176 réponses à ce sujet

[Ambivalent]

What is wrong with bioware giving the fans what they want?

The same reason Radiohead created Kid A, a great but heavily electronical music influenced album after being recognised as a great rock band. Or the same reason that Pink Floyd is disbanded and wouldn't unite except Live Aid concert. Or the same reason Metallica kicked out Dave Mustaine who created best thrash metal album ever(Rust In Peace) and showed middle finger to them in my opinion.

So well, artists make choices. Good or bad, sensible or not.

Bioware created this universe(Just like George Lucas did with Star Wars) and chose an ending to saga(Just like prequels of Star Wars) but some fans hated the last ones(Just like Star Wars)

And yes, none of these bands or artists changed themselves or their creations because some of their fans disliked the controversy installment.

And just to record i really liked the EC.

[Fredvdp]

Sanunes wrote...

Fredvdp wrote...

I think the perfect ending is one that cobmines both happy and sad elements, and the extended cut gave us exactly that. In this case, 'perfect' is not really the right term because of some serious flaws in the quality of the writing, but I really liked that while the overall ending was happy, not everything ended up being perfect. I'm being vague, but this is the no-spoiler forum after all.

I think the biggest criticism against the endings was not that it's unhappy, but that it didn't make sense. Michael Arndt, screenwriter of Toy Story 3 and Star Wars Episode VII, recently said that the ending of a story is the part where you realize the purpose of the story. This is definitely not the case in ME3. The ending came out of nowhere.

So do you think it would have been better if the final scene(s) after you reach the beam would have been better recieved if they eluded to that through the different missions a little more?  Like in Mass Effect 2 at several occasions they were talking about how going through the Omega Relay was a sucide mission because nobody has ever returned?

Leviathan changed my perspective of the ending, so it certainly doesn't hurt. The ending has other problems, like the appearance of the Catalyst, which I think can only be fixed by changing it in the ending itself.

I could go deeper into why I don't like the appearance of the Catalyst, but not in the no-spoiler forum.

[Faust1979]

N7-RedFox wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Dhoozy77, I think you're under the misapprehension that the "fans" are a cohesive entity that all want exactly the same thing. Even if they all wanted a "happy ending," there would be more than a little disagreement on just what that meant, just as the current endings can be (and has been) interpreted many different ways.

You can see evidence of this by looking at the responses in this very thread. Not everyone agrees all the time. And at this point, even if BioWare were to do what they already said they wouldn't, some groups would be incensed that some other group got what they wanted, leaving other groups disappointed.

I've seen too many posts and threads by many many fans to even question their wants for a Happy/LI ending. If you want proof just check out some of the Polls which are ending-orientated. The numbers speak for themselves.

But here's the thing, Bioware doesn't have to change the other endings. A happy ending is merely an OPTION. Which means we could easily have a small scene after Shepard's breath scene of him/her being rescued etc.

OR

We could choose Control/Synthesis. Is that so bad? Is that so difficult? An option is an option, you can take it or leave it. But just think about how many disgruntled fans would suddenly become happy fans if the happy ending OPTION was there to take.

Maybe a 100% happy ending doesn't fit they're vision of the game. Maybe they feel it's better to divert resources to something else.  Endings have to fit the story to having a more up beat ending for the sake of one or just because some fans want it doesn't warrant changing the tone of the game.

[Iakus]

Faust1979 wrote...

Maybe a 100% happy ending doesn't fit they're vision of the game. Maybe they feel it's better to divert resources to something else.  Endings have to fit the story to having a more up beat ending for the sake of one or just because some fans want it doesn't warrant changing the tone of the game.

WHo said anything about 100% happy?

And for myself none of the endings we got fit the tone of the story I was telling

[visionazzery]

 errrmm what kind of question is that?

me thinks the op is a bioware rep in disguise;)

It called common sense...you cannot satisfy everyone all the time but that the only thing people agree with you here op on.

