176 réponses à ce sujet

[Selene Moonsong]

 IMO...

I was satisfied with the ending, original and EC.

Whether any given player like, dislikes, accepts, disapproves, tollerates, or is indifferent about the ending is purely subjective on the part of the individual player and there are many varying degrees in all the adjectives mentioned  as to where an individual may be between the extremes.

A software developer usually considers information provided by feedback from fans, but if a a developer were to design a game based primarily on feedback from fans, the game would be impossible to create and you certainly wouldn't have any  kind of a cohesive plot and may as well design a storyless sandbox game where players can do what they want anywhere, it would be pure chaos.

BioWare builds some very enjoyabe games based on the story they want to tell. They provide players with the oppportunity to direct the game they play through their choices and actions. They also need to have an end point for a game and do a pretty good job of narrowing down to that end point. How they do it may please some players, and may not please others, but that is always the risk, and pleasing everyone is something that is simply not possible in an interactive, story-based game.

As Samara once suggested in ME 2, put three humans in a room and you'll have 6 different opinions.

[Methaluan_Sylver]

 Nice post, someone should make a cartoon out of that XD

But assuming the fan base is all the same optinon is kind of... unacurrate.I am fine with the endings and I am sure many are as well. I stand in the middle of the thing, I have my creative creations and I dont like to change it either after its done. Say you dont like it and why is cool, but attempting to change the creators work is... problematic...

There could be more to it, but that is true to most endings of anything.What seems to be "under averrage" ending may turn out to be a key part of a sucessfull ME4. The creators of the game put the most work into it, they know the angles they know what they are doing and what they want to do.

If they do everything by concessus for the fanbase,Bioware would not be a game company but a factory. If someone does not like the ending, find a fan fiction and other stuff that fan made and make it your ending because that what you are asking Bioware to do.

If you are upset about he endings may be because Bioware may have spoiled you with awesome stories. For me most other entertainment stuff games/movies Once done, chances are it is done or set aside, most dont get "go complain about the ending" optcion, but if someone do it because he/she/it(for those Geth out there) care.

Anyways, that my opinion. I am going inside because if I wrote a speach like this, changes are I am taking to much sun to my head.

TL;DR version: If you go outside wear hat.

Modifié par Methaluan_Sylver, 24 janvier 2013 - 01:23 .

[Rhiens VI]

Very well put, OP.

However, I side with Bioware. Get over the goddamn ending already!

[ste100]

I have no problem with the ending, but i would like to see improved Priority Earth mission + War Assets cinematics - other missions like Tuchanka or Rannoch are amazing, but Priority Earth ?
Short, light, just poor...

[surleygentelman]

For GOD'S sake its over already the endings are what they are weather you like or hate them deal with it. It is time for both sides to stop whining about a VIDEO GAME. No died because of this, no one was hurt emotionally or physically because of this. Priorities people. The very fact that this argument continues to exist on in any form is further proof that Human Civilization needs to go the way of the Dinosaur or the Dodo.

[ManOfSteel]

To quote Yahtzee Croshaw of 'Zero Punctuation' fame.

"Fans are clingy complaining [expletive] who will never be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill tremulous voices the happier you'll be for it."

The people that still complain about the ending are some of the most annoying people going.

Franky, I'm on BioWare's side with this one. If I spent hundreds of hours creating something, I'm not going to go and change it because a group of people constantly whine about it. It's their story and their creation, therefore it's their decision to make.

Add to it, with extra scenes and content, sure thing. (You know, like they already have. People should start being a little more grateful), but I don't see why they should rewrite it entirely, just to appease certain vocal individuals.

[TMZuk]

I really didn't want to post here anymore. By and large I'm done with the Mass Effect franchise. However... @op: Great post. Made me laugh.

The problem, as some other posters pointed out, isn't nescessarily that Shepard dies. The problem is that Shepard dies no matter what, (sorry, not counting the breathscene as surviving.) And the really BIG problem is the Starbrat, and the mumbo jumbo nonsense that is presented as reasons and solutions.

I know some people like it. All I can say is that they must have a secret desire to take on a role as Messiah. As to my self, I was disgusted, not only because of the mumbo jumbo, but because everything from the death of T.I.M. is so out of context with the rest of the series.

