332 réponses à ce sujet

[blueumi]

I would like it to have a healthy mix of dark and light moments throughout the story
I really hated how dark dragon age 2 was
dragon age origins is one of if not the best game bioware ever made I want more of that

if there is nothing but dark moments I start to get desensitised and no longer care which is exactly what happened in dragon age 2
by the end of the game I just didn't care any more

[imbs]

Darth Death wrote...

Assuming if "darkness" is done right in DA3, would you want it? 

Sure, same for lightness and whatever. I recently retried DA2 and some of the storylines are just so bad, regardless of lightness. Your mothers death for one, Anders terrorist attack for two and as for light story lines the one where you help aveline with her personal quest is so bad. Where they live in (unrealistic) harmony once Aveline becomes leader, how every single guard rallies around her when threatened by the old commander and no one reasonable ever questions anything regarding her husband guard, her fereldeness, her following around a shady mage..  etc etc etc. It was just badly thought out and irritatingly so.

When darkness is done right it is mixed with lightness and vice versa. Characters arent necessarily evil for the sake of being evil or good for the sake of being good. Maybe Aveline isnt the perfect commander. Maybe being of good character isnt enough and maybe the sleezy commander was better at some other more practical things. Maybe there are sleezy-commander (sorry i dont remember his name) supporters who got a cut of the shady dealings who rally behind him when he tries to get his own back (instead of nameless fanatics... that made utterly no sense). So many possibilities and yet there was nothing of any substance at all. Aveline is of better morale fibre, more competent than, inspires more loyalty than... etc etc etc. After all those hints in act 1 that she would end up stepping on someone's toes it never happened. So much wasted

Anyway this post was far longer than i originally intended.. i just played thru the Aveline part i guess it irritated me more than i thought.

[lokifire42]

I'm not necessarily for "dark" or "light" but I am all about every action having a consequence. Sometimes playing the hero means making sacrifices and if that makes something dark then I guess that's how I'm leaning.

I do agree that working hard to solve a problem should lead to more positive outcomes, but I don't think that has to happen in every situation.

I also like when the choices aren't so obviously light or dark. I'm having the most fun when I have to really think about how my choices will affect the setting and my companions opinions of me.

[Siegdrifa]

Hum, i didn't found DAO to be THAT dark, i remember DA2 being darker but what puted me off in DA2 was how uncontrolable it get at the end, and i just wanted the city to burn with all it's insanity, i was only caring for Hawke sister and friends.

By dark fantasy IMO i'm more intrested in "dark" from an artistic point of view, with dark vibes, but not necerairly sadist and gore story. There is a big difference for me between a tragic "dark" event and a sadistic event.

I love TW2 and the vibes it had in dark place, such as the mine with nearly no light and those creapy zombies and monsters, or the catacombs where you have to examine corps to find clues on a murder etc. I was kinda shocked by the witch getting each eye taken out with spoon at the end though.

What i really liked in DAO is how we had control over the event even when the situation seemed desperate, like with the child being controled by a demon and we have to enter the fade to save him. But we can also kill the child wich is very... well, dark.

Hum... now that i remember more about dragon age (i didn't play it since 2 years maybe), the begining was very dark... my first character was an elf woman in the city, getting abducted with his friend by some human lords, and the blood bath it caused... or the battle of Ostagar, the king being smashed by and ogre and the royal army masacred ...
Yeah, DAO was dark and violent, but it didn't bother me much, because it made sens; i realy liked the past of my elf character and how doubtfull she was against human, and the way i answered the king at Ostagare, that had a meaning to rp my character.
May be it's time to start another playthrough to refresh my memory.

[FodoSatoru]

Dark like "Song of Ice and Fire", with demonic possessions and taint infections added. Would be so depressingly glorious!

[Chashan]

Darth Death wrote...

Are you hoping for some unsettling, gut wrenching, ethically disturbing themes surrounding your DA3 experience? Or are some of you hoping for a hug with a nug approach? What do people think when they hear the word "dark fantasy"? And how much of that do you want to experience in DA3?  

Why not both?

Honestly, just replaying DA:O - why I put that off for so long I'll never know, although it may have to do with clunkier-than-clunky combat when greater numbers of enemies are involved toward the end - one thing I appreciated was that both elements were present: companions were quite central to off-setting the otherwise dreary quest Wardens are on, and I hope the Inquisitor's sidekicks get equally entertaining roles. Awakening continued that splendidly - much prefer the less uptight incarnation of Anders there compared to how that one turns out in DA2.

