183 réponses à ce sujet

[HiddenInWar]

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

[shodiswe]

As far as I know it's just a delusion of the IT cult. Not an actual ending.

Unless one of them managed to mak a mod for it.

Modifié par shodiswe, 23 janvier 2013 - 09:55 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

[RuthlessGravity]

I think refuse would be a form of indoctrination. You allowed the Reapers to continue their conflict and eventually they win. Of course, Liara would be the hero as she saved all the data for the next generation to eventually defeat them.

[HiddenInWar]

shodiswe wrote...

As far as I know it's just a delusion of the IT cult. Not an actual ending.

Unless one of them managed to mak a mod for it.

Anybody could say destroyers or controllers etc. can be cults. 

[HiddenInWar]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

No, the indoc theory being shepard is indoctrinated, starting with harbingers laser blast. 

[Ithurael]

HiddenInWar wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

No, the indoc theory being shepard is indoctrinated, starting with harbingers laser blast. 

IT is more a way of viewing the ending - not an actual option. in classic IT 3 out of the 4 choices == indoctrination and the entire ending is a dream.

The Literal view has 4 endings, the IT View has - essentially - two (Indoctrinated/Not Indoctrinated)

It is just a way some interpret the ending. They have the same content as the literal view and nothing more.

[adam32867]

yeah, but in the form of an interpretation. it was BWs original intent for the ending though changes to the game were made. so people who believe IT come by it honestly, also BW has refuses to comment either way on if IT is true or not. so its really up to the person playing the game.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

HiddenInWar wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

No, the indoc theory being shepard is indoctrinated, starting with harbingers laser blast. 

Oh, **** me. Yeah, I'm outta here.

[Senenzon]

shodiswe wrote...

As far as I know it's just a delusion of the IT cult. Not an actual ending.

Unless one of them managed to mak a mod for it.

U mad bro? And as far as i know from your post, is that you dont know **** about IT. 

[Bill Casey]

Ithurael wrote...

The Literal view has 4 endings, the IT View has - essentially - two (Indoctrinated/Not Indoctrinated)

It is just a way some interpret the ending. They have the same content as the literal view and nothing more.

"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

- Casey Hudson

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:06 .

[MaximizedAction]

HiddenInWar wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

No, the indoc theory being shepard is indoctrinated, starting with harbingers laser blast. 

Small correction: according to the IT, Shepard isn't fully indoctrinated until the ending choice. It's only an ongoing attempt.

[HiddenInWar]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

No, the indoc theory being shepard is indoctrinated, starting with harbingers laser blast. 

Small correction: according to the IT, Shepard isn't fully indoctrinated until the ending choice. It's only an ongoing attempt.

Ah yes, now I remember. I should watch the original documentary, but I did watch Angry Joes episode on it.

[adam32867]

Bill Casey wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

The Literal view has 4 endings, the IT View has - essentially - two (Indoctrinated/Not Indoctrinated)

It is just a way some interpret the ending. They have the same content as the literal view and nothing more.

"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

- Casey Hudson

hudson uses roman numerals 

[MattFini]

BioWare wanted speculation around their ending.

The IT theory is certainly an interesting take on the ending.

I never much believed it myself although there are certain aspects of the EC and Leviathan that seem to have been included specifically to add fuel to the IT fire.

I like that ... and it does make a certain kind of sense.

The problem being, if you interpret the endings as IT, you've got an even worse ending to the trilogy since it literally leaves everything up in the air.

[Bill Casey]

adam32867 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

The Literal view has 4 endings, the IT View has - essentially - two (Indoctrinated/Not Indoctrinated)

It is just a way some interpret the ending. They have the same content as the literal view and nothing more.

"It's
not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can
say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

- Casey Hudson

hudson uses roman numerals 

I'm pretty sure the letters are rankings, by the way...
People can't agree on what the best ending is or even how many endings there are...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:15 .

[shodiswe]

HiddenInWar wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

As far as I know it's just a delusion of the IT cult. Not an actual ending.

Unless one of them managed to mak a mod for it.

Anybody could say destroyers or controllers etc. can be cults. 

Unfortunately after the EC people got even crazier about their opinions on which ending i the best so they are certainly getting there. Destroyers are probably the most fargone. Partuialy because they probably feel that they are more right by being in a slight majority on polls.