But it common sense to not do something to ****** off the masses to be quite frank yea some people go overboard with whingeing but when you have  MAJORITY by par to none (ie look at the amount of pages you got in this topic yet for the same timeframe the opposite point of view of a topic was present on the forums it attracted 10 fold as many responses that,. in itself explains why people are peed off with bioware and ea.

I sorry to say it as it is but disenchantment is on such a grand scale and disilusionment with me3, that it beckons the questions seriously do bioware or ea know anymore how to satisfy the majority? despite the fact you cannot satisfy every fan in every which way, surely there a case that bioware did not take on board majority of the fans input or feedback and that type of things makes fans feel insulted...a client, a patient will only see their respective specialist if they tend to their main point of concern they dont expect it to be perfect they expect it to be acceptable in how their major concern, not withstanding minor ones, are addressed.

Now imagine Bioware is the doctor and you are the patient...do you want something AT LEAST satisfactory as a resolution even if it not EXACTLY WHAT tyou want but clearly much better than the original diagnosis? i rest my case

'

[Faust1979]

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Maybe a 100% happy ending doesn't fit they're vision of the game. Maybe they feel it's better to divert resources to something else.  Endings have to fit the story to having a more up beat ending for the sake of one or just because some fans want it doesn't warrant changing the tone of the game.

WHo said anything about 100% happy?

And for myself none of the endings we got fit the tone of the story I was telling

Bioware tells the story they just let you guide through the story they want to tell. They all bring closure in some way I feel the endings are what they needed to be to end the game. I honestly don't see any way they could have ended without making a group of people angry. A lot of people have to many ideas on how they want the game to end. Even if they did provide a new set of endings some group will be upset with them others won't, there is no way to make everyone happy. Some people just need to learn that in life the things you like will sometimes dissapoint you. That's a fact

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Maybe a 100% happy ending doesn't fit they're vision of the game. Maybe they feel it's better to divert resources to something else.  Endings have to fit the story to having a more up beat ending for the sake of one or just because some fans want it doesn't warrant changing the tone of the game.

WHo said anything about 100% happy?

And for myself none of the endings we got fit the tone of the story I was telling

I'd accept ending choices that are actually delivered in a manner and by proponents by that make sense and integrated into the narrative. Oh and provide closure for all endings, rather than leaving one holding its bowl up Oliver Twist style saying 'Can i have some more please sir?"

[Acrylium]

I still won't buy anything more unless there's been a happy ending Shepard and Liara. I did not bought any DLC and I won't buy any ME4 or even DA3 unless BioWare starts giving fans what they want.

[bip78]

The ending is the reapers mind fu**ing Shep. The new DLC will be BW telling everyone that the ending is fake and here is the one we want.

They only did what they did to gain complaints and the press

[Faust1979]

Acrylium wrote...

I still won't buy anything more unless there's been a happy ending Shepard and Liara. I did not bought any DLC and I won't buy any ME4 or even DA3 unless BioWare starts giving fans what they want.

how did video gamers ever get it into their heads that companies owe them anything? because they don't when did this change happen exactly? I think it's an honest question to

[Iakus]

Faust1979 wrote...

Bioware tells the story they just let you guide through the story they want to tell. They all bring closure in some way I feel the endings are what they needed to be to end the game. I honestly don't see any way they could have ended without making a group of people angry. A lot of people have to many ideas on how they want the game to end. Even if they did provide a new set of endings some group will be upset with them others won't, there is no way to make everyone happy. Some people just need to learn that in life the things you like will sometimes dissapoint you. That's a fact

Then they shouldn't have given us choices.  And certainly shouldn't have told us they matter.

They should not have given us optimistic dialogue options

They should not have given us moments of hope

If you can't please everyone, then try to please as many people as possible, not just those who like their stories grim, with a side of dark.

