268 réponses à ce sujet

[Todd23]

In Dragon Age, all of your protagonists had to be completely remorseless and not care if anyone dies. Except for Hawke when it came to his immediate family. As a matter of fact, no one seemed to care about death save for Talisand Leliana. I was wondering if this time we can at least care if we kill someone. Rather than hear one of our companions say something about "keeping score".

[XX-Pyro]

Roleplay that your character cares? I mean he/she can hardly be breaking down about every thug he/she kills...

[Warden661]

Alistair gets pretty upset when Duncan dies. Merrill gets upset when Keeper Merithari or any other Dalish in her clan dies. Oghren is a bit upset if Branka is killed. I'm not too sure but I think Wynne is no fan of death.

Are you just saying that no one seems to be bothered by having to take a life?

[Knight of Dane]

Not every time, but sure I would like some god damn reactions too!

It always bugged me that you could give Isabela to the Qunari without having ANY follow up dialogue with at least one of your companions, I mean, Merrill and Varric were pretty good friends with her.

Or if you face Merrill or Fenris in the end. Isabela almost cares for Merrill like a little sister and yet she has no issue being a part of the team who kills her, Fenris can also be her lover if Hawke didn't romance any of them.

It just doesn't feel like anything really happens when no one reacts, imo the strongest scene involving a leaving companion is the one where Aveline lay down her sword and leaves Hawke to fight the templars without going into combat with him/her.

[nightscrawl]

BoBear wrote...

Alistair gets pretty upset when Duncan dies. Merrill gets upset when Keeper Merithari or any other Dalish in her clan dies. Oghren is a bit upset if Branka is killed. I'm not too sure but I think Wynne is no fan of death.

Are you just saying that no one seems to be bothered by having to take a life?

It seems to me that the OP is referencing death in general, as our PC can really rack up the body count, and whether they are darkspawn, demons, bandits, or blood mages, no one really expresses that much regret over being a murderer.

[Sir George Parr]

Its a stark comment on the disposable nature of Human, dwarvan and elven life around Kirkwall that no one cared about all those gang members who died over the course of DA2.

[Plaintiff]

nightscrawl wrote...

BoBear wrote...

Alistair gets pretty upset when Duncan dies. Merrill gets upset when Keeper Merithari or any other Dalish in her clan dies. Oghren is a bit upset if Branka is killed. I'm not too sure but I think Wynne is no fan of death.

Are you just saying that no one seems to be bothered by having to take a life?

It seems to me that the OP is referencing death in general, as our PC can really rack up the body count, and whether they are darkspawn, demons, bandits, or blood mages, no one really expresses that much regret over being a murderer.

Well the PC and the party would hardly be able to do what the story requires of them if they stopped to blubber over everyone they killed. If that were the case, I would advise a career change.

[Sith Grey Warden]

Given the sheer body count that Hawke racks up in DA2, it does seem a little disturbing that there's never a breakdown from the sheer numbers of it all. Of course, because of the time skips, it's a very easy cop out to say it did happen, just off-screen. Or because of Varric's exaggerations, each mass of murderous thugs was actually only a couple of bandits.

[Plaintiff]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

Given the sheer body count that Hawke racks up in DA2, it does seem a little disturbing that there's never a breakdown from the sheer numbers of it all. Of course, because of the time skips, it's a very easy cop out to say it did happen, just off-screen. Or because of Varric's exaggerations, each mass of murderous thugs was actually only a couple of bandits.

Well, a non-mage Hawke is an adult, accomplished warrior who just experienced Ostagar. If he had any sort of breakdown, it was probably prior to the events of the game.

[H. Birdman]

This is a video game where you fight monsters. It's really not the place for a meditation on mortality. If you want a couple lines of dialogue, fine, whatever. But the reality is, the character is heading out in five minutes to do some more murdering, and you're going to enjoy it. Otherwise you wouldn't have bought the game.

[nightscrawl]

Plaintiff wrote...

Well the PC and the party would hardly be able to do what the story requires of them if they stopped to blubber over everyone they killed. If that were the case, I would advise a career change.

It doesn't have to be that extreme though.

Consider this exchange between Anders and Varric...

Varric: Oh, cheer up, Blondie. You're making me cry just looking at you.
Anders: Don't.
Varric: You made a mistake. It happens.
Anders: I almost killed a girl.
Varric: You've killed two-hundred and fifty-four by my last count. Plus about five hundred men, a few dozen giant spiders, and at least two demons.
Anders: It's not the same.
Varric: Why? Because this one you feel bad about? Maybe that's the problem.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to express similar regret for the PC, even if you think the death is necessary. In fact, it has always irked me that I could never express regret over killing Anders at the end of DA2, you just knife him and move on.

Being able to express your character's emotions, whatever they may be, seems to be the very essence of roleplay options.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 24 janvier 2013 - 01:39 .

[Wulfram]

DA2 did seem to actively promote a blazé attitude towards death. Maybe it was mostly Varric doing his lampshading thing, but I still wasn't keen on it.

[Plaintiff]

nightscrawl wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well the PC and the party would hardly be able to do what the story requires of them if they stopped to blubber over everyone they killed. If that were the case, I would advise a career change.

It doesn't have to be that extreme though.

Consider this exchange between Anders and Varric...

Varric: Oh, cheer up, Blondie. You're making me cry just looking at you.
Anders: Don't.
Varric: You made a mistake. It happens.
Anders: I almost killed a girl.
Varric: You've killed two-hundred and fifty-four by my last count. Plus about five hundred men, a few dozen giant spiders, and at least two demons.
Anders: It's not the same.
Varric: Why? Because this one you feel bad about? Maybe that's the problem.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to express similar regret for the PC, even if you think the death is necessary. In fact, it has always irked me that I could never express regret over killing Anders at the end of DA2, you just knife him and move on.