I wouldn't mind Destroy if it didn't kill of the geth, if as they say peopel tried to rebuild the geth all their development woudl be lost, it would just be a new synthetic lifeform even if you give them the same bodies. More like th VI geth than Legions Geth... Probably not even that since itwould lack the memories and history of the geth and woudl have to go through the whole thing again.
Maybe you can get it right this time.. but sending the message that synthetics were sacrifised doesn't help in creating a  peaceful future.
I still prefer it over refuse that pretty much resets the whole universe and makes sequels nearly pointless.

But I really like the idea of a synthetic race that's slightly different. Therefor Destroy unfortunately makes the ME universe less interesting.

I prefer to see control where Shepard an the reapers are barely noticable and mostly watch for intergalactic invasions and major threats that the galactic powers can't handle on their own and where they ask for help... HELP!! We're dying! That way there can be new Mass effect adventures.
I also don't think Commander Shepard is nessesary for a Mass effect adventure. At the end of ME1 and when ME2 was about to start I really didn't like the idea of Shepard dying or gettign replaced but now im fine with it.

[warblewobble]

RuthlessGravity wrote...

I think refuse would be a form of indoctrination. You allowed the Reapers to continue their conflict and eventually they win. Of course, Liara would be the hero as she saved all the data for the next generation to eventually defeat them.

Disclaimer: Not an IT theorist myself, but...

I actually think the refuse ending might fit better with IT than people give it credit for. You can imagine that Shepard does resist indoctrination (complete with star kid using the reaper voice to show his true identity) but that he/she still ultimately dies from injuries and Liara's message is less a condemnation of the player's choice than a statement of the reality that the cycle simply couldn't be broken and there was no chance to properly use the crucible- whatever it did.

[HiddenInWar]

MattFini wrote...

BioWare wanted speculation around their ending.

The IT theory is certainly an interesting take on the ending.

I never much believed it myself although there are certain aspects of the EC and Leviathan that seem to have been included specifically to add fuel to the IT fire.

I like that ... and it does make a certain kind of sense.

The problem being, if you interpret the endings as IT, you've got an even worse ending to the trilogy since it literally leaves everything up in the air.

Some like endings that leave it up to the imagination.

I don't myself, and even though I'm on the fence about it, but I like IT because it gives me a chance to talk about one of the best theories I've seen in any medium. 

[EpicBoot2daFace]

HiddenInWar wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

No, the indoc theory being shepard is indoctrinated, starting with harbingers laser blast. 

Small correction: according to the IT, Shepard isn't fully indoctrinated until the ending choice. It's only an ongoing attempt.

Ah yes, now I remember. I should watch the original documentary, but I did watch Angry Joes episode on it.

Angry Joe is awesome. Okay, now I'm out.

[HiddenInWar]

shodiswe wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

As far as I know it's just a delusion of the IT cult. Not an actual ending.

Unless one of them managed to mak a mod for it.

Anybody could say destroyers or controllers etc. can be cults. 

Unfortunately after the EC people got even crazier about their opinions on which ending i the best so they are certainly getting there. Destroyers are probably the most fargone. Partuialy because they probably feel that they are more right by being in a slight majority on polls.

I wouldn't mind Destroy if it didn't kill of the geth, if as they say peopel tried to rebuild the geth all their development woudl be lost, it would just be a new synthetic lifeform even if you give them the same bodies. More like th VI geth than Legions Geth... Probably not even that since itwould lack the memories and history of the geth and woudl have to go through the whole thing again.
Maybe you can get it right this time.. but sending the message that synthetics were sacrifised doesn't help in creating a  peaceful future.
I still prefer it over refuse that pretty much resets the whole universe and makes sequels nearly pointless.

But I really like the idea of a synthetic race that's slightly different. Therefor Destroy unfortunately makes the ME universe less interesting.

I prefer to see control where Shepard an the reapers are barely noticable and mostly watch for intergalactic invasions and major threats that the galactic powers can't handle on their own and where they ask for help... HELP!! We're dying! That way there can be new Mass effect adventures.
I also don't think Commander Shepard is nessesary for a Mass effect adventure. At the end of ME1 and when ME2 was about to start I really didn't like the idea of Shepard dying or gettign replaced but now im fine with it.

