176 réponses à ce sujet

[N7Infernox]

Ghost1017 wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

OP, fans want all kinds of things. It's never as simple as "giving the fans what they want."

Especially BioWare fans.Out of all the forums I go to..BioWare fans seem to be the most difficult to satisfy because everyone wants something different whether its more content for a character like Miranda, a new mission on Palaven or a new ending.

It could always be worse. Have you ever been to the Flood on bungie.net?

I have been there. The users are quite interesting to say the least......

That place used to be one of  the funniest message boards on the internet.

[dynakill]

N7Infernox wrote...
and posting biased questions as an OP like that will probably wind up counterproductive to achieving your (implied) goal.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to pretend I'm the OP.  I wasn't.  Anyway, I could care less if Bioware decides to redo the ending or not. I hadn't played ME3 or the DLC till a couple days ago. I wasn't impressed. I love Mass Effect and the ME universe. It was great exploring different solar systems and planets on ME1. The Prothean mythology and the Reapers mystery really sparked an interest for me. Now that all of the mystery is not a mystery anymore, I feel that the story has lost it's appeal. ME4 Prothean prequel? Would be cool but we already know what happened to the Protheans. So what is left to tell?

I'm not a ME hater either. I've been following this game since it was announced in 2006, pre ordered the first and second one, plus bought all the DLC missions. Unfortunately I couldn't buy the 3rd one until a couple of weeks ago (life got in the way). I also just bought the ME tirilogy for PC (going to buy the DLC for that too).

I loved the series except for 3. Just because I don't like 3 doesn't mean I hate Mass Effect, just means I don't like 3.

Sorry if anyone is butthurt because of my opinion. I'm not mad because some people love ME3.

[N7Infernox]

dynakill wrote...

N7Infernox wrote...
and posting biased questions as an OP like that will probably wind up counterproductive to achieving your (implied) goal.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to pretend I'm the OP.  I wasn't.  Anyway...

I do not think that.
In fact, I share a lot of the same feelings you do about Mass Effect. My issue was with the way OP presented his/ her 'case'.

Modifié par N7Infernox, 25 janvier 2013 - 02:51 .

[Solmanian]

Hmm, all I can think is what will happen when ME4 comes out. There's just no way to deal with ME3's endings (which I'm personaly fine with), that won't make the fans go berserk. Even if they find a way to include imported savegames with changes in the game to reflect the ending you chose, the "fans" will still start a flame war. My advice to bioware: whatever you do, don't call the game ME4 if you aren't going to include imported saves. Give it a name that reflects the fact that it's a new trilogy(?); it doesn't even have to have "mass effect" in the name (activision keeps confusing me with modern warfare and black ops; they're both call of duty games, but they aren't connected in any way. what aggrevating is that they release them on an alternating basis...)

[force_echo]

I don't usually get mad, but people hating the ending because it doesn't have a "happy ending" amake no sense to me. If you let the lack of a goddamn happy ending cloud over 90+ hours of some of the best sci-fi in recent memory, please go away. Please never play another Bioware game again, please never play another sci-fi game again. The industry doesn't need to listen to entitled...

Modifié par force_echo, 25 janvier 2013 - 04:00 .

[force_echo]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

RuthlessGravity wrote...

When did creating games for a passion become diluted by fans as it was some fast food resturant to satisfy every need?

When we put 200+ dollors into a farnchise just to get bad writing and a "bittersweet" ending. The "bittersweet" ending i can handle its the bad writing I can't handle. Sorry the troll logic of "We kill organics before they can make synthetics to prevent the synthetics from taking over and killing all organics"

In which case they where able to make a synthetic/organic hybrid race of millions with the same idea of "killing organics to save organics from synthetics" and they where fine with that logic?? Sounds to me like in reality, a AI got a hair brain idea of how to create peace by killing everyone.

This also pisses me off. Bioware isn't responsible for fans too stupid enough to get something relatively straightforward. The Reapers, observing cycles where there is an inherent disconnect between AI and organics that cause the two to go to war and kill eachother, logically try to preserve the genetic material of all races, so they would be "immortal" instead of wasted to a "pre-determined" annihilation. It's supposed to illustrate the main seperating key between increasingly intelligent A.I, and organics. Emotional investment is overridden by logical fact, it's a fallacy, Leviathan mentioned that itself. It's not that f*cking hard.

When Halo did the exact same thing, how come noone complained then? How come noone said "Lololol, save the galaxy from flood by killing everyone in the galaxy". Maybe because people were smarter back then.

[AlanC9]

N7-RedFox wrote...

I've seen too many posts and threads by many many fans to even question their wants for a Happy/LI ending. If you want proof just check out some of the Polls which are ending-orientated. The numbers speak for themselves.

But here's the thing, Bioware doesn't have to change the other endings. A happy ending is merely an OPTION. Which means we could easily have a small scene after Shepard's breath scene of him/her being rescued etc.

