268 réponses à ce sujet

[Althix]

We’re all killers, Alistair. © Warden.

[Neoleviathan]

secretsandlies wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Roleplay that your character cares? I mean he/she can hardly be breaking down about every thug he/she kills...

kill count would be nice.

 Origins had a kill count, maybe 2 did as well. I can't recall. 

I think it would be cool as an experiance. I've been playing Heavy Rain & that seems pretty close.
But then here's the thing. I'd feel a bit weird if the player character was visibly upset or angered by the choices I had them make, by extention they'd be upset with me. That strikes me as a little creepy, maybe a new level to the roleplaying dynamic there. Maybe its becuase I just watched Vertigo with that scene where Judy is so furious over being forced to dress like Madeline for Scottie. I think it would be weird to be almost on the recieving end of a similar responce out of a character. 
I think music will be key for character scenes like this too, but Bioware has great tastes there.

Modifié par Neoleviathan, 24 janvier 2013 - 09:48 .

[Althix]

Origins is just better game. Even personal page for DAO on BSN is better than personal page for DA2.

Why should i care about thugs my pc killed? It is beyond me. I just do not uderstand that.

Companios is rather different story. Reaction of pc on death of one of his companions should depend on relationships he had with this particular companion.

Example summary execution of Anders. Let say Anders was LI for one of my Hawkes. And behavior and reaction of Hawke before, during and after execution exactly the same as if Anders a friend or rival. Anders dialogue is changing, pc dialogue is not.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

We are exploring ways to allow the player to better react in a variety of ways to big events.

Has the fallback of ultimately "You can only select these reactions at the times that we allow you to" with the benefit of "At least for these choices, you're given a bit more flexibility in how you react."

Not a perfect solution, and still being investigated, but it is something that I think is a good thing to investigate.

That sounds pretty cool. I hope it works.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Todd23 wrote...

In Dragon Age, all of your protagonists had to be completely remorseless and not care if anyone dies. Except for Hawke when it came to his immediate family. As a matter of fact, no one seemed to care about death save for Talisand Leliana. I was wondering if this time we can at least care if we kill someone. Rather than hear one of our companions say something about "keeping score".

Omg those "witty" one liners are so annoying, but Dragon Age's isn't as cringeworthy as Mass Effect's especially when it's just Darkspawn. Show some empathy Garrus, that guard guarding this place had a wife and child.

[Wulfram]

In Exile wrote...

I didn't find it different from DA:O in that regard. 

Well, I think it mostly ignored the issue rather than going "LOL we killed 100s of people" as DA2 did on occasion.

And it helped that for much of the game you were killing monsters, not people.  There were exceptions, which I often wasn't all that keen on.

Modifié par Wulfram, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:22 .

[Face of Evil]

Could we designate a button for the option to fall to your knees and scream NOOOOOOOO to the heavens? I would abuse the s**t out of that.

"Your love interest has been kidnapped!"
"NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

"We're surrounded by bandits!"
"NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

"I'm sorry, our shop is all out of health potions."
"NOOOOOOOOOO!"

"Would you like to throw some bread crumbs to the birds?"
"NOOOOOOOOOO!"

Modifié par Face of Evil, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:26 .

[Nattfare]

"There are no more side quests or enemies to kill to gain any more xp, you need to proceed with the main plot and save the world."

"NOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Face of Evil]

"You need multiplayer to get the best ending!"

"NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Nattfare]

"Your companion is unable to equip this very awesome weapon and this very awesome armour just because"

"NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Okay, better stop there.

[Chaia]

Along the lines of what Far Cry 3 did would be good, i.e. in the beginning the first time Jason (regular spoilt brat) killed somebody he had a little freak out moment, it just made him more human after that it doesn't really pop up again apart from him meantioning hes become desensitised to killing.

Something like that would be good, just a little meantion to make the protagonist a bit real, but not dragged out.

Trouble is, if DA3's protagonist is some sort of Chantry Seeker or whatever, chances are he/shes already been made desensitised to killing by the Chantry, so it would kinda be out of place, would have fitted Hawke better.

[Dutchess]

I agree. I think this was an important flaw in DA2. Of course no one feels guilty about killing darkspawn. Darkspawn are mindless monsters. But when you arrive in Kirkwall the switch from killing Darkspawn to killing a group of desperate refugees, people like yourself, is made without any comment. Then your mom doesn't even bat an eye at the suggestion that her two precious children become mercenaries.