I like control because it's sort of a "Shepard died but didn't really die" sort of thing. I agree, consistent intervention would be a burden to the galaxy, only in times of need would (s)he be involved.

[HiddenInWar]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Like... an actual choice to be indoctrinated?

No, the indoc theory being shepard is indoctrinated, starting with harbingers laser blast. 

Small correction: according to the IT, Shepard isn't fully indoctrinated until the ending choice. It's only an ongoing attempt.

Ah yes, now I remember. I should watch the original documentary, but I did watch Angry Joes episode on it.

Angry Joe is awesome. Okay, now I'm out.

True dat.

[MattFini]

HiddenInWar wrote...

MattFini wrote...

BioWare wanted speculation around their ending.

The IT theory is certainly an interesting take on the ending.

I never much believed it myself although there are certain aspects of the EC and Leviathan that seem to have been included specifically to add fuel to the IT fire.

I like that ... and it does make a certain kind of sense.

The problem being, if you interpret the endings as IT, you've got an even worse ending to the trilogy since it literally leaves everything up in the air.

Some like endings that leave it up to the imagination.

I don't myself, and even though I'm on the fence about it, but I like IT because it gives me a chance to talk about one of the best theories I've seen in any medium. 

Yeah and I'm glad that IT works for some people as a "brilliant" conclusion to the series. I'm not being sarcastic, either. Hell, with all the little things they added in the EC and Leviathan I almost thought about accepting IT myself.

And yeah, I think IT is a cool theory. I feel like that's why BW doesn't want to deny it and instead, added lots of little hints along the way in the DLC. 

I don't mind ambiguous endings for some stories. One of my favorite endings of all time is in John Carpenter's The Thing and it doesn't get any more ambiguous than that.

I just don't think 'vague' fits the ending of Mass Effect very well. I want to see what happened to my team and the galaxy after the war. I don't even really mind the EC ending of Destroy save for the fact that it doesn't go far enough. I think there's plenty of room for an epilogue mission there (for any ending choice) but I guess that's a topic for another thread.

[Untold]

HiddenInWar wrote...

We have the destroyers, controllers, synthesizers, and refusers. Does indoc work into this too, as an ending like the original four?

Sure it does. Nothing is really solid clear in the ending. Some people have argued that Leviathan cemented the catalyst while I felt it ended up supporting it and IT at the same time. By that I mean the Leviathan added support for the creation of the catalyst but their method of doing so is what supports IT, by inducing a dreamlike state that resembles reality.

Honestly, anything works and I guess that's the point. Still not a huge fan of the ending but what can you do? You roll with what you have. And in this case it was a kind of "make your own ending" sort of deal.

Modifié par Untold, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:35 .

[shodiswe]

Senenzon wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

As far as I know it's just a delusion of the IT cult. Not an actual ending.

Unless one of them managed to mak a mod for it.

U mad bro? And as far as i know from your post, is that you dont know **** about IT. 

I know that it´s a bunch of people looking for crazy symbolism to confirm a set of "prefered" convictions. If you look for a face on a sheet of paper with a lot ofrandom dots then you will find it. If you want to see things that are off to prove that something is a dream then it´s easy to find gfx glitches or reused textures that don´t mesh well and use that to convince yourself that it just a dream, or what ever you´re looking for.

As for the cult part, the way the IT people behave says it all.

To sum it up, The endings hurts so they look for easier to accept answers that hurt less. I don't feel like bringing it up in detail again. Let's just say I think it belongs in the garbage can like most religious delusions and cults and crap on this planet thats populated by a very disturbed and easily manipulated people, who actualy invites delusions because they might hurt less than reality. Sheep for the slaughter.

I really didn't like the original ending and the EC only made it slightly better but I don´t view the IT as a solution to anything.
That said, the Marauder shield comic is well made and entertaining. It's actualy good art in it self.

EDIT:
What i´m saying is I don´t like looking for obscure symbolism, sugestion or otherwise and call it truth. While wild speculations can be entertaining. As long as people don´t read too seriously into it and recognize it for what it is.

Modifié par shodiswe, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:44 .