OR

We could choose Control/Synthesis. Is that so bad? Is that so difficult? An option is an option, you can take it or leave it. But just think about how many disgruntled fans would suddenly become happy fans if the happy ending OPTION was there to take.

So when you're talking about a happier ending,, all you're talking about is Bio making explicit the stuff that's obviously going to happen in the high-EMS Destroy ending? Just want to make sure I'm following the argument.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 janvier 2013 - 03:56 .

[JoltDealer]

First off, I would like to compliment the OP for perfectly encapsulating the sentiments of many of the fans I have seen on this forum.  The tenacity I've seen and continue to see is downright incredible.  I shudder at the thought of what these men and women could accomplish should they focus their efforts towards other things.

That being said, I disagree with you.  Maintaining artistic integrity is essential and a lot of fans need to realize this.  It's comparable to when you're a parent and someone else begins telling you how you should raise your child.  Even if he or she has a point, at the end of the day, it's your baby.  In fact, if you were to tell that person to "screw off," no one would blame you.  At the end of the day, Mass Effect is Bioware's baby that they spent countless hours a day for several years creating, shaping, and raising it into the magnificent star child that it is.  Maybe the ending of Mass Effect 3 wasn't all we hoped it would be, but this was an ending that they created and worked on for god knows how long.  So when fans reacted the way they did (myself included), I half expected Bioware to kindly tell us to go screw off.  Instead, they didn't.  They realized their mistake and tried to do something that would satisfy both our need for more closure and their need for artistic integrity.  I thought that was a great move on their part, an excellent compromise.  Except, there was still a very vocal group who were still just as revolted and offended by the ending, treating the Extended Cut as no more than a cruel joke.  So why won't they bend over and give us what we want?  It's ultimately their call because it's their game.  Period.

But that doesn't answer the question of your thread.  "What is wrong with Bioware giving the fans what they want?"  Really, it's the principle of the thing.  When you work on something that intensely for that long, it begins to feel like yours and, for all intents and purposes, it is.  It's your intellectual and artistic property.  The more you change it according to what others want, the less it feels like it is truly yours. 

I apologize if I was unclear in this post or failed to explain something to your satisfaction.

[FlamingBoy]

Ghost1017 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

OP, fans want all kinds of things. It's never as simple as "giving the fans what they want."

Especially BioWare fans.Out of all the forums I go to..BioWare fans seem to be the most difficult to satisfy because everyone wants something different whether its more content for a character like Miranda, a new mission on Palaven or a new ending.

which high end rpg forum, would you consider not "difficult to satisfy"

these claims that bsn and bioware fans are somehow the worst of bunch are becoming greatly exaggerated

1. Did you read my whole post?
2. I never said BioWare fans are the worst of the bunch.

you said especially (you infact highlighted it), which means and/or implies that the bioware fans have a special quality that makes them worse than others hence my choice of words.

the question still stands

[FlamingBoy]

force_echo wrote...

I don't usually get mad, but people hating the ending because it doesn't have a "happy ending" amake no sense to me. If you let the lack of a goddamn happy ending cloud over 90+ hours of some of the best sci-fi in recent memory, please go away. Please never play another Bioware game again, please never play another sci-fi game again. The industry doesn't need to listen to entitled...

the first sentece interest me

you say you don't normally get mad but you draw the line at people who hate an ending and what a happy one.
After which you rant a slight bit well I just got to point out that is one short line you drawing mate wouldn't make the 5 meter mark in a soccer pitch

"entitled" hate that word, seen it twice on this thread, both times the word has no applied

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 25 janvier 2013 - 04:39 .

[dynakill]

We need to leave Bioware alone. Hopefully the series will be pushed 1000s years into the future. If the races of the Milky Way can find a way to branch out to the Andromeda Galaxy and beyond to find new races and cultures it could really get interesting especially with new galactic exploration and deeper mysteries that are far older than the Leviathan and Reapers. New theories, like the creators of the universe and purpose of life itself. Now that can just blow peoples minds. I think Bioware can certainly pull off some amazing stuff for next gen. They just need a lot of time and no pressure from EA to finish anytime soon. Bring back the planetary exploration rather than the boring planet scanning. Finding artifacts with clues to our creators. Exploring caves or even ancient structures built by unknow extinct races. Like the stories of finding Prothean artifacts on mars (just not Prothean this time).

They can begin the series at mans first intergalactic mission. Once in the new galaxy it can be like the first contact war or even worse. Maybe we open a portal to a super evil race of alien species that make the reapers look like care bears.

We just need to get off the milky way.

They just need the original trilogy to be left alone and be part of ancient history.

Modifié par dynakill, 25 janvier 2013 - 05:34 .

[Mars8309]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Not everyone wants a new ending. Some of us are fine with Shepard dying. Shep dying does not mean the ending was bad. The whole Starchild thing is what made the ending bad.

The starchild, space magic, plot holes from ME1 and ME2. That where the disappointment tied in.

With Omega released a chance for that 2nd hub to appear...not a chance.