It's like watching Blade Runner in it's original release. Suddenly, they are driving through a beautiful autumn landscape, that there's no hint exists in the rest of the movie, and the girl isn't dying anyway, just because.... Utterly disconnected from a very bleak and sinister story.

Likewise, the Starbrat is utterly unconnected to the rest of Mass Effect, and so is the idea that Shepard is a Messiah. It's sloppy writing, sloppy design and utter failed quality assurance.

It wouldn't be so bad if EA-Bioware would own up to it, but as they are playing the ostrich it becomes so much more infuriating.

It was a great ride, that unfortunately fell short of reaching a conclusion.

Modifié par TMZuk, 24 janvier 2013 - 03:49 .

[Icinix]

I would much rather a DLC that adds dialgoue choices for Shepard through various parts in the game - especially those long scenes without them where I watch what appears to be someone elses Shepard engage in a cinematic with a character in a way my Shep never would have.

[surleygentelman]

*comment removed*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 24 janvier 2013 - 04:24 .

[Epic777]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

 IMO...

I was satisfied with the ending, original and EC.

I have to ask, how can anyone be satisfied with a conclusion that is so divorced from the main plot?

[Cutlass Jack]

Epic777 wrote...

I have to ask, how can anyone be satisfied with a conclusion that is so divorced from the main plot?

Because the message you should take from this thread is not all fans have the same opinion.

Personally I wasn't satisfied by the last ten minutes of the game either. Fortunately the entire game preceeding it gave me the closure I wanted before I got there.

[Fredvdp]

I think the perfect ending is one that cobmines both happy and sad elements, and the extended cut gave us exactly that. In this case, 'perfect' is not really the right term because of some serious flaws in the quality of the writing, but I really liked that while the overall ending was happy, not everything ended up being perfect. I'm being vague, but this is the no-spoiler forum after all.

I think the biggest criticism against the endings was not that it's unhappy, but that it didn't make sense. Michael Arndt, screenwriter of Toy Story 3 and Star Wars Episode VII, recently said that the ending of a story is the part where you realize the purpose of the story. This is definitely not the case in ME3. The ending came out of nowhere.

[Sanunes]

Fredvdp wrote...

I think the perfect ending is one that cobmines both happy and sad elements, and the extended cut gave us exactly that. In this case, 'perfect' is not really the right term because of some serious flaws in the quality of the writing, but I really liked that while the overall ending was happy, not everything ended up being perfect. I'm being vague, but this is the no-spoiler forum after all.

I think the biggest criticism against the endings was not that it's unhappy, but that it didn't make sense. Michael Arndt, screenwriter of Toy Story 3 and Star Wars Episode VII, recently said that the ending of a story is the part where you realize the purpose of the story. This is definitely not the case in ME3. The ending came out of nowhere.

So do you think it would have been better if the final scene(s) after you reach the beam would have been better recieved if they eluded to that through the different missions a little more?  Like in Mass Effect 2 at several occasions they were talking about how going through the Omega Relay was a sucide mission because nobody has ever returned?

[Selene Moonsong]

Epic777 wrote...

I have to ask, how can anyone be satisfied with a conclusion that is so divorced from the main plot?

I would reply, but this is a non-spoiler discussion forum section.

[AlexMBrennan]

[quote]Not everyone wants a new ending. Some of us are fine with Shepard dying. Shep dying does not mean the ending was bad. The whole Starchild thing is what made the ending bad.[/quote]
That's a strawman - Op never said anything about not liking Shepard's death.
[quote]When did creating games for a passion become diluted by fans as it was some fast food resturant to satisfy every need?[/quote]
When Bioware started charging people for the games. If you want to work as a ame developer, you have to make games people like or they will stop buying your games and you will have to get another job.
Everyone else does it - test screening movies is routine, books are changed to appeal to the audience (e.g. "Sorcerer's stone" for Americans), and Bioware has always done this (e.g. Imoen was only added to BG late when fans didn't like having to take along one of the evil thieves in a good party, and Imoen survived Spellhold because fans didn't like her dying).