[Faust1979]

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Bioware tells the story they just let you guide through the story they want to tell. They all bring closure in some way I feel the endings are what they needed to be to end the game. I honestly don't see any way they could have ended without making a group of people angry. A lot of people have to many ideas on how they want the game to end. Even if they did provide a new set of endings some group will be upset with them others won't, there is no way to make everyone happy. Some people just need to learn that in life the things you like will sometimes dissapoint you. That's a fact

Then they shouldn't have given us choices.  And certainly shouldn't have told us they matter.

They should not have given us optimistic dialogue options

They should not have given us moments of hope

If you can't please everyone, then try to please as many people as possible, not just those who like their stories grim, with a side of dark.

I've seen all my choices I made throughout the game affect the story line in some way they did try and please as many people as possible and in a few early interviews about Mass Effect 3 they talked about the game being darker than the previous two.  There were a few upbeat moments here and there you're making decisions in this game that effect galaxies and civilizations there are no real positive outcomes in war. The tone of the game was perfect

[Iakus]

Faust1979 wrote...

I've seen all my choices I made throughout the game affect the story line in some way they did try and please as many people as possible and in a few early interviews about Mass Effect 3 they talked about the game being darker than the previous two.  There were a few upbeat moments here and there you're making decisions in this game that effect galaxies and civilizations there are no real positive outcomes in war. The tone of the game was perfect

GIven that you, me and many, many  others are still arguing over this nearly a year later, I'd say this is demonstrably not the case

[Acrylium]

They should not have given us optimistic dialogue options

Especially this dialogue with Liara during the "Shadow Broker"-DLC where Shepard promises her, not to die. The Shepard I know would never ever break his promise, no matter what.

[Faust1979]

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

I've seen all my choices I made throughout the game affect the story line in some way they did try and please as many people as possible and in a few early interviews about Mass Effect 3 they talked about the game being darker than the previous two.  There were a few upbeat moments here and there you're making decisions in this game that effect galaxies and civilizations there are no real positive outcomes in war. The tone of the game was perfect

GIven that you, me and many, many  others are still arguing over this nearly a year later, I'd say this is demonstrably not the case

Just because people argue about it doesn't mean it's not true. I'm glad that it treats it's subject matter seriously.  Some gamers these day just don't seem to want games that challenge them they just want escapism without never wanting to think about the things they do or that goes on. If games want to have visual narratives and tell stories they need to start pushing boundries and sometimes tell stories that are dark and grim, the mass effect universe can be a dark and grim place. The story is about the death of millions perhaps billions you can't treat that stuff in a light hearted manner, these are M rated games so sometimes a story needs to reflect that with more than just lots of swearing or over the top violence. This is the most adult story line in a Mass Effect game yet

[Iakus]

Faust1979 wrote...

Just because people argue about it doesn't mean it's not true.

WIth a subjective statement like "the tone of the game is perfect"  Yes, yes it does.  If it generates this much hate, it's very, very, imperfect.

I'm glad that it treats it's subject matter seriously.  Some gamers these day just don't seem to want games that challenge them they just want escapism without never wanting to think about the things they do or that goes on

Word of advice:  cut back on the pretentious attitude.  You'll be tken more seriously that way.

If games want to have visual narratives and tell stories they need to start pushing boundries and sometimes tell stories that are dark and grim, the mass effect universe can be a dark and grim place. The story is about the death of millions perhaps billions you can't treat that stuff in a light hearted manner, these are M rated games so sometimes a story needs to reflect that with more than just lots of swearing or over the top violence. This is the most adult story line in a Mass Effect game yet

The first two games are rated M also.  Their endnigs are considerably more upbeat (well, not the failSHep ending in ME2).  Were they doing it wrong then?

Also, not asking for a 100% perfect ending (feel the need to reiterate that because it always seems to revert to that falacious  generalization)  Just a more upbeat one.  One that's more hopeful for Shepard personally.  

Would that seriously turn ME3 into a romcom?

Modifié par iakus, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:49 .

[Faust1979]

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Just because people argue about it doesn't mean it's not true.

WIth a subjective statement like "the tone of the game is perfect"  Yes, yes it does.  If it generates this much hate, it's very, very, imperfect.

