332 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePhoenixKing]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I want a story in which people who are good do so despite there being evil in the world, not by pretending it doesn't exist. I want emotional trials and adversity that are overcome, not avoided. I want idealists who stick to their ideals despite the costs they bring, not because the costs are never applied.

This. A thousand times this.

Talonfire wrote...

I think it's better to balance things out.

Frankly, I have agree with the other folks who have commented that this dark trend the various entertainment industries are going through is getting a bit old. I don't mind dark stories, but when the entertainment industry is saturated in them they start to become mundane and tiresome.

Agreed as well. Is it too much to ask for the heroes of a story to be, you know, actually heroic? To have their virtues outweigh their flaws, and have them be a force for positive change?

[Brodoteau]

Zkyire wrote...

The Dragon Age universe is plenty dark as it is (some of the storylines are downright horrifying).

The problem is they just don't "show" enough of it.

Examples:

- There's torture - but you don't see it happen.

- A man is left to starve to death in a cage in Ostagar, but you don't see him die, or really suffer beyond "Dude, I'm hungry".

- Human Noble Origin, your little nephew is butchered, but you arrive after the fact.

So yeah, the universe is plenty grimdark, I'd just like to see more things happen, rather than arrive afterwards.

This.  The people that want a "darker" storyline are not taking the time to appreciate how horrible life in Thedas is for the most part: 
-- Mage freedom is impinged (and no I'm not looking for a mage-templar argument here just stating a fact)
-- Mages are made tranquill
-- Little children are routinely killed or possessed
-- Parents are routine slaughtered -- in DA2 your mother was killed by a gruesome serial killer
-- Cannibalism occurs (especially with ghouls and darkspawn)
-- and the list could go on.
So there's lots of dark and yet people still wanted a "grittier" story
A lot of the time I feel those use the term "mature" really mean "sex and nudity" (re: The Witcher series:  ooh, I can see pixel boobs that makes it much more mature!) and those that want a dark setting really want to see more torture, death and gore.  Why do you need this? Does it improve the game?
 For others, darkness is synonym with "hopeless"  and I don't think that's a good setting for any game.  You have to find a balance.  A Song of Ice and Fire for example is plenty dark, but there is always the idea that things could get better, so the books are not hopeless ... yet. 

[Vilegrim]

dark at times, real down and nasty, with the ability of the PC to be as dark as everyone else, if not worse, but with hope still, and an ending that if not happy isn't so 'bitter sweet' (and I have noticed some very bitter BW endings) that you wonder why you bothered.

Brodoteau wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

The Dragon Age universe is plenty dark as it is (some of the storylines are downright horrifying).

The problem is they just don't "show" enough of it.

Examples:

- There's torture - but you don't see it happen.

- A man is left to starve to death in a cage in Ostagar, but you don't see him die, or really suffer beyond "Dude, I'm hungry".

- Human Noble Origin, your little nephew is butchered, but you arrive after the fact.

So yeah, the universe is plenty grimdark, I'd just like to see more things happen, rather than arrive afterwards.

This.
 The people that want a "darker" storyline are not taking the time to
appreciate how horrible life in Thedas is for the most part: 
-- Mage freedom is impinged (and no I'm not looking for a mage-templar argument here just stating a fact)
-- Mages are made tranquill
-- Little children are routinely killed or possessed
-- Parents are routine slaughtered -- in DA2 your mother was killed by a gruesome serial killer
-- Cannibalism occurs (especially with ghouls and darkspawn)
-- and the list could go on.
So there's lots of dark and yet people still wanted a "grittier" story
A
lot of the time I feel those use the term "mature" really mean "sex and
nudity" (re: The Witcher series:  ooh, I can see pixel boobs that makes
it much more mature!) and those that want a dark setting really want to
see more torture, death and gore.  Why do you need this? Does it
improve the game?
 For others, darkness is synonym with "hopeless"
 and I don't think that's a good setting for any game.  You have to find
a balance.  A Song of Ice and Fire for example is plenty dark, but
there is always the idea that things could get better, so the books are
not hopeless ... yet. 