Why are you bringing this up now?

[quote]What is wrong with giving the fans what they want? Simple. Not all fans want the same thing.[/quote]
Firstly, I doubt that anyone thought that having three identical pallete swapped cinematics was a good idea - I challenge you to find the fan that preferred that this pre-EC option.

Secondly, adding more options for those that want them does not necessarily mean forcing them on the rest (although I admittedly can't think of a way to placate fans of Godchild)
[quote] The endings are great and they tie up the game and provide closure[/quote]
You can't just state your personal and controversial opinion as fact.

[quote]A software developer usually considers information provided by feedback from fans, but if a a developer were to design a game based primarily on feedback from fans, the game would be impossible to create and you certainly wouldn't have any kind of a cohesive plot and may as well design a storyless sandbox game where players can do what they want anywhere, it would be pure chaos.[/quote]
Really? A cheap appeal to emotion?
Again, everyone else uses focus groups - why should it uniquely result in the death of video games?

[quote]BioWare builds some very enjoyabe games based on the story they want to tell. They provide players with the oppportunity to direct the game they play through their choices and actions. They also need to have an end point for a game and do a pretty good job of narrowing down to that end point. [/quote]
You cannot state personal opinion as fact when it is this contested because personally I feel that ME1 and ME2 having no impact whatsoever on the plot of ME3 was not a "pretty good job".

[quote]As Samara once suggested in ME 2, put three humans in a room and you'll have 6 different opinions[/quote]
You are citing a fictional character who may be incorrect, lying or bat-excrement insane.

You are also citing one of the least likeable character in the trilogy (yes, introducing a character by having her threaten the murder of countless police officers makes sensible people not like them... Gee, who'd have thought that?)
[quote]If someone does not like the ending, find a fan fiction and other stuff that fan made and make it your ending because that what you are asking Bioware to do.[/quote]
But why *pay* Bioware then? That's the crux of the matter - for me to remain a paying customer and buy any of the DLC or ME4, Bioware would have to at least axe godchild. I can imagine a satisfactory outcome for free.

[quote]It is time for both sides to stop whining about a VIDEO GAME. No died because of this, no one was hurt emotionally or physically because of this[/quote]
You might be surprised to hear that there are laws and regulations governing things other than homocide and assault. Cf sale of goods act, advertising standards agency.

If You bought a pair of shoes that doesn't fit because the manufacturer lied about the size then you'd want your money back too even if it was cheap pair of trainers for just £40. You are legally entitled (notice the correct use of the word) to a product that matches its description and is fit for purpose.

If you can't deliver a given feature, don't promise it in an interview the week before the game is released. That's all I'm asking for.

[quote]Franky, I'm on BioWare's side with this one. If I spent hundreds of hours creating something, I'm not going to go and change it because a group of people constantly whine about it. It's their story and their creation, therefore it's their decision to make. [/quote]
Sure, as long as you are willing to get a real job when they stop buying your product. But you cannot subsequently say that future DLC depends ob Leviathan sales because that would be hypocritical.

[quote]You know, like they already have. People should start being a little more grateful[/quote]
You never hear from 96% of unhappy customers. For 2% of customers (by total sales) to join something like Retake Mass Effect, you'd need something like 50% of customers to be unhappy with the product.

[quote]GET OVER IT !!![/quote]
I certainly won't stop complaining whilst masseffect.com continues to advertise the game using cut content in videos (interactive storytelling)
I may stop complaining when I get a refund (since amazon did offer refunds, I suppose the lesson is to not buy from Origin)

As for the original question, I think that Bioware needs to admit that the writing sucked rather than hiding behind the "artistic integrity" defence. Having learned to deal with criticism, you can then proceed to deal with fan input in a meaningful way.

Not every suggesting will work, but you are mot going to get anywhere as long as Bioware pretends that the problems in ME3 were an intentional choice and artistic vision (again, find me the guy that decide that making three identical ending cinematics was a good, artistic idea rather than a shortcut to save time)

[Fuzrum77]

While it's obviously true that we as fans have varied opinions on the ending, I have to believe that the vast majority of us are at the very least somewhat dissatisfied with it. I have zero statistical evidence to back that up, but just from my personal life...EVERYONE I know personally disliked, if not hated, the ending. And EVERYONE -they- know disliked it. And that is a lot of people. Now they could be lying to me about that as I have no way to know for sure.

