332 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

The word dark has lost all significant meaning to me at this point.

[SongstressKitsune]

I'm going to hop in with the people saying that they want a balance. I don't want to be choked by the darkness of my game; that's no longer fun and enjoyable. I do like happy endings, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate sad ones too. I just did a re-playthrough of Origins that ended with my Warden's LI leaving her and her dying. It broke my heart SO GOOD. And that was because of my choices.

I actually enjoyed DA2 as well, even granted that I hopped right on the Plot Express in the endgame - because I liked that the game really showed you that Hawke is just one person, and s/he cannot fight against these gathering forces. A lot of the things others complain about are things I enjoyed - Orsino losing it was actually relatively believable to me (he's faced with almost certain death, his apprentices are littering the ground around him, the Templars are closing in, and he's clearly breaking into little fragmented crazy pieces) and I take a nasty kick straight to the feels every time I do All That Remains because there is no good way out of it.

However, if there is no way for me to get an ending I consider "good" (and for Hawke, I'd consider "getting the hell out of Kirkwall with his/her LI" to be a pretty good ending) then I'll probably do most of the story and quit right before the end, and just never finish it.

[Howlsfury]

I want dark story with tones of a vibrant color palate.

[RaidenXS]

Quick and sudden death to a companion please! I liked how someone "had" to die in DA:O and in DA2 either Anders would be executed or Sebastian would bring an army from starkhaven and destroy Kirkwall. We need hard desicions.

DON'T CODDLE US BIOWARE.

[KingsTiger]

I'd like a Dresden Files level of dark. Tough choices and seemingly overwhelming opposition are fine, but never losing the sense of fun, humor, or action is crazy important. We should have the chance to win as well. Not all of the time, but if we work for it, ripping away a happy ending for the sense of "darkness" it provides is just cheap storytelling. If I wanted to be made miserable by my recreational media, I'd watch the news. No, thank you.

On that note, why does "dark" seem to be intrinsically linked with "good" or "deep" in so many people's minds? I even see articles praising works specifically for making the reader/viewer/player feel bad about themselves. What's up with that?

[Kabraxal]

DA:O ability to determine the balance. If it is just forced doom and gloom then the game would lose all appeal. There is far too much reliance on "tragedy" in entertainment right now to pull emotions and it has ruined many a franchise. It's even worse when game involving choices railroads an emotional outcome instead of letting player agency determine said outcome.

[RepHope]

For me a combination of both would be welcome. I personally enjoy Earning My Happy Ending and I feel this should be an option. On the other hand I do enjoy dark themes and choices but I feel that these should mostly concern with how you deal with the problem at hand and that party members and the LI interactions should be more lighthearted

[JasonShepard]

I'm going to focus on one character in DA:O for how I'd like this balance to be struck: Leliana.

Why? She's the most downright optimistic, idealistic member of the team (narrowly beating Wynne, since Wynne can be notably severe at times, whereas Leliana gets into a discussion with Shale about SHOES for goodness sake...). Yet, at the same time, Leliana's backstory makes it clear that she has gone through hell and back again. And she is in no doubt as to the danger of the Blight. She has plenty of room for character development, yet never quite loses her 'sugary' side.

So, in conclusion: Take me to dark places. Please. I like the dark. But never make me lose sight of the light either. Go to both extremes, and explore the contrast.
Of the two, I prefer dark, but you need both for it to work.

(In re-reading this post, I realise that Leliana doesn't exactly highlight what I like about the dark, but she's a good example of how I like 'light' to be done in a 'dark' universe.)

Modifié par JasonShepard, 15 mars 2013 - 12:44 .

[darrylzero]

I think the trick is mostly honesty -- darkness should reflect what feels natural. That line is going to be different for everyone, but for me it mostly has to do with not shying away from the authoritarian and inegalitarian nature of feudalism, and the pervasiveness of prejudice and xenophobia in much of human history.

However, the other trick for me is that the darkness should be scary, not just heavy. For me, the darkness of the political situation in Kirkwall would have been better illustrated by Hawke having to really hide his or his sister's magic from prying eyes. That goes for racial and/or sexual prejudice as well. Make the player vulnerable. Force me to conceal things, to hide. The authoritarian structures of medieval society should feel dangerous and scary to the player, not just serve to remind us that they're oppressive.

That goes for the twisted variant of dark as well as the oppressive. The broodmother was memorable because that scene was genuinely spooky. Dude who killed Hawke's mom was not memorable, for me anyway, because I felt like I was being pounded over the head with how twisted he was, rather than being made to fear him.

Maybe it's just me, but I love moments where I can really feel just how precarious my character's situation is. The gold standard for me was that NWN mod "A Dance With Rogues," and I would love for the DA series to capture some of that. That mod relied pretty heavily on the threat of sexual violence and especially the ways the main character had to use her sexuality to survive and progress through the game, and Bioware's not going to go too far down that road, for mostly good reasons.  Honestly it was probably overdone anyway, but it did a magisterial job of making me feel vulnerable.

DAO had some good moments that had that kind of feeling though. Both the human noble and city elf origins conveyed it, in different ways, and one of my favorite moments in any game ever was setting out with Alistair and Morrigan from Flemeth's hut with this huge, impossible task in front of me. I only wish the game could have maintained that feeling for longer.

My biggest critique of DAO (which I thought was mostly fabulous) is that I've always thought the game would have benefited from a greater sense of menace surrounding the possibility of being discovered by Loghain's forces. If we would have had to go into hiding and conceal our identities everywhere we went for a while, that would have really resonated with me. The game played with it a bit, but it never made me genuinely afraid of being discovered as a warden (or of Morrigan being discovered as an apostate). If it had, that would have been amazing. The same is true of DA2, particularly since apostasy was such a ready-made reason for it.