The Witcher 2 also had the ability for you to join thwe 'terrorists' (As declared by the kings that they fought against) or staying with the torture using secret police, it showed you the result of torture and maiming (and some of those images where genuinly shocking) , it showed everyone involved to be flawed, and brutalised by what they did, to be prejudiced and capable fo immense cruelty, but also loyal to their friends and the ideology they followed. to be capable of mercy and nobility,  everyone had a consistent motivation for what they did and how far they would go.  There was definetly maturity in the story telling, beyond pixel nipples.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 28 janvier 2013 - 04:52 .

[CrazyRah]

I'd like the story to be in general rather dark and gruesome and that i actually see and feel it. But i'm not interested in a story that's depressing either so it would be ideal that good and happy things do happen in the story to give hope but also to contrast all the horrible things that do happen

[Yumichika]

Celene II wrote...

I dont want hug with a nug but i dont want my entire extended family slaughtered on ever mission. I would like the darkness to come from my decisions, not laid at my feet by circumstance

For example, there is a family of elves living near my castle and I want to expand into that area and put in some other building.

The darkness comes from me wanting power, but not willing to pay for it.

Should i slaughter the elves?

Pay them an outrageous sum?

Boot them off the land and take the consequences of my actions when they scream about it?

That is what i want to see, darkness when i decide, not when they decide

+1
plus also some very dark companions, darker than Anders. Morrigan is a sweat herated girl. Well Flemeth is a good dark character too and Loghain daughter is a naughty evil girl. I was surprised to see how evil she was. Glad i put her in Jail. But having Dark companions and also getting dark by decision troughout ur actions during games for a better ending is excellent.

[Travie]

Cameron Lee wrote...

As long as I can ride a pony called twinkles I’ll be happy.

Seriously though, this is a good topic and I’m interested in where on the "hug with a nug" scale people want their games.

Personally I’m a fan of leaning more towards dark, with enough contrast and comedy thrown in to give a game meaningful pacing, personalize the characters and to let me relax when I want to put up my +5 sword of smackdown and order ale from a tavern wench… or whatever you call a male wench?

The male version of wench is 'swain'. 

I knew that degree would come in handy eventually, whoohoo!

[Morty Smith]

I get the impression that "dark" is for the 21 century, what "extreme" was for the 90´s.

As for how "dark" I would want DA3 to be, I say as much that the "fun" is still visible.

Modifié par Kroitz, 29 janvier 2013 - 03:55 .

[TheWarden51]

 I love the idea of a dark fantasy where everything one group does is shrouded in secrecy and suspicion

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I want a story in which people who are good do so despite there being evil in the world, not by pretending it doesn't exist. I want emotional trials and adversity that are overcome, not avoided. I want idealists who stick to their ideals despite the costs they bring, not because the costs are never applied.

I'm fairly sure DA2 had all of this, actually.

[Dave of Canada]

Kroitz wrote...

As for how "dark" I would want DA3 to be, I say as much that the "fun" is still visible.

Wonderful! Glad we both agree that the game must be ridiculously bleak with little pandering.

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

As for how "dark" I would want DA3 to be, I say as much that the "fun" is still visible.

Wonderful! Glad we both agree that the game must be ridiculously bleak with little pandering.

Personally, I believe it's better to err on the side of light. It'll anger fewer people, and generally the ones who prefer darkness can eke better enjoyment out of that than the reverse.

[thejake1453]

Dragon Age needs to be a dark and gritty world, ME 2 and ME 3 did this well by showing themselves much more violent then ME 1, but how they really did it was by changing up the art and colours. ME 1 seemed  to me very colourful and bright whereas the others, blacker and redder.
The trick is to have it bleak, dark and violent, where morality is various shades of grey - but there is a trick to it. If its continiously grey and dark, people get desensitised or just go "Lame". The trick is you have to have brief or occasional moments of light, moments of victory, moments when people can go "Thank f***", moments where people can think "Perhaps it won't be so bad after all".

Grittiness can be created through just the combat aswell. DA-O Was too slow, nobody swingsa sword that slow, they would be killed 11 fights out of 10 in the real world. On the other hand, this is a western game, not an anime like DA2 thought it was. No, you cant do that with a sword that big and no, stabbing people in the back doesn't make them explode from the waste up. Thats bloody and gory but not gritty and dark.
Realism can really help amp up the dark and gritty

[9TailsFox]

Dragon age origin dark.

