felt for the reapes by all would still remain. Since that is no longer the case, indiviuality has not been retained. Javik of all people should be desperate to kill more reapers, yet he's at peace in Synthesis?

The ending scenes suggest they retain their individuality. You may dispute the ending, obviously.

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Synthesis altered everyone's minds as well as bodies. Their minds have been altered to be at peace with and accept the reapers. The Mass Effect universe has a term for such a thing: Indoctrination.

Again you jump at extremes. I do believe their minds were probably influenced by the change that happened, but the ending implies it is benign. It could have simply made them capable to overcome their emotions easier and grant a better understanding of the universe. It didn't have to be a top-down change "now be at peace or else", but a change coming from the fact that their scope broadened, a kind of epiphany the people have when they learn there is much more to existence than they thought. Of course, we cannot know for sure either way, but a negative reading of that ending requires speculation.

[Wayning_Star]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Mass genetic alteration is ethically wrong on many levels.

I personally blame mother nature for that one.. She plainly doesn't care.. sad really.

[Wayning_Star]

Karlone123 wrote...

I never spare the Reapers, they are mass-murdering machines who have killed and harvested countless beings for an unkown amount of time. Too many lives lost to let them live, so they get destroyed.

kill the killers for killing the killed.. makes sense..I guess.

[GethPrimeMKII]

[quote]Mouton_Alpha wrote...

[quote]GethPrimeMKII wrote...

[quote]Mouton_Alpha wrote...

[snip]
[/quote]

Mouton, you can't have it both ways. Either they retain individuality or their minds were altered. You cannot play god with the minds of trillions of people without their consent and call it benign.