332 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Cameron Lee wrote...

As long as I can ride a pony called twinkles I’ll be happy.

Seriously though, this is a good topic and I’m interested in where on the "hug with a nug" scale people want their games.

Personally I’m a fan of leaning more towards dark, with enough contrast and comedy thrown in to give a game meaningful pacing, personalize the characters and to let me relax when I want to put up my +5 sword of smackdown and order ale from a tavern wench… or whatever you call a male wench?

As long as the game isn't too dark like the Witcher 2, I might be happy.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 25 janvier 2013 - 10:53 .

[Medhia Nox]

I'd like a game that aimed for more mature themes.

Dark themes are - more often than not - the exact opposite of mature.

[Darth Death]

 Interesting progression. Even a Bio-dev decided to bless this thread with pony & wench talk to my unexpected surprise. Oh snap, things just got seriousB). It would seem though that people either want a mixture of dark themes alongside with comic relief, or just exclusively dark storytelling. Either way, the "dark" seems to be "in".     

[byzantine horse]

Not many games do dark. Well, not many games do dark well. I think Origins is one of few that do, with a visual direction to go with. Therefore I want DA3 to be dark as well, both in visual style and story telling. Obviously there can and must be lighter themes in the game, it should not be outright depressing to play, but it would be great if serious dilemmas were brought to light. What if some Spec Ops the Line was brought into the game, or some Witcher 2? If handled well that could be a very interesting thing indeed.

Do I require the game to be dark though? Yes I do. Dragon Age is supposed to be dark and serious. The universe is literally plagued with issues of various kinds and when Thedas from the outset in DAO is portrayed as a dark, unfair and sometimes unsettling place I don't want that to change. However characters like Alistair etc, being lighthearted personalities that give us players a laugh inbetween the serious parts is exceptional and something I probably could not be without.

Modifié par byzantine horse, 25 janvier 2013 - 02:45 .

[lx_theo]

Whichever fits the story better. From what I've experienced lately, tone can do great in setting up story plots. It just needs to be consistent. A consistant dark tone can create opportunities for happy moments to feel a lot happier due to the contrast. A consistent light and fun tone creates great times when you take the tone in a much darker direction and those moments hit you much harder.

Though a consistent tone will also mean dark moments won't feel as strong during a consistent dark tone and the same thing with light tones during consistent light tones. They just don't get the impact you want. For example, in DA2 (as much as I loved the game), when Hawke's mother dies, I don't feel as though it had the impact it could have because the tone when dealing with mage and templar conflict was already pretty dark to begin with. Let's say, if mages had been painted in a more heroic light up to that point.... Making the act seem contrast to what had been established... I think it would have hit much harder. If the game went on to keep with the message that all mages were capable of that and such, then the point of the scene decision making wise would have been accomplished as well.

Ultimately, whatever way that best permits them to tell the story they want and make the moments they ant to be effective to be effective would be best.

Modifié par lx_theo, 25 janvier 2013 - 03:35 .

[macrocarl]

So long as it doesn't get so unrelentingly sad dark. There were a couple points in DA2 where I felt like it was being forced. A good example of going to far to coax a little emotion out of the audience is 'Dancer In The Dark'. The Dancer In The Dark moment for me in DA2 was when Hawke's mom died. In itself I liked it but then adding in a couple more sad dark missions before and after it I just felt like it was kind of cheap. (But for the record, I'm nitpicking, over all I really dug DA2)

[Silas7]

I don't want the setting completely dark or it will start to feel like I never make any progress in bettering the lives of the PC and the companions. If the setting was darker it could also help the times of when i do the right thing stand out, kinda like stars in the night sky.

[TheJediSaint]

"Dark but not too dark" would probably be the best way to describe how I like my RPG experiences. Since I tend to play pathologically heroic characters, I find that if the overall setting is pretty dark, then their heroism stands out all the more.

[Satanicponies]

Cameron Lee wrote...

As long as I can ride a pony called twinkles I’ll be happy.

Seriously though, this is a good topic and I’m interested in where on the "hug with a nug" scale people want their games.

Personally I’m a fan of leaning more towards dark, with enough contrast and comedy thrown in to give a game meaningful pacing, personalize the characters and to let me relax when I want to put up my +5 sword of smackdown and order ale from a tavern wench… or whatever you call a male wench?

OH OH PICK ME!

Depending on the time period and your definition of a wench. A buck, a rake, or a rogue

Edit: Theres probably more but these, these are the best

Modifié par Satanicponies, 25 janvier 2013 - 04:42 .

[fightright2]

With the title "Inquisition", we can be certain to expect various physical tortures that can no doubt play a huge effect on the mindset of the victim.

What I am curious is to what kind of mental anguish will we see on a purely twisted scale.
Whether it be knowingly or not. The victims can end up just as twisted if not worse.

[Dave of Canada]

Okay, more in-depth view of what I'd like: The game doesn't start off with everyone being brutally depressed or horrified about what's going on around them, they'd be joking around and trying to enjoy their lives as the events of the plot haven't taken it's toll.