DA:I should not be "dark" for the sake of being dark, but be focused on telling a good story. And DA's trademark there, I argue, is that it ought to be more balanced.
And please, this time around, let us not have nearly every single character met along the way turned into frothing lunatics or monstrosities, shall we?

[Darth Death]

Chashan wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Are you hoping for some unsettling, gut wrenching, ethically disturbing themes surrounding your DA3 experience? Or are some of you hoping for a hug with a nug approach? What do people think when they hear the word "dark fantasy"? And how much of that do you want to experience in DA3?  

Why not both?

Honestly, just replaying DA:O - why I put that off for so long I'll never know, although it may have to do with clunkier-than-clunky combat when greater numbers of enemies are involved toward the end - one thing I appreciated was that both elements were present: companions were quite central to off-setting the otherwise dreary quest Wardens are on, and I hope the Inquisitor's sidekicks get equally entertaining roles. Awakening continued that splendidly - much prefer the less uptight incarnation of Anders there compared to how that one turns out in DA2.

DA:I should not be "dark" for the sake of being dark, but be focused on telling a good story. And DA's trademark there, I argue, is that it ought to be more balanced.
And please, this time around, let us not have nearly every single character met along the way turned into frothing lunatics or monstrosities, shall we?

Another jedi who seeks to restore balance to the force. Sorry, my inner sith can get the better of me at times.

I'm seeing this a lot & I agree somethings shouldn't be done for the sake of it. I'm only proposing the idea of "darkness" done right & not for the sake of it. Nevertheless, good post.   

Modifié par Darth Death, 02 février 2013 - 02:43 .

[Wompoo]

Heh my Sith is 100% light side, dark for the sake of being dark is like watching people shock Vete just because they can, and think that makes them Darth Badguy... they need not be: you are a raving psychopathic, a sadist or politician. Dark should be more vague, subtle or manipulative, there but just out of grasp, an uneasiness... not here I am big and grim. To much dark coupled with the usual dysfunctional companions would turn me off. Even in the heart of war with death and destruction all around, people still find reasons to smile and find joy. So for me, more of a chaotic mix of classic dark and high fantasy light.

[puppy maclove]

for me... I prefer darker and more mature themes, like TW2 or game of thrones as broad examples? (I do not mean the nudity etc, but rather the tone of them)

I loved DA:O but one of the many problems I had with Da:2 is that it felt like a child's game in comparison. From the story to the art style it just felt lightweight and aimed at a younger audience, IMO.

[FodoSatoru]

Wompoo wrote...

Heh my Sith is 100% light side, dark for the sake of being dark is like watching people shock Vete just because they can, and think that makes them Darth Badguy... they need not be: you are a raving psychopathic, a sadist or politician. Dark should be more vague, subtle or manipulative, there but just out of grasp, an uneasiness... not here I am big and grim. To much dark coupled with the usual dysfunctional companions would turn me off. Even in the heart of war with death and destruction all around, people still find reasons to smile and find joy. So for me, more of a chaotic mix of classic dark and high fantasy light.

 

When the world is "dark", your "light-side" actions seem that much more heroic by contrast. Also, heroism is cheap in a setting with no serious flaws. I think that being a hero shouldn't be effortless and costless (and by implication, instinctive).

[legbamel]

What I don't want is the kind of dark that relies on sadism, torture, and violence. I don't want a gore-soaked cruelty-fest that my PC slogs through on her way to saving them all from themselves. I want hard choices, situations where both sides have merits (or neither does) and "kill them all and let Andraste sort them out" isn't an option.

I want the "investigate" dialogue choices to matter to the story: throw twists and details in there, entice people to click on them. Give the big bad evil in a situation a burning desire to get home to his little girl's dance recital that I only know about if I really talk to people.

ETA that the only character I have going full-on dark side is a Sith who hates the Empire for the fact that she grew up as a slave and would like to destroy all of those people calling themselves Sith that don't have a drop of real Sith blood in them.  She wants to burn it all and dance in the flames.  Most of the time the "dark side" choices are "sociopath" choices rather than "dark".

Modifié par legbamel, 02 février 2013 - 05:05 .

