183 réponses à ce sujet

[dorktainian]

BetrayerOfNihil wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...
Is that possible?

You just let your mind and liberty be ripped away from you by the most disgusting and horrifying monsters the Universe has ever known, leaving the next Cycle to get screwed. You bet that'd be a million times worse than deciding to give it your all to fight them when you have other solutions right in front of you.

masster blaster wrote...
Clearly Betray you don't know nothing about IT, so either learn it, or just don't even talk about IT because all of your post does not even make any sense.

I don't need to learn anymore **** about Indoctrination Theory. The most virtuous/ruinous man/woman in Galactic history doesn't fall to Indoctrination.

let the hate flow through you.

[KevShep]

adam32867 wrote...

yeah, but in the form of an interpretation. it was BWs original intent for the ending though changes to the game were made. so people who believe IT come by it honestly, also BW has refuses to comment either way on if IT is true or not. so its really up to the person playing the game.

This^

There were SSSOOO much evidence in-game that supports the IT that it is not even funny. Example: In the control and synthesis ending has shepards eyes turn blue like the Illusive mans eyes(even in synthesis mind you), the only one that didnt was destroy and it was the one the catalyst did NOT want you to make.

[BetrayerOfNihil]

Tch, whatever you say. I'm just pitching in with my opinion on the idea of Shepard becoming Indoctrinated, I don't wanna argue over this bull****, it'll never end.

[GethPrimeMKII]

BetrayerOfNihil wrote...

Tch, whatever you say. I'm just pitching in with my opinion on the idea of Shepard becoming Indoctrinated, I don't wanna argue over this bull****, it'll never end.

Im sensing alot of negativity here 

[Siran]

Didn't we get a special little group for those IT folks?

[DirtyPhoenix]

masster blaster wrote...

I hardly call that a plot twist. Why because...

1. Why the hell is the leader of the Reapers living on the Citadel?

2. How the hell is it know it's the Catalyst?

3. It claims's it's the catalyst?

4. It takes the form a the child that died on Earth. Why the hell would the catalyst take the form of the child, and how the hell does it know about the child?

5. Why doesn't it have FULL control over the Citadel?

6. Why didn't the Leviathans tell us where the **** was the brat? I am sure they would have knowne because they have watched the galaxy for waht ever since they cycle started, and not a single Leviathan knew about the Catalyst living on the Citadel.

I can go on but you get the point.

All I can say is that

In literal ending the Star brat is full of bs, and people believe his bs.
( except the ones that hate the brat, and either pick refuse or Destroy to give it the middle finger ending)


IT: Brat is full of bs, trying to trick the player into foing something that they shouldn't be doing, and either play the brat's mind game, or well die, or Indoctrinated. ( I mean Shepard, not the player)

You conveniently missed my main point. In Arrival it changes between Harby and CG depending on whether you did it after the SM. But in Leviathan it always remains the "Intelligence" because you cannot play it after you've learned of the catalyst. Hence naming it Catalyst when we still thing catalyst is a missing component (we dont even know the citadel is catalyst by that point) would grandly spoil it.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Siran wrote...

Didn't we get a special little group for those IT folks?

Who let the dogs,...er I mean ITers, out!!!

[HiddenInWar]

Siran, the BSN group is in my sig while the forum is in GethPrimeMKII's.

[KevShep]

Siran wrote...

Didn't we get a special little group for those IT folks?

No, if you have noticed that the enitre fourm is ether anti-ender or ITers.

There needs to be a "special little group" for those pro-ender folks.

[ZajoE38]

OP, it's just wishful thinking of the IT cultists. It's not real ending. Learn to live with it, or uninstall the game.

[GethPrimeMKII]

ZajoE38 wrote...

OP, it's just wishful thinking of the IT cultists. It's not real ending. Learn to live with it, or uninstall the game.

I;m willing to bet you don't know the first thing about the theory, but your ignorance wont stop you from forming an opinion.

[DirtyPhoenix]

ZajoE38 wrote...

OP, it's just wishful thinking of the IT cultists. It's not real ending. Learn to live with it, or uninstall the game.

Or get MEHEM, if you swing that way. I just finished watching, it's not bad actually.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

It can be I like IT i don't pay much attention sometimes to video games so the ending didn't really affect me until i come to the forums then my eyes saw a lot of crap (in the game) I head canon IT for my FemShep

Reading this thread helped me see things that happened in Leviathan I didn't see time to play ME3 again !