I'm glad that it treats it's subject matter seriously.  Some gamers these day just don't seem to want games that challenge them they just want escapism without never wanting to think about the things they do or that goes on

Word of advice:  cut back on the pretentious attitude.  You'll be tken more seriously that way.

If games want to have visual narratives and tell stories they need to start pushing boundries and sometimes tell stories that are dark and grim, the mass effect universe can be a dark and grim place. The story is about the death of millions perhaps billions you can't treat that stuff in a light hearted manner, these are M rated games so sometimes a story needs to reflect that with more than just lots of swearing or over the top violence. This is the most adult story line in a Mass Effect game yet

The first two games are rated M also.  Their endnigs are considerably more upbeat (well, not the failSHep ending in ME2).  Were they doing it wrong then?

Also, not asking for a 100% perfect ending (feel the need to reiterate that because it always seems to revert to that falacious  generalization)  Just a more upbeat one.  One that's more hopeful for Shepard personally.  

Would that seriously turn ME3 into a romcom?

doubtful but with enough EMS there is something hopeful that Shep survives. They weren't doing it wrong they were hopeful endings because they worked, they only had a small idea of what they were really in for. ME 3 shows all the characters how wrong they really were and how unprepared they were full on Reaper invasion.  Reality sets in for the characters

[Iakus]

Faust1979 wrote...

doubtful but with enough EMS there is something hopeful that Shep survives. They weren't doing it wrong they were hopeful endings because they worked, they only had a small idea of what they were really in for. ME 3 shows all the characters how wrong they really were and how unprepared they were full on Reaper invasion.  Reality sets in for the characters

Not enough hope.  And since this is the non spoiler forum I won't go into why.  But there are plenty of threads in teh spoiler area that go into detail as to why.

[Syroel13]

 Think of it this way.

If you spent 2 years, countless amounts of money, and came out with a project you absolutely loved and thought was amazing and everyone bags on it. Would you really want to change it to please the people yelling at you?

[dynakill]

Just to add to the OP,

Bioware: Mass Effect 4 launch day is here!!!

Fans: Can't wait to play.. <Gets home, pops in game> Create new character!!!! WTF!!!! #@$@KFJFWKW!!!!
           NO GODA#M SHEPARD!!!! WTFFFF!!!!!

Bioware: Not this again! <smacks forehead>

Fans: ME4 Sucks!!

Bioware: ME5 Canceled,, **** the fans...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My short  final opinion of the game:

The whole game was a let-down.

Problems I faced:

Multiple choice ending.. What did I play ME1 & 2 for? Why did I make all these choices? Why did I replay them over and over to see all of the options? Why isn't there like 6 endings that are triggered by the choices you previously made? This was a huge let-down and I am depressed with the way it ended.. The EC was nice and all, but it still didn't fix the fact that all your choices are for nothing..

The Leviathan/Catalyst/Reaper back story is garbage. They should have left the mystery of the Reapers a mystery. Thats what was so interesting about Mass Effect. The Reapers, where they came from, what is there purpose, why do they destroy life, who created them? Those questions kept me interested. Now that they are all answered, I have no itch to scratch.

Shepards fate in every ending (before EC).

Seeing that all of the endings were the same except for a few palette swaps and  swapped out cut-scenes. (Lazy)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Should Bioware appease the fans?  No.  Why? Whats done is done. They wont be able to erase the depressing endings from my brain. They wont be able to fix 90% of the game. The fact that the Reapers story is completely blown open. Lets be done with it.

I love ME1 and 2, but 3 is what you get when you sell your soul to the devil (EA). EA doesn't care. They probably rushed Bioware to finish, just like they made them make it more action oriented and less RPGish to try and get the COD fans interested.

TBH, I think Im done with the series all together. It was really awesome playing part 1. Part 2 was an improvement in some areas but kind of lacked in others. Part 3,, I don't even want to consider it being part of the series. Too many things wrong with it. So many that I need a whole other thread to write all that info.