[Nimyue]

yeah it can be dark along the way, but I want a freakin happy ending. And I want a romance at the end. For example the Alistair and warden, you guys get to be mostly happy, running a kingdom is not all happy joy joy, but still in love and happy. Zev and warden, either run the Crows together or he sticks with you building up the wardens... good stuff.

[AstraDrakkar]

I don't mind it being very dark....as long as there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[bucketOFme]

I want it as dark as DAO if not a tinsy bit darker. I loved how the little boy in the Sacred Ashes quest had a freaking finger in his pocket while he sat there and recited creepy little poems in his cultist village. The haunted orphanage and the brood mother rhyme gave me chills, ya know stuff like that. Conner, I loved it. I loved the humor too. Then the sad decisions that tear your heart out but are kinda unavoidable in some instances.
DA2 had it's moments...but they didn't impact me as much as DAO did. Like the mother quest, and....well.......Act 3 Merril's quest...kinda.
I want light as well. I enjoy the fun lighthearted quests. Like acting as Oghren's wing man at one point, that was fun.

[imbs]

bucketOFme wrote...

I want it as dark as DAO if not a tinsy bit darker. I loved how the little boy in the Sacred Ashes quest had a freaking finger in his pocket while he sat there and recited creepy little poems in his cultist village. The haunted orphanage and the brood mother rhyme gave me chills, ya know stuff like that. Conner, I loved it. I loved the humor too. Then the sad decisions that tear your heart out but are kinda unavoidable in some instances.
DA2 had it's moments...but they didn't impact me as much as DAO did. Like the mother quest, and....well.......Act 3 Merril's quest...kinda.
I want light as well. I enjoy the fun lighthearted quests. Like acting as Oghren's wing man at one point, that was fun.

Some of this is so true (altho i disagree on the mother quest being good... that story was just awful, contrived and the frankenstein former crush/lover/wife thing is overplayed) - I absolutely agree with you on the Finger bone kid in haven and the brood mother rhyme is chilling to say the least.

Modifié par imbs, 03 février 2013 - 07:17 .

[DarthLaxian]

well, darkness is ok, if it is not made artificially (if it is not over exagerated at the expense of anything else - like say in Battlestar Galactica (the new version of course) were the whole series IMHO suffered because of this exagerated darkness, hopelesness and over exagerated amorality of humanity when faced with harsh decisions (some of that immorality i felt was perfectly justified in a living or dying situation!))

so yeah, some darkness, yes, but lightness, too (and no over exageration of either element because it is so immersion breaking if something bad/dark happens just for the sake of bad/dark)

greetings LAX

[Yumichika]

jlmaclachlan wrote...

for me... I prefer darker and more mature themes, like TW2 or game of thrones as broad examples? (I do not mean the nudity etc, but rather the tone of them)

I loved DA:O but one of the many problems I had with Da:2 is that it felt like a child's game in comparison. From the story to the art style it just felt lightweight and aimed at a younger audience, IMO.

I have to admit it DA2 was dark, just cause it has to be dark. I mean the elves genocide or other awfull things like everybody being a mage where in Origin it's like mage are a rare aptitud. All the mages starting being blood mages then from blood mages to abomination. And the darkspawn trying to be frightenning after the bath/shower they got before the battle. In ome points and i don't remember how much i said it to me DA2 was more a teen game.

I was surprised and shocked in Origin cause the game really start when u drink the blood of darkspawns. That was creepy and disgusting and in some points i was thinking it make sens if we wanna defeat the archdemons.

As DA is a mature game they should really go for it for GS. I felt very close to each companions. Wynne who was supposed to die a long time ago. Morrigan was just another body to her mum. Zevran a lost child with a lot of nasty sad stories to tell. Leliana with a past of crimes but now completly transformed, Shale narrow mind etc etc... Even the little kid whose only word is enchantment (forgot the name) when i saw him standing among dozens of darkspawn and ogre corpse i though what a terrific kid where this game will end? plus that unforgatable night with Morrigan. To be short in Origin the dark really made sens. And ur companions were bringing the light u needed to move on.

[Ravensword]

Black as midnight on a moonless night.

[karushna5]

I like mature games, but I really, really dislike games where they put in really terrible things just for the sake of them. I can think of a few examples but it is really depressing to mention them. These things more than anything else made me dislike many otherwise good games. The racism in the first game was very mature, but so was responsibility that was handled maturely as is most of the game.