In conclusion, darkness through fear and tragedy not through gruesomeness or hand wringing.

Modifié par darrylzero, 16 mars 2013 - 09:58 .

[karushna5]

I can deal with anything just not sexual assault, if that happens to the PC or we watch it to a close companion I think it crossed a line that is impossible to go back on. I can't imagine how traumatizing that would be.

[Noctis Augustus]

As much as possible. Any sense of horror and dread is welcome. I also like the graphics and UI to reflect that as well.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 12 avril 2013 - 12:17 .

[Hazegurl]

Darth Death wrote...

Are you hoping for some unsettling, gut wrenching, ethically disturbing themes surrounding your DA3 experience? Or are some of you hoping for a hug with a nug approach? What do people think when they hear the word "dark fantasy"? And how much of that do you want to experience in DA3?  

I would like the choice to be the evilest sob in the entire game.

[DeinonSlayer]

karushna5 wrote...

I can deal with anything just not sexual assault, if that happens to the PC or we watch it to a close companion I think it crossed a line that is impossible to go back on. I can't imagine how traumatizing that would be.

I'm playing DA:O for the first time. They don't show anything, but... what happened to Shianni...

You'd have to be one soulless f*** to leave her with Vaughan. I only wish my rogue had taken his head clean off. I'm sure there's a chamber pot somewhere in the room for disposing of it.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 12 avril 2013 - 02:14 .

[Karlone123]

ibbikiookami wrote...

As much as possible. Any sense of horror and dread is welcome. I also like the graphics and UI to reflect that as well.

That would be a interesting tone to have in a game setting like DA.

[Welsh Inferno]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
I'm playing DA:O for the first time. They don't show anything, but... what happened to Shianni...

You'd have to be one soulless f*** to leave her with Vaughan. I only wish my rogue had taken his head clean off. I'm sure there's a chamber pot somewhere in the room for disposing of it.

She was raped. When you meet King Cailan there is some confirming dialogue. 

Its nice that you get a chance to gut Vaughan whatever origin you pick. Scumbag.

[Reaverwind]

darrylzero wrote...

That goes for the twisted variant of dark as well as the oppressive. The broodmother was memorable because that scene was genuinely spooky. Dude who killed Hawke's mom was not memorable, for me anyway, because I felt like I was being pounded over the head with how twisted he was, rather than being made to fear him. 

That scene just failed for me on so many levels. The game never established a strong connection to "mother". I always found her an annoying NPC, so wasn't sad to see her go. The game destroyed the shock value of that scene with the comic appearance of zombie mom, and further diminished it with the melodrama afterwards. I consider it one of the better comedy scenes of the game.

[Malanek]

DAO and DA2 were fine with the level of "darkness". I don't consider whether something has a happy ending or not has much to do with the tone though.

[N147]

For once I'd like for my character to face a traumatic moment, like say a child or family member dies in front of their eyes, and him say "I don't give a ****." I want to have control over his emotions, unlike Shepard where he has nightmares over some random brat, and goes ape**** over a good Asari stripper joke.

[DeinonSlayer]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
I'm playing DA:O for the first time. They don't show anything, but... what happened to Shianni...

You'd have to be one soulless f*** to leave her with Vaughan. I only wish my rogue had taken his head clean off. I'm sure there's a chamber pot somewhere in the room for disposing of it.

She was raped. When you meet King Cailan there is some confirming dialogue. 

Its nice that you get a chance to gut Vaughan whatever origin you pick. Scumbag.

I know she was. I was alluding to it. And in light of that, gutting Vaughan is simply a matter of principle.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 12 avril 2013 - 03:48 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Sexual abuse, gore and necro....the three combination needed to make DA:I dark....

[Chiramu]

Dark as in a Tim Burton movie dark? Or lots of swearing and sex scenes?

I would like my dark fantasy to be properly dark. People in Thedas are too clean for being poor, they should smell more and look filthier. Kirkwall was pleasantly clean as well as Denerim. No beggars on the side of the road, no no, Thedas is much too classy.

[Raydiva]

What the heck is up with people wanting to make every single game series I like 'darker?' I like the balance it had in DA:O. A combination of funny, happy times that make the the darker times seem darker than they really were in comparison.

[Killdren88]

I want the level of DA:O where people can get different outcomes to their liking. For instance you can have a heroic victory at Redcliff if you fight on hard enough or be in mourning the next day with everyone but your party remaining. You can kill a mother or her child or go the extra mile and bring the circle to help. You can be the celebrated alive hero or the honored dead hero. Basically give everyone the option to set the mood on their own. Be it your the hero beating the odds, or a Hero who had to make great sacrifices. That way everyone is happy.

[Milady]

I want to be disgusted. I want the game be so dark that I would like to throw my PC straight out of the window, but somehow still captures me and urges me to keep on playing. The game also has to contain it's little rainbow and unicorn moments, otherwise the rest isn't so shocking/dark/disturbing and will become dull.

[Frolk]

The other DA games gave us some horror elements (most memorably, the broodmother), tough ethical decisions, and bad things happening to good people who you've grown to care for. It also had comedy and a few genuinely heartwarming moments. I think the writers did a good job finding the right balance between hug-a-nug and grimdark and I hope the tone of DA3 is kept the same.

That said, I would like to see a bit more horror. Broodmother was genuinely creepy but I can't think of any other quest that gave me such a visceral reaction.