[TEWR]

Pitch black.

Close all the damn windows! Douse the torches! Seal up every crack and crevice! 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 29 janvier 2013 - 06:50 .

[mickey111]

3.14 watz

[XX-Pyro]

mickey111 wrote...

3.14 watz

Shame watts aren't a unit of "light" or "dark".

[Wulfram]

400 lux. Sunrise or Sunset on a clear day.

[Annie_Dear]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Pitch black.

Close all the damn windows! Douse the torches! Seal up every crack and crevice! 

But what happens when you step outside?

[TheRealJayDee]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Okay, more in-depth view of what I'd like: The game doesn't start off with everyone being brutally depressed or horrified about what's going on around them, they'd be joking around and trying to enjoy their lives as the events of the plot haven't taken it's toll.

However, time and events burden them and you'd see some of them change. The father who tries to raise his daughter becomes cold, the joker has trouble laughing and the protagonist finds difficulty to be comforted by what surrounds them. Perhaps you'd throw in different scenes, the joker invites everyone to the bar for a round of drinks or the father invites the party for dinner.

The "light" aspects are shelters in the storm of the plot's "dark", it creates a bond with the companions as they're going through the same as you. By the time you've reached the end, you don't want any of them to die despite how much you might hate them because they've been through everything with you and they're your in-game version of family.

I'd like to mention The Walking Dead as having done this well, the plot was always very dark and you'd become an emotional wreck but you'd have a moment where someone just plays their guitar or you talk with someone who tries to relieve the burden from your shoulders and... it was just nice. You felt for everyone, they were your shelter as you were theirs.

Hell, the fact that you'd bond with characters who'd hate your guts but hung out with you because they had nowhere else to go was amazing.

I completely agree with everything you said. I do have problems though believing that Bioware can really do something like this. And this isn't meant to diss the writers, I just don't see an experience like TWD's go well with DA2's gameplay, especially the combat.

[Moricant]

Dark enough that we know the world is screwed without our character's intervention.

Light enough that there is still some hope that it can be saved, and that it is worth doing so.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I want a story in which people who are good do so despite there being evil in the world, not by pretending it doesn't exist. I want emotional trials and adversity that are overcome, not avoided. I want idealists who stick to their ideals despite the costs they bring, not because the costs are never applied.

I'm fairly sure DA2 had all of this, actually.

I was fairly satisfied with DA2's general tone and morality system for a reason. Unlike Mass Effect and even a good deal of DAO, I felt that DA2 made a good balance of tone and idealism: sometimes morality wins out, but the world doesn't change just because the protagonist is naughty or nice.

DA2 had its flaws, but the world's moral balance wasn't one of them. Just the depiction at times.

[TEWR]

Annie_Dear wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Pitch black.

Close all the damn windows! Douse the torches! Seal up every crack and crevice! 

But what happens when you step outside?

I'll admire the graphics but find the story to be very bland.

[Thasinta]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Annie_Dear wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Pitch black.

Close all the damn windows! Douse the torches! Seal up every crack and crevice! 

But what happens when you step outside?

I'll admire the graphics but find the story to be very bland.

The setting can be pretty grim and dark sometimes, though.

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I want a story in which people who are good do so despite there being evil in the world, not by pretending it doesn't exist. I want emotional trials and adversity that are overcome, not avoided. I want idealists who stick to their ideals despite the costs they bring, not because the costs are never applied.

I'm fairly sure DA2 had all of this, actually.

I was fairly satisfied with DA2's general tone and morality system for a reason. Unlike Mass Effect and even a good deal of DAO, I felt that DA2 made a good balance of tone and idealism: sometimes morality wins out, but the world doesn't change just because the protagonist is naughty or nice.

DA2 had its flaws, but the world's moral balance wasn't one of them. Just the depiction at times.

Then I suppose there's something that can satisfy us both, but while I was content with DA2's moral victory at the end, I'd rather have something more in DAI.