[tracesaint]

I'm fine with the endings. I don't love them, but I don't hate them. Maybe one or two more uses with the Crucible would have been interesting. I have no idea what they would be. Turn the Reapers into giant staplers? Create a supermassive black hole that consumes Sol? Doesn't matter.

[MattFini]

someone else wrote...

nonsense.   the current ending choices - starbrat included - can remain - either as literal truth or allegory - however you choose to view them  - and satisfy the artsy intelligencia aesthetes out there.  Control and Synthesis represent outcomes that go beyond the scope of a single individual experience - they represents a discontinuous jump to a new level of consciousness/being that must be left to imagination - intellectually interesting maybe but emotionally barren - and that is the key to why the ending does not satisfy a very large portion of your fan base.

Bioware failed to provide an ending that made narrative and emotional sense in human terms - whether that involves a properly mourning crew and LI's (median EMS) or (high EMS) a reunion.  I guarantee that had BW provided an ending that resolved Shepard's story within the parameters of the human condition, you would have seen a much different reaction - check out the responses on the MEHEM thread if you doubt it... 

Well said. This is, I believe, the fundamental reason why the endings suck.

They're emotionally vacant and leave lots of people cold.

very surprising, coming from BioWare.

[dynakill]

tracesaint wrote...

I'm fine with the endings. I don't love them, but I don't hate them. Maybe one or two more uses with the Crucible would have been interesting. I have no idea what they would be. Turn the Reapers into giant staplers? Create a supermassive black hole that consumes Sol? Doesn't matter.

Your choices in ME1, 2, and 3 should have determined the ending not some gameshow style, "choose door number 1, 2 or 3". For those who played from the begining (ME1) and thought long and hard about all of thier choices, this is kind of  a slap in the face and a kick in the balls. It didn't matter if I was renegade or if I killed Wrex, let Kaiden die or saved my entire squad on the Collectors ship. The final outcome of the game was a multiple choice question. Thats what got me, but it's over. Lets just hope the next ME series will be as intriguing as the first game.

[Xellith]

J. Reezy wrote...

ME2 happens when you give the fans what they want.

Yeah! So give the fans what they want!

[dreamgazer]

J. Reezy wrote...

ME2 happens when you give the fans what they want.

Hey, I just wanted to continue on with what Vigil was yammering about on Ilos.

[Cutlass Jack]

J. Reezy wrote...

ME2 happens when you give the fans what they want.

Did someone out there actually request Giant Reaper Baby?

[dreamgazer]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

ME2 happens when you give the fans what they want.

Did someone out there actually request Giant Reaper Baby?

Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[GimmeDaGun]

someone else wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Dhoozy77, I think you're under the misapprehension that the "fans" are a cohesive entity that all want exactly the same thing. Even if they all wanted a "happy ending," there would be more than a little disagreement on just what that meant, just as the current endings can be (and has been) interpreted many different ways.

You can see evidence of this by looking at the responses in this very thread. Not everyone agrees all the time. And at this point, even if BioWare were to do what they already said they wouldn't, some groups would be incensed that some other group got what they wanted, leaving other groups disappointed.

nonsense.   the current ending choices - starbrat included - can remain - either as literal truth or allegory - however you choose to view them  - and satisfy the artsy intelligencia aesthetes out there.  Control and Synthesis represent outcomes that go beyond the scope of a single individual experience - they represents a discontinuous jump to a new level of consciousness/being that must be left to imagination - intellectually interesting maybe but emotionally barren - and that is the key to why the ending does not satisfy a very large portion of your fan base.

Bioware failed to provide an ending that made narrative and emotional sense in human terms - whether that involves a properly mourning crew and LI's (median EMS) or (high EMS) a reunion.  I guarantee that had BW provided an ending that resolved Shepard's story within the parameters of the human condition, you would have seen a much different reaction - check out the responses on the MEHEM thread if you doubt it... 

Now this is the greatest piece of BS I've read so far on the BSN. Thanks, made my day... If you call self-sacrafice for the good of others a void of emotion, then have it your way. And all 4 ending have lots of different emotions in them (post-EC). It is not all happy, but of course it is not: the ME-trilogy is not a happy heroic flick, it's quite noir from the beginning to the end (except for ME2's "love boat" stupidity).

Oh and speak for yourself pal! Many dislike MEHEM, and not all of them are ending lovers or apologists. The lack of creativity in that convectional, pew-pew type of victory and hugging it all up with the LI in the end is absurd. This is a dark sci-fi (unfortunately ME2's soap operaish tendecies had a huge effect on people, but it is not a romantic flick + there are plenty of emotional character moments throughout ME3). 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 25 janvier 2013 - 06:20 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

And is it that the bulk of these character driven stories center around daddy issues?

Modifié par ReconTeam, 25 janvier 2013 - 06:16 .

[GimmeDaGun]

J. Reezy wrote...

ME2 happens when you give the fans what they want.

Daddy issues, love boat feeling with a very short and silly, filler story... hmmmm... yeah, fans.