Thanks EA you officially crapped on my fav series.

ME4... No Thanks.

There are a lot of things I left out, I'm not even going to bother.

Modifié par dynakill, 24 janvier 2013 - 11:39 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Faust1979 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

I've seen all my choices I made throughout the game affect the story line in some way they did try and please as many people as possible and in a few early interviews about Mass Effect 3 they talked about the game being darker than the previous two.  There were a few upbeat moments here and there you're making decisions in this game that effect galaxies and civilizations there are no real positive outcomes in war. The tone of the game was perfect

GIven that you, me and many, many  others are still arguing over this nearly a year later, I'd say this is demonstrably not the case

Just because people argue about it doesn't mean it's not true. I'm glad that it treats it's subject matter seriously.  Some gamers these day just don't seem to want games that challenge them they just want escapism without never wanting to think about the things they do or that goes on. If games want to have visual narratives and tell stories they need to start pushing boundries and sometimes tell stories that are dark and grim, the mass effect universe can be a dark and grim place. The story is about the death of millions perhaps billions you can't treat that stuff in a light hearted manner, these are M rated games so sometimes a story needs to reflect that with more than just lots of swearing or over the top violence. This is the most adult story line in a Mass Effect game yet

this game is not challenging ... neither interlectually nor gameplay-wise. it is full of clishés and kitsch. (thats ok btw.)

making a series darker and edgier (in order to make it look more "adult"), is a common trope. in apr. 95% of the cases, it fails. mass effect 3 is a good example, how not to do it.

the tone of the game maybe perfect - but it did not fit to the series. if you publish a series, all parts have to stick to the same style of telling the stories. this helps to convey a coherent feeling.

[Iakus]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

this game is not challenging ... neither interlectually nor gameplay-wise. it is full of clishés and kitsch. (thats ok btw.)

making a series darker and edgier (in order to make it look more "adult"), is a common trope. in apr. 95% of the cases, it fails. mass effect 3 is a good example, how not to do it.

the tone of the game maybe perfect - but it did not fit to the series. if you publish a series, all parts have to stick to the same style of telling the stories. this helps to convey a coherent feeling.

As a matter of fact, it is a trope.  And it fits very well into it.   

Darker and Edgier

[chidingewe8036]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Dhoozy77, I think you're under the misapprehension that the "fans" are a cohesive entity that all want exactly the same thing. Even if they all wanted a "happy ending," there would be more than a little disagreement on just what that meant, just as the current endings can be (and has been) interpreted many different ways.

You can see evidence of this by looking at the responses in this very thread. Not everyone agrees all the time. And at this point, even if BioWare were to do what they already said they wouldn't, some groups would be incensed that some other group got what they wanted, leaving other groups disappointed.

I am sure anything ending related everyone and anyone will purchase if not just out of pure curiosity so people who are supposedly "happy with the current endings" are irrelevant they will buy it because its ending related and the ending debacle is the popular topic and also the fact that it is Mass Effect. So your this crowd that crowd statement is false and really means nothing at this point in the game, to little to late to play the "we care we don't want to alienate" card. Just implement the happy ending, role in the money, and focus all attention and efforts on ME4. Simple Solution.

[chidingewe8036]

dynakill wrote...

Just to add to the OP,

Bioware: Mass Effect 4 launch day is here!!!

Fans: Can't wait to play.. <Gets home, pops in game> Create new character!!!! WTF!!!! #@$@KFJFWKW!!!!
           NO GODA#M SHEPARD!!!! WTFFFF!!!!!

Bioware: Not this again! <smacks forehead>

Fans: ME4 Sucks!!

Bioware: ME5 Canceled,, **** the fans...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My short  final opinion of the game:

The whole game was a let-down.

Problems I faced:

Multiple choice ending.. What did I play ME1 & 2 for? Why did I make all these choices? Why did I replay them over and over to see all of the options? Why isn't there like 6 endings that are triggered by the choices you previously made? This was a huge let-down and I am depressed with the way it ended.. The EC was nice and all, but it still didn't fix the fact that all your choices are for nothing..