However, time and events burden them and you'd see some of them change. The father who tries to raise his daughter becomes cold, the joker has trouble laughing and the protagonist finds difficulty to be comforted by what surrounds them. Perhaps you'd throw in different scenes, the joker invites everyone to the bar for a round of drinks or the father invites the party for dinner.

The "light" aspects are shelters in the storm of the plot's "dark", it creates a bond with the companions as they're going through the same as you. By the time you've reached the end, you don't want any of them to die despite how much you might hate them because they've been through everything with you and they're your in-game version of family.

I'd like to mention The Walking Dead as having done this well, the plot was always very dark and you'd become an emotional wreck but you'd have a moment where someone just plays their guitar or you talk with someone who tries to relieve the burden from your shoulders and... it was just nice. You felt for everyone, they were your shelter as you were theirs.

Hell, the fact that you'd bond with characters who'd hate your guts but hung out with you because they had nowhere else to go was amazing.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 janvier 2013 - 05:02 .

[Cutlass Jack]

I don't want it too dark. I hate having to turn up the gamma on my screen so I can see whats going on.

[Beerfish]

Dark has become cliche. The big problem is that it is very difficult to stick 'dark' content in that is believable, does not go too far or not far enough and that does not let the player feel like they have been helplessly railroaded. You should often have a way out of a dark situation. An example of this for me is the momenstein quest.

Interesting quest, horrific outcome that is a surprise to the player. However there is no way to avoid it in subsequent play throughs. It just becomes an annoyance that time after time you can do nothing to solve the situation.

The right way to do it is ME2, when your ship mates get taken from the Normandy. Though you are railroaded into the actual abductions and can very well lose crew there is a way out and in subsequent play throughs you can rescue them.

[Potato Cat]

While I'd love some really dark themes, they're all absolutely useless without the lighter, comedic and "hug with a nug" moments, because those are what makes you really care for the characters. That's why in the Walking Dead Game, there were so many little coversations with Clementine and tiny little funny moments with Lee. There can't just be tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. No one likes a whiner.

One of the reasons I love Shianni, is that while she is the victim of one of the most darkest, horrific things in world, but both before and after there are moments of humour and frivolity, (love that word). If there weren't these little, lighter conversations, I would not care as much for this character as I do. These moments are what make them real.

[fightright2]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Okay, more in-depth view of what I'd like: The game doesn't start off with everyone being brutally depressed or horrified about what's going on around them, they'd be joking around and trying to enjoy their lives as the events of the plot haven't taken it's toll.

However, time and events burden them and you'd see some of them change. The father who tries to raise his daughter becomes cold, the joker has trouble laughing and the protagonist finds difficulty to be comforted by what surrounds them. Perhaps you'd throw in different scenes, the joker invites everyone to the bar for a round of drinks or the father invites the party for dinner.

The "light" aspects are shelters in the storm of the plot's "dark", it creates a bond with the companions as they're going through the same as you. By the time you've reached the end, you don't want any of them to die despite how much you might hate them because they've been through everything with you and they're your in-game version of family.

I'd like to mention The Walking Dead as having done this well, the plot was always very dark and you'd become an emotional wreck but you'd have a moment where someone just plays their guitar or you talk with someone who tries to relieve the burden from your shoulders and... it was just nice. You felt for everyone, they were your shelter as you were theirs.

Hell, the fact that you'd bond with characters who'd hate your guts but hung out with you because they had nowhere else to go was amazing.

Yes! This!

[Mims]

I am at the point where I can't take 'omg dark themes' anymore seriously than I can 'light/heroic' cliches. A plot element needs to be able to stand on its own as being interesting and engaging, not because it fit some sort of checklist of qualities.

Granted, any work is going to be slanted towards one or the other. But there's a very, very fine line between writing a dark story, and having a story with dark elements used in a transparent attempt to manipulate the audience.

The biggest case in point that comes to mind? The death of Hawke's mother. Added absolutely nothing narratively, barely connected to the main plot, and was basically there for emotional manipulation.

[Giltspur]

Well what does one mean by 'dark'?

I suppose I lean towards dark, whatever that is.  But the reason I lean that way is I like emotional intensity and contrast of emotion.  Some might look at the mage-templar conflict and go "Put torture in it so that it will be dark and mature!"  Well, not necessarily.  If you focus on the physical side of torture, that's not particularly mature so much as it's merely graphic and possibly shocking.  Now, what about focusing making it to where you can see both sides of a conflict and where you humanize the individuals by giving them strengths and weaknesses in different contexts.  That may or may not be dark.  But it's certainly mature, and I like that sort of thing.  Part of what makes Game of Thrones is appealing is that Ned isn't always right, and Cersei isn't always wrong.  So I definitely like to see my heroes have flaws and struggles and make mistakes.  And I like my villains to be such that I can empathize for them and feel bad about their downfall.  This happens more frequently in "dark" stories.  But it doesn't necessarily need to hit "dark" topics like murder or torture or whatever.  It can.  I'm fine that so long as the writers do it in a good way. 