I don't think there's any way we'll ever have reliable statistics on this. Anyway, nice post OP. I chuckled.

[Iakus]

Selene Moonsong wrote...


BioWare builds some very enjoyabe games based on the story they want to tell. They provide players with the oppportunity to direct the game they play through their choices and actions. They also need to have an end point for a game and do a pretty good job of narrowing down to that end point. How they do it may please some players, and may not please others, but that is always the risk, and pleasing everyone is something that is simply not possible in an interactive, story-based game.

It certainly does not help that this "interactive, story-based game"'s endings have a certain... sameness... regardless of any chocies made.  That lack of interactivity, lack of choice, displeases a large segment of the fanbase (note I did not say "majority" as i do not know that fro fact)

Railroading a character to that degree will make people angry.  And, imo, justifiably so.  There may be disagreement as to the details on what people would have preferred to happen.  But in broad outlines, they're in agreement on one thing.  And why that one thing was denied perplexes me to this day.

[10K]

Personally the ending never bothered me. There was so much other things wrong with ME3, the ending didn't seem like a big issue for me. This was the end of Shepard story after all, how he went out wasn't on my mind.

[Sejborg]

Speak for yourself OP.

[N7-RedFox]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Dhoozy77, I think you're under the misapprehension that the "fans" are a cohesive entity that all want exactly the same thing. Even if they all wanted a "happy ending," there would be more than a little disagreement on just what that meant, just as the current endings can be (and has been) interpreted many different ways.

You can see evidence of this by looking at the responses in this very thread. Not everyone agrees all the time. And at this point, even if BioWare were to do what they already said they wouldn't, some groups would be incensed that some other group got what they wanted, leaving other groups disappointed.

I've seen too many posts and threads by many many fans to even question their wants for a Happy/LI ending. If you want proof just check out some of the Polls which are ending-orientated. The numbers speak for themselves.

But here's the thing, Bioware doesn't have to change the other endings. A happy ending is merely an OPTION. Which means we could easily have a small scene after Shepard's breath scene of him/her being rescued etc.

OR

We could choose Control/Synthesis. Is that so bad? Is that so difficult? An option is an option, you can take it or leave it. But just think about how many disgruntled fans would suddenly become happy fans if the happy ending OPTION was there to take.

Modifié par N7-RedFox, 24 janvier 2013 - 08:52 .

[Ninja Stan]

This is just a reminder that all opinions can be discussed without resorting to nastiness. Calls for those who disagree with you to "get over it" are inappropriate behaviour for the BSN. Please respect other people's viewpoints even if (especially if) you disagree with them. Don't merely dismiss those viewpoints; discuss them. Thank you.

[RukiaKuchki]

OP - I am a huge ME fan. I'm not saying I am more or less of a fan than you, but I am one of that group known as the 'fans' nonetheless. I do not want what you want. I do not need to see a happy ending. I do not need to see a reunion with the LI. I do not need the ending to change. I did not see Bioware being disrespectful or flippant with 'the fans'. I am certain I am not alone in this. Therefore, your use of the term 'fans' to imply 'everyone' or 'some majority' or some group with special rights is incorrect. This is just another post saying what 'you' want, not what 'the fans' want. Why don't you be brave and use the term 'I' instead of hiding behind silly terms such as 'the fans want', 'we want', 'most people want' etc, in the misapprehension that you are speaking for everyone? You are only speaking for yourself. There's nothing wrong with that, it's your opinion, but you should have the strength of character to say it's your own opinion. You are one of many who do that here, and it makes me feel that you need the support of a random group of people with a vaguely similar opinion to justify your own stance. It's more fun and meaningful to discuss things with an individual rather than a nebulous group.

[surleygentelman]

This discussion is the damn dumbest thing I have ever read. It's not relevant anymore why is the ending important anymore? Are we that much of whiney little punks? Get over it you like endings fine you hate the endings fine. Both groups deal with a move on. Bunch of schmucks on the forum.