[ZajoE38]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

OP, it's just wishful thinking of the IT cultists. It's not real ending. Learn to live with it, or uninstall the game.

I;m willing to bet you don't know the first thing about the theory, but your ignorance wont stop you from forming an opinion.

I studied indoctrination theory in to the LAST DETAIL my friend. I was it's one of the biggest fans. Then I've seen through it.. someting didn't add up. I do know what I am takling about. IT is nothing more than mix of selective memory, irrelevant leads, dogma, superstition, mass hysteria and backfire effect. Combine these things and people are willing to believe everything.. even the end of the world that of course was a delusion and it didn't happed

[KyreneZA]

warblewobble wrote...

RuthlessGravity wrote...

I think refuse would be a form of indoctrination. You allowed the Reapers to continue their conflict and eventually they win. Of course, Liara would be the hero as she saved all the data for the next generation to eventually defeat them.

Disclaimer: Not an IT theorist myself, but...

I actually think the refuse ending might fit better with IT than people give it credit for. You can imagine that Shepard does resist indoctrination (complete with star kid using the reaper voice to show his true identity) but that he/she still ultimately dies from injuries and Liara's message is less a condemnation of the player's choice than a statement of the reality that the cycle simply couldn't be broken and there was no chance to properly use the crucible- whatever it did.

Just like we don't know if Shepard carries on living after the "Breath Scene" in the high EMS Destroy ending. All we know is that in all endings the Stargazer says the Reapers were defeated. It is never clear (except in Refuse) if it was in Shepard's cycle or later.

The thing is, most people were so used to Shepard being the infallible hero by the start of ME3, they could not (and seem to still not be able to) come to terms with the fact that s/he (and even the whole galaxy) might die at the end of the game. Even now there are still whole threads and a fan-made mod to force a "happy ending" on the ending we did get.

Indoctrination can be its own form of ending, because the only thing it leaves open is the ultimate fate of Shepard's cycle. And that is exactly where head-canon is supposed to fill the gap. We don't need another ending DLC to do it for us. And to clamour that such an open ending is not and ending or stupid is just showing that you lack a bit of imagination to head-canon it.

The ME series has always been about the choices and canon each player creates for each Shepard play-through. That has not changed in ME3, even if a large amount of players seem to have missed that.

[HiddenInWar]

Is Refuse and IT even in the same league? IT is more well thought out than that "game over" ollie-outie would ever be, at least to me.

[GethPrimeMKII]

HiddenInWar wrote...

Is Refuse and IT even in the same league? IT is more well thought out than that "game over" ollie-outie would ever be, at least to me.

Slow and patient indoctrination works alot like inception. A victim is being slowly conditioned to accept an idea, planted in their mind by the reapers, as his own. In the Inception movie the whole point of planting an idea in a person's mind is for them to act on that idea in reality. The reapers want Shepard to act, and a Shepard who refuses to act is useless to them.

[GethPrimeMKII]

ZajoE38 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

OP, it's just wishful thinking of the IT cultists. It's not real ending. Learn to live with it, or uninstall the game.

I;m willing to bet you don't know the first thing about the theory, but your ignorance wont stop you from forming an opinion.

I studied indoctrination theory in to the LAST DETAIL my friend. I was it's one of the biggest fans. Then I've seen through it.. someting didn't add up. I do know what I am takling about. IT is nothing more than mix of selective memory, irrelevant leads, dogma, superstition, mass hysteria and backfire effect. Combine these things and people are willing to believe everything.. even the end of the world that of course was a delusion and it didn't happed

Really? You studied it to the last detail and thats what you came up with? Do it again. And also, do you even know the meaning of half the words you're using? I'm pretty confident that you don't. Why is it we can't disagree and not resort to calling people cultists?

[KingZayd]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

Is Refuse and IT even in the same league? IT is more well thought out than that "game over" ollie-outie would ever be, at least to me.

Slow and patient indoctrination works alot like inception. A victim is being slowly conditioned to accept an idea, planted in their mind by the reapers, as his own. In the Inception movie the whole point of planting an idea in a person's mind is for them to act on that idea in reality. The reapers want Shepard to act, and a Shepard who refuses to act is useless to them.

They  may want him to act, but they don't NEED him to act. All they NEED is for him to stop trying to destroy them.