In DAO I recall at least one conversation with Zevran about your characters stance on killing ("I don't enjoy the act of killing" or "Bloodshed!!!!! Muahah!"), but in DA2 not one word... And that while the family setting could have been used for this, like a conversation with Leandra about the things Hawke has done and has to do to make a living in Kirkwall. You can't talk with your LI about it, and none of your companions seem bothered by the long list of deads on their name either. Only Fenris shows some emotion about that once ("I've carved my way to freedom in blood"). Instead, jokes are being made about it:

Varric: Tell us about Starkhaven, Choir Boy. I'm sure we're all burning with curiosity about your far-away land.
Sebastian: "My far-away land?" It's inland Free Marches, not on the moon.
Varric: And here I was hoping...
Sebastian: It's a lot like here. But fewer dead people.
Varric: Well, you don't have Hawke.

Sure, funny at first glance, but there is something disturbing about it as well. I understand that you need to kill people in a game like this. I also understand that the PC and companions won't cry over every dead body they leave. That's not what I'm asking/expecting. Just the opportunity to make it clear what your character feels would be welcome, like the conversation with Zevran I mentioned. It seems to me that the opinion on killing is a significant part of roleplaying. DA2 didn't only remove the chance to choose that opinion consciously, it also simply assumed what Hawke's take on murder was based on the dominant personality. Apparently killing is just a pleasant pass-time for aggressive Hawke ("urge to kill...rising" at MotA party). I disagree with this assumption.

As a last remark, I also feel that the enormous waves of thugs you had to kill made DA2 pretty hypocritical when it later offered the option to kill a character in a cutscene. Wait, I have to choose whether I kill this guy or not? And this is important, because...? He is different from the hundreds and hundreds I've been forced to kill without a word beause...? Because he has a cutscene? Because the game tells me to care suddenly?

[Althix]

He is different. First of all why your pc should consider hundred of thugs as people when they are enemies? Second - he is your responsibility and companion, maybe friend or LI.

[Xewaka]

This is more a game design issue. Simply put, when the brunt of the game consist of murdering things, having the character break down over that is counterproductive. If this was a low bodycount game (such as stealth games or graphic adventures) it'd make more sense. But for a combat based game, it clashes frontally with the main gameplay element.

[Althix]

yes it is game design issue. But that's beside the point. OP have a question about how could pc kill scores of people and be fine with it and even banter about kill count.

Thing is that topic starter for some reason considers enemies as people. When they are not people, they are enemies.

[wright1978]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

We are exploring ways to allow the player to better react in a variety of ways to big events.

Has the fallback of ultimately "You can only select these reactions at the times that we allow you to" with the benefit of "At least for these choices, you're given a bit more flexibility in how you react."

Not a perfect solution, and still being investigated, but it is something that I think is a good thing to investigate.

That sounds pretty cool. I hope it works.

My first reaction to greater emotional reactivity to player choice, is that sounds pretty cool. In the back on my mind though is the same noises being made about Shep in ME3. I came away with the impression that Shep was visually more  emotional in ME3 but it didn't come with a sense that i had a say in that emotion.  Maybe that impression was just a symptom of the huge amounts of characterising auto-dialogue in ME3 which hugely damaged player characterisation in that game, who knows.

Basically greater possible player control over characterisation of the protaganist is great as long as the choices feel different and that it isn't like a tug of war where important player characterisation is sacrificed elsewhere.

[Althix]

no no no not ME3, i still remember Thessia aftermatch. please no.

[AlexanderCousland]

If my character fists shakes at the Heavens with a single tear dripping from his eye at any point, Im coming for everybody on this thread, Liam Neeson Taken (1) style, and I shall leave a photo of a crying protagonist attached to each body.

[Althix]

not if i get them first

[Dutchess]

Again, I want the ability to roleplay. Not being forced to care or not to care.

Does it bother you, having killed so many people?
- Yes.
- A little.
- No.

[Althix]

all my pcs were killing enemies. not people.

People have families, friends, children and parents. Killing people is a murder.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 24 janvier 2013 - 02:36 .

[legbamel]

Does no one remember the scorn heaped on BioWare for trying to do this with Leandra? It worked quite well for me but apparently a lot of people were infuriated by what they saw as forced emotion on Hawke's part.

What I'd like to see is the opportunity to make one of those morally grey choices that involves killing someone (innocent, a friend, a family member, dog, whoever) and then discuss it with your companions with your dialogue choices guiding their reaction. Kill a companion's friend and then tell him to get over it? That should lead to separate dialogue from a choice to sympathize or express remorse.

[CrazyRah]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

We are exploring ways to allow the player to better react in a variety of ways to big events.

Has the fallback of ultimately "You can only select these reactions at the times that we allow you to" with the benefit of "At least for these choices, you're given a bit more flexibility in how you react."

Not a perfect solution, and still being investigated, but it is something that I think is a good thing to investigate.

Once more you shed just enough information to keep me interested enough to stick around for a while longer. This do sound interesting and i'm happy that it's at least explored

[TheChris92]

Let's just not go the same route as ME3 with the boy on Earth.