But mostly the reasons I look for dark stories is because I want emotional complexity and frailty mixed with strength in characters.  In other words, I don't want anything to be easy.  Basically, I think of the Keats quote about beauty being truth and truth being beauty.  And for me, what is stereotypically beautiful (all of the positive things) is not as beautiful as the raw juxtaposition of both dark and light.  In other words, I'll appreciate the "good" characters if the story goes to some dark places.  This reminds me of an idea in Card's Speaker for the Dead.  If I hear a eulogy about everything a person did right, I'm going wonder what's being left out.  But if you include all the unflattering or dark things in the story, then despite my cynicism and world-weariness, I can appreciate that person's story more.

Modifié par Giltspur, 25 janvier 2013 - 07:01 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Giltspur: I get what you meant about Game of Thrones - but Cersei is ALWAYS wrong. Seriously - that character alone makes me wonder if Mr. Martin doesn't have some sort of misogynistic streak.

I think the show does a HUGE disservice to Sansa Stark who I think is one of Martin's deepest characters in the books. Despite all the crap that's been thrown at that girl - some small part of her STILL believes in fairy tale kingdoms - and I think when all is said and done - she'll be part in making just such a place on Westeros.

That's the kind of character I'm interested in.

You know - I absolutely don't want a concentration of villains I can empathize with. There's no amount of "mommy/daddy issues" that can make me empathize with anyone of the characters I've ever been presented as villains in these stories.

What I'd rather see - and I think is far more fresh - is heroes who's struggles I can relate to.

- The warden is "fine" because that story (good vs. evil) is so well used that it has become familiar. But ultimately - his struggle against an all powerful corrupting force is unfamiliar to anyone in our modern era (the closest we get on our Earth are the massive military empires of our past).

- I can't relate to Shepard's struggles for the same reason. I've never fought an all powerful force bent on my annihilation - and neither can anyone who's ever played the game. Still - we get by because we have an education of sorts in understanding what these types of stories "should" mean.

- Perhaps "some" can relate to Hawke - but I certainly cannot relate to an effete coward who's a victim/witness in his own story.

Note: The fact that these characters use relatable means to defeating unrelatable odds only underscores the amount of suspension of disbelief needed for these games. Plucky groups of friends - with a love interest - haven't, as a rule, overcome such monolithic obstacles in reality. Said groups are far more competent at overcoming real world - actually mature - obstacles.

People who think this model should work "because it's a game" - and then go argue about "dark" and "mature" - make me laugh.

Bioware employees excluded - because even if they didn't believe in the viability of the Scooby Gang model - they'd still use it because it's profitable (and that's sensible).

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 janvier 2013 - 07:53 .

[AndrahilAdrian]

pitch black.

[Sir JK]

One of the things that I like the most with Thedas is that I find the setting fairly relateable in terms of Darkness. I could see what transpires in the games as things that could happen in the real world. And I really like that, it's a very delicate balance to strike. There's plenty of settings that go beyond that, making the world so incredibly bleak that there seems to be no purpose of living. That's a bit too far from me and takes away from the appeal in my meaning. A song of Ice and Fire, the world of Darkness and the Witcher (II was better than I, in this regard) tries a bit too much sometimes and it hurts my immersion a bit.

So I guess I want the current level of Darkness. I do not want to go towards comic book villains and I don't want a crapsack world. I want it to be believable, relateable and fairly grim. A touch of cynicism with a few bright spots of optimism. Idealism muddled by practical concerns. Horrible things done as a consequence of the unintended or the misguided in pursuit of the fantastic.
A world I could see myself living in, but not necessarily one I want to live in.

[Ravensword]

Like my coffee.

[Lisa_H]

Dark, but hopeful. It can take up mature themes and ask difficult questions. But I still want a sense of hope and a feeling that life can be hard, but things can also get better.

[Plaintiff]

"Dark" is a meaningless buzzword, so I don't care.

[wright1978]

Giltspur wrote...

  Part of what makes Game of Thrones is appealing is that Ned isn't always right, and Cersei isn't always wrong.  So I definitely like to see my heroes have flaws and struggles and make mistakes.  And I like my villains to be such that I can empathize for them and feel bad about their downfall.  This happens more frequently in "dark" stories.  But it doesn't necessarily need to hit "dark" topics like murder or torture or whatever.  It can.  I'm fine that so long as the writers do it in a good way. 

When i first started reading i thought Ned's honour should be the death of him. Thankfully Martin realised this was his fatal flaw, too many writers would have had him triumph. Done right a villain should make you empathize with them rather than being moustache swirling evil for the sake of it. I loved Me2's TIM and DAO Loghain because i could see what they were doing even if i didn't like what they were doing.

Modifié par wright1978, 25 janvier 2013 - 09:33 .

[Iakus]

Ravensword wrote...

Like my coffee.

Me too

BTW I like a lot of cream and sugar