I don't think torture is mature, at least not how it usually falls in video games, but they are so rampant everyone is immune to it, but that is violence something ubiquitous in games any way, but assault is something I see constantly as mature. It isn't, in fact hardly anything makes it less mature than to add it haphazardly and say there it happened. I can't play the city elf origin but thankfully you can avoid it, in more ways than one.

I can handle scenes like that if handled maturely, one movie comes to mind in what I have seen. I love that movie and can watch it partly because they handle it maturely. I really worried when people seem to think these things are mature

[Wolven_Essence]

Oh I would totally love it to be as unsettling and gut wrenching and all of that as possible.  I enjoy that kind of fiction and in my opinion, there just ain't enough of it.

But of course there has to be a light at tne end of the tunnel.  I mean, the real world is unsettling enough, I don't want my fiction to be all darkness and death.

Modifié par Wolven_Essence, 14 mars 2013 - 05:31 .

[Starshaker]

Great Question: I would have to say I want a good mix. I enjoyed playing the Witcher games, but they were a little too dark ALL the time. I think my dream game would be a mix. This might not be possible, but if I feel like going down a dark path that day let it get really dark! If I choose to be a blood mage I can still be nice, but BLOOD mage is in BLOOD mage for a reason. Make me limited unless I do horrible things to give myself more power. If you don't like it don't be a blood mage... WARN people before they choose that class though...
On the other hand... Make the regular mage not nearly as mature, but still make it an adult game. His decisions would be similar to DA; O such as let a demon live so that you can have power. Find a lamp with a genie in it and choose to have to choose to let someone live or die... Choose to release the genie or leave him slaved... Make the wishes enticing though... So a contrast depending on the path you choose. If I want to feel lovey dovey one day LET ME if I want to feel like a sadistic killer the next day LET ME.

[BouncyFrag]

Bioware games have had their fare share of 'dang, thats dark!' moments (KOTOR and Mission, DA:O using alienage elves to make yourself more powerful, etc.). DA2 felt like Hawke was meant to be a hero for the city, whereas DA:O I felt like you were your own person to shape and act as you saw fit. I'd like this to return to DA:I.

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 14 mars 2013 - 05:46 .

[Kulyok]

It depends on the presentation, I guess. If there are choices, dark decisions to make and dark experiences to go through, it's all fine, unless(see below).

For example, Connor's choice in Redcliffe was very well done - dark solutions, light solutions, practical but not so pretty solutions, a notion of a soul being taken by a demon. Same with the golems in the Anvil of the Void - you can't honestly say which solution will be better in the long run and which will cost more; and what could be darker than putting human or dwarven souls into stone and metal shelves for all eternity? Although "ten feet and invulnerable(and immortal!)?" holds true, too.

Sexual themes, rape themes, mercy killing, leaving someone to die and dealing with it - it's all often a part of a good story, and I'd say when a quest is about sex, it's bound to be popular.

Obviously, there are double standards here: if all this cheating and raping is about someone else, great. If my protagonist's love interest cheats on her(Jacob!) I doubt I'd be happy.

However, I have problems when the game screams "this choice is BAD(=my choice), pick THIS instead!" For example, in the Magistrate's Orders nearly all party members vocally advocated the brutal solution - to kill the defenseless escaped prisoner(who, in turn, showed mercy and let the kidnapped elven girl go). More than that, Magistrate's Orders awards you with a huge shower of approval points if you kill him, and since approval points ARE much harder to come by in DA2(cough Carver cough), it's hard to stick to your guns and to choose the option YOU prefer - and all these rivalry points leave you with a bitter aftertaste, especially since no one from the party agrees with you.

I also am disappointed when something seems forced(like Orsino's transformations in both DA2 paths, or the inability to warn the escaped blood mage's innocent wife in the Alienage in Act 3, when something's clearly wrong).

But on the whole, many DAO and DA2 choices and themes were incredible - the decision about your siblings, the decision about Loghain and Alistair, the Dark Ritual, the choice about Flemeth(who saved your life), the Anvil and Redcliffe. Probably these are more memorable because they involve characters we care about.

And, yeah, I want a happy ending.

[Faerloch]

I want to slay children and sell my companions into sex slavery.

A bit darker than DA2, hopefully.

[grumpymooselion]

I guess it would depend on how I played, whether things should get better or worse . . . as such, I wouldn't want the work more dark or the alternative. I'd rather the world edge toward being what I make of it, by my actions, effecting the well being of myself and those around me in various ways.