Being able to express your character's emotions, whatever they may be, seems to be the very essence of roleplay options.

Well in that exchange, the difference is clear. Anders almost killed a girl when he did not mean to.

The ony way this could happen is if Bioware pre-scripted certain events to allow us to roleplay remorse. But I think it would just be more jarring to have the player character be able to express those feelings for only a few important characters and not the literally hundreds of lackeys they mowed down.

[74 Wrex]

H. Birdman wrote...

This is a video game where you fight monsters. It's really not the place for a meditation on mortality. If you want a couple lines of dialogue, fine, whatever. But the reality is, the character is heading out in five minutes to do some more murdering, and you're going to enjoy it. Otherwise you wouldn't have bought the game.

Um this video game is RPG where your actions and choices are suppose to affect the game including companions 

[H. Birdman]

74 Wrex wrote...

H. Birdman wrote...

This is a video game where you fight monsters. It's really not the place for a meditation on mortality. If you want a couple lines of dialogue, fine, whatever. But the reality is, the character is heading out in five minutes to do some more murdering, and you're going to enjoy it. Otherwise you wouldn't have bought the game.

Um this video game is RPG where your actions and choices are suppose to affect the game including companions 

Right, but tons of choices are off limits because of the basic nature of the genre.  Not killing things is off limits.   You could put in an option to have your character be upset about that inevitable reality, but why?  Of all the themes you could pick to invest development time in, why pick the one theme that absolutely cannot be squared with the character's conduct.  Why emphasize the weakness of the genre?

[starmine76]

There were some really strong moments in ME3 where Shepard would show signs of emotional wear and tear (it was up to the player if Shepard verbally expressed it, of course).

I think that goes a long way to remind the player that, despite killing hordes of people, they have thoughts and emotions pertaining to the actions they take.

I definitely think that if a major character dies, the player should be allowed to express their sorrow in a manner and capacity they see fit. There were times in ME and DA where something really tragic would happen and my character would barely bat an eyelash, with no option to show a moment of real, genuine mourning.

Movies have learned this lesson well. The most tragic death scenes in most movies aren't usually the deaths themselves, rather its the scenes of showing people react to those deaths that pulls the heartstrings.

Would it have been all that sad at the end of Godfather 3 if  *20 YEAR OLD SPOILER* they just showed Sofia Coppola get shot? No, the scene hits your gut because of the way Micheal Corleone loses his **** and starts screaming hysterically about it. That's what sells the scene to the viewer.

EDIT: Here's a video game example from Gears of War 2 (I know, bear woth me) that shows the importance of seeing a character react to a death. It's not so much the knowledge that Maria has suffered this horrible fate that makes it sad. It's the anguish in Doms face has he screams at his wife, the way a frantically and desperately tries to cope with this situation, and the empathetic (yet carrying a note of cold finality) way that Marcus puts his hand on his friends shoulder and said "It's okay".


GOW2 may have been a hypermasculine, story-light shootemup, but in this moment, the characters felt human.

Modifié par starmine76, 24 janvier 2013 - 05:14 .

[Hi my name is Ryan]

I agree OP. In DA3 Bioware should make it so that every time your party slaughters a group of mooks there's an hour long unskippable cutscene where the PC hams it up about what a monster they've become. This cutscene will of course be all auto dialogue so as to keep the FLOW™ of the scene going.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

DA2 did seem to actively promote a blazé attitude towards death. Maybe it was mostly Varric doing his lampshading thing, but I still wasn't keen on it.

I didn't find it different from DA:O in that regard. 

[Hey]

If they write it correct I will care, if not I probably wont. I'm not much for forcing these things

[Celene II]

In a game where you are going to kill probably 1000s of people and NPCs that you should care about are going to drop like flies i dont see any way for them to make you care about everyone.

Would get tedious

[starmine76]

Hi my name is Ryan wrote...

I agree OP. In DA3 Bioware should make it so that every time your party slaughters a group of mooks there's an hour long unskippable cutscene where the PC hams it up about what a monster they've become. This cutscene will of course be all auto dialogue so as to keep the FLOW™ of the scene going.

Couldn't disagree more.

Questioning morals? Relatable character? Hogwash. For any self respecting video game developer to aim for any emotional depth greater than that of $1 Get Well card is, obviously,  an exercise in futility.

Emotions suck. I want my Hero of Thedas to be an emotionless genero-soldier who can only speak battle related words like "swords" or "lets do this". 

If my hero's girlfriend gets eaten by a dragon midway through the game, do you know what I want him to do? Shrug his shoulders and the find another ****ing girlfriend. 

You're welcome, Bioware. You can start sending me the checks on Monday.

Modifié par starmine76, 24 janvier 2013 - 07:53 .

[Zobo]

An option is always welcome. Unavoidable pre-scripted facial expressions and autodialogue is unacceptable on the other hand. No nightmares with a child running away in the woods please.

[Althix]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Roleplay that your character cares? I mean he/she can hardly be breaking down about every thug he/she kills...

kill count would be nice.

[Allan Schumacher]

We are exploring ways to allow the player to better react in a variety of ways to big events.

Has the fallback of ultimately "You can only select these reactions at the times that we allow you to" with the benefit of "At least for these choices, you're given a bit more flexibility in how you react."

Not a perfect solution, and still being investigated, but it is something that I think is a good thing to investigate.