[warblewobble]

KingZayd wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

Is Refuse and IT even in the same league? IT is more well thought out than that "game over" ollie-outie would ever be, at least to me.

Slow and patient indoctrination works alot like inception. A victim is being slowly conditioned to accept an idea, planted in their mind by the reapers, as his own. In the Inception movie the whole point of planting an idea in a person's mind is for them to act on that idea in reality. The reapers want Shepard to act, and a Shepard who refuses to act is useless to them.

They  may want him to act, but they don't NEED him to act. All they NEED is for him to stop trying to destroy them.

 
That's pretty interesting. Refuse would still technically be a failure then? I wouldn't agree (if I were floating my own version of IT) but I like the originality of your logic.

[BleedingUranium]

KingZayd wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

Is Refuse and IT even in the same league? IT is more well thought out than that "game over" ollie-outie would ever be, at least to me.

Slow and patient indoctrination works alot like inception. A victim is being slowly conditioned to accept an idea, planted in their mind by the reapers, as his own. In the Inception movie the whole point of planting an idea in a person's mind is for them to act on that idea in reality. The reapers want Shepard to act, and a Shepard who refuses to act is useless to them.

They  may want him to act, but they don't NEED him to act. All they NEED is for him to stop trying to destroy them.

True. Refuse would be them winning because Shepard stopped trying to kill them, but he wouldn't be indoctrinated, because by definition an indoctrinated person is furthering the Reapers goals and/or serving them.

The best Refuse could get would be Shepard waking up with outside help, likely from someone like the Rachni Queen, per her ME2 message.

[GethPrimeMKII]

warblewobble wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

Is Refuse and IT even in the same league? IT is more well thought out than that "game over" ollie-outie would ever be, at least to me.

Slow and patient indoctrination works alot like inception. A victim is being slowly conditioned to accept an idea, planted in their mind by the reapers, as his own. In the Inception movie the whole point of planting an idea in a person's mind is for them to act on that idea in reality. The reapers want Shepard to act, and a Shepard who refuses to act is useless to them.

They  may want him to act, but they don't NEED him to act. All they NEED is for him to stop trying to destroy them.

 
That's pretty interesting. Refuse would still technically be a failure then? I wouldn't agree (if I were floating my own version of IT) but I like the originality of your logic.

Its a failure because, literal or not, Shepard walks in with the resolve to destroy the reapers. Shepard speaks to the catalyst and suddenly loses the resolve to destroy the reapers. Shepard can make all the epic speeches he wants. It doesn't change the fact that he didnt act and left his comrades to fend fo themselves.

[warblewobble]

Per what Uranium wrote, I have trouble seeing refuse as succumbing to indoctrination. I can see Zayd's point about it maybe still leading to Shepard playing into the reapers' hands (in terms of what's going on in reality) but I have trouble seeing that as bowing to their influence- at least in Shepard's own mind.

However, Zayd's intepretation would be a truly insidious form of indoctrination indeed. Shepard summons all his/her willpower to fight off the reapers w/o realizing that he/she is doing so precisely within the expected parameters that they've constructed. Very sinister, I have to admit.

[BleedingUranium]

warblewobble wrote...

Per what Uranium wrote, I have trouble seeing refuse as succumbing to indoctrination. I can see Zayd's point about it maybe still leading to Shepard playing into the reapers' hands (in terms of what's going on in reality) but I have trouble seeing that as bowing to their influence- at least in Shepard's own mind.

However, Zayd's intepretation would be a truly insidious form of indoctrination indeed. Shepard summons all his/her willpower to fight off the reapers w/o realizing that he/she is doing so precisely within the expected parameters that they've constructed. Very sinister, I have to admit.

The latter would be a great trap, yes, but not indoctrination because Shepard's goal is still to kill them. So yes, it's possible to interpret Destroy as a trap, but not indoctrination.

[dorktainian]

warblewobble wrote...

However, Zayd's intepretation would be a truly insidious form of indoctrination indeed. Shepard summons all his/her willpower to fight off the reapers w/o realizing that he/she is doing so precisely within the expected parameters that they've constructed. Very sinister, I have to admit.

thats what people fail to see.  everything that happens does so by reaper design.  they are the masters of control.  they have controlled cycles for millions of years by no fluke.    

also at the beginning of the game shepard wants to destroy the reapers.  he only has a mandate for destroying them.    

anything else is betrayal of his core objective.

Modifié par dorktainian, 24 janvier 2013 - 08:31 .