The Leviathan/Catalyst/Reaper back story is garbage. They should have left the mystery of the Reapers a mystery. Thats what was so interesting about Mass Effect. The Reapers, where they came from, what is there purpose, why do they destroy life, who created them? Those questions kept me interested. Now that they are all answered, I have no itch to scratch.

Shepards fate in every ending (before EC).

Seeing that all of the endings were the same except for a few palette swaps and  swapped out cut-scenes. (Lazy)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Should Bioware appease the fans?  No.  Why? Whats done is done. They wont be able to erase the depressing endings from my brain. They wont be able to fix 90% of the game. The fact that the Reapers story is completely blown open. Lets be done with it.

I love ME1 and 2, but 3 is what you get when you sell your soul to the devil (EA). EA doesn't care. They probably rushed Bioware to finish, just like they made them make it more action oriented and less RPGish to try and get the COD fans interested.

TBH, I think Im done with the series all together. It was really awesome playing part 1. Part 2 was an improvement in some areas but kind of lacked in others. Part 3,, I don't even want to consider it being part of the series. Too many things wrong with it. So many that I need a whole other thread to write all that info.

Thanks EA you officially crapped on my fav series.

ME4... No Thanks.

There are a lot of things I left out, I'm not even going to bother.

Amen Amen Amen Amen let me hear the church say Amen they did not just crap on our series they took a big Krogan dump on it.

[chidingewe8036]

chidingewe8036 wrote...

dynakill wrote...

Just to add to the OP,

Bioware: Mass Effect 4 launch day is here!!!

Fans: Can't wait to play.. <Gets home, pops in game> Create new character!!!! WTF!!!! #@$@KFJFWKW!!!!
           NO GODA#M SHEPARD!!!! WTFFFF!!!!!

Bioware: Not this again! <smacks forehead>

Fans: ME4 Sucks!!

Bioware: ME5 Canceled,, **** the fans...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My short  final opinion of the game:

The whole game was a let-down.

Problems I faced:

Multiple choice ending.. What did I play ME1 & 2 for? Why did I make all these choices? Why did I replay them over and over to see all of the options? Why isn't there like 6 endings that are triggered by the choices you previously made? This was a huge let-down and I am depressed with the way it ended.. The EC was nice and all, but it still didn't fix the fact that all your choices are for nothing..

The Leviathan/Catalyst/Reaper back story is garbage. They should have left the mystery of the Reapers a mystery. Thats what was so interesting about Mass Effect. The Reapers, where they came from, what is there purpose, why do they destroy life, who created them? Those questions kept me interested. Now that they are all answered, I have no itch to scratch.

Shepards fate in every ending (before EC).

Seeing that all of the endings were the same except for a few palette swaps and  swapped out cut-scenes. (Lazy)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Should Bioware appease the fans?  No.  Why? Whats done is done. They wont be able to erase the depressing endings from my brain. They wont be able to fix 90% of the game. The fact that the Reapers story is completely blown open. Lets be done with it.

I love ME1 and 2, but 3 is what you get when you sell your soul to the devil (EA). EA doesn't care. They probably rushed Bioware to finish, just like they made them make it more action oriented and less RPGish to try and get the COD fans interested.

TBH, I think Im done with the series all together. It was really awesome playing part 1. Part 2 was an improvement in some areas but kind of lacked in others. Part 3,, I don't even want to consider it being part of the series. Too many things wrong with it. So many that I need a whole other thread to write all that info.

Thanks EA you officially crapped on my fav series.

ME4... No Thanks.

There are a lot of things I left out, I'm not even going to bother.

Amen Amen Amen Amen let me hear the church say Amen they did not just crap on our series they took a big Krogan dump on it.

no wait no wait I got a better one................. a big DINOSAUR DUMP ahahhahahhhahha oh gosh fun times