2819 réponses à ce sujet

[boredgunner]

Han Shot First wrote...

Bioware and CD Project Red both have strengths and weaknesses, IMO.

Bioware is much better with character interaction. Geralt's companions always feel less fleshed out than your Dragon Age or Mass Effect companions. You interact with your companions less in the Witcher and when you do the conversation most tends to be on the state of the world or the mission at hand. By the end of one of Bioware's RPGs you usually feel like you know your companions better than you do in the Witcher.

On the other hand CD Project Red is much better at crafting political intrigue, more complex antagonists who aren't just mustache-twirling evil (Loghain was an exception for Bioware), and choices that have real consequences in the game world.

I agree for the most part.  CDPR crafts much more complex stories, Bioware does a much better job with character development.  Characters in The Witcher games (especially the second) hardly react to what you say to them.  They don't have the "influence" system present in Bioware or Obsidian games.   There's just so much more companion dialogue and interaction in DA:O and Mass Effect, which also helps put weight on the decisions you have to make in those games.

Bioware also does a better job making choices matter more, contrary to what you said.  DA:O has more story variation than perhaps any other game, and even the ME franchise can have so many big and small changes depending on what you do.  The ending of ME3 is an exception of course, but aside from this, there are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.  Also, importing a TW1 save makes only a few miniscule changes.

CDPR looks to minimize RPG gameplay; The Witcher 2 is basically an action game and nothing more.  One class, one playstyle, essentially you use the same few attacks throughout the entire game.  I suppose this makes them better for RPG newcomers, who may be overwhelmed by the gameplay seen in DA:O or NWN.

Modifié par boredgunner, 29 janvier 2014 - 07:13 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

boredgunner wrote...

Bioware also does a better job making choices matter more, contrary to what you said.  DA:O has more story variation than perhaps any other game, and even the ME franchise can have so many big and small changes depending on what you do.  The ending of ME3 is an exception of course, but aside from this, there are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.  Also, importing a TW1 save makes only a few miniscule changes.

CDPR looks to minimize RPG gameplay; The Witcher 2 is basically an action game and nothing more.  One class, one playstyle, essentially you use the same few attacks throughout the entire game.  I suppose this makes them better for RPG newcomers, who may be overwhelmed by the gameplay seen in DA:O or NWN.

Maybe they did back then with DA:O but right now they do not. Claiming that ME gives "real" consequences is a stretch. Not once did anything important that you ever did in those games change anything. Side with Cerberus and give them, the Collector base, doesn't matter, they're still the enemy. Save the council, no point, they won't help you anyway, and you'll be forced to work with Cerberus. Give Anderson the council position, doesn't matter either, he'll just quit because he was "bored". None of the choices in the ME games mattered at all, the most you'd get is some extra dialogue, some minor character appearance or some other nonsense.

Sure TW1's save import doesn't really change anything but then again CDPR never said it would do anything serious. On the other hand who you choose in Act 1 in TW2 whether it is Roche or Iorveth gives you acess to two different ways in which Act II and Act III can take place, with each one having different characters and quests. Name a recent BioWare game that did that, the only one I can remember is DA:O and only with Fort Drakon which wasn't all that big in the story anyway.

The choices in the Witcher games are also more grey than anything I've seen in BioWare games, take the Order and the Scoia'Tael, do you side with the Order who persecutes elves and dwarves but still has a great example of virtue through Siegfried or do you side with the Scoia'Tael whose cause is just but their leader isn't so good. There's also choices like letting Henselt live or letting Roche kill him, which was one of the most difficult choices IMO, do you let a rapist, mass murderer live because he's king and also one of the only people who can fight Nilfgaard or do you have him punished? DA:O rarely put anything as complex in their decisions, maybe Loghain but that's it, nothing more. 

The assertion that CDPR wishes to limit RPG gameplay is ridiculous, and BioWare is far from being the example to follow in that category. If you ask me I had more RPG gameplay in the Witcher games than any of BioWare's recent games. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 29 janvier 2014 - 07:38 .

[Luxorek]

fchopin wrote...

Yep I love TW1, the best atmosphere from any game I played.

Same here, the constant dissing of the first game actually motivated me to make a video about it. "Why You Should Play The Witcher One". Just a little shameless self-promotion:P

Modifié par Luxorek, 29 janvier 2014 - 07:54 .

[slimgrin]

boredgunner wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Bioware and CD Project Red both have strengths and weaknesses, IMO.

Bioware is much better with character interaction. Geralt's companions always feel less fleshed out than your Dragon Age or Mass Effect companions. You interact with your companions less in the Witcher and when you do the conversation most tends to be on the state of the world or the mission at hand. By the end of one of Bioware's RPGs you usually feel like you know your companions better than you do in the Witcher.

On the other hand CD Project Red is much better at crafting political intrigue, more complex antagonists who aren't just mustache-twirling evil (Loghain was an exception for Bioware), and choices that have real consequences in the game world.

I agree for the most part.  CDPR crafts much more complex stories, Bioware does a much better job with character development.  Characters in The Witcher games (especially the second) hardly react to what you say to them.  They don't have the "influence" system present in Bioware or Obsidian games.   There's just so much more companion dialogue and interaction in DA:O and Mass Effect, which also helps put weight on the decisions you have to make in those games.

Bioware also does a better job making choices matter more, contrary to what you said.  DA:O has more story variation than perhaps any other game, and even the ME franchise can have so many big and small changes depending on what you do.  The ending of ME3 is an exception of course, but aside from this, there are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.  Also, importing a TW1 save makes only a few miniscule changes.

CDPR looks to minimize RPG gameplay; The Witcher 2 is basically an action game and nothing more.  One class, one playstyle, essentially you use the same few attacks throughout the entire game.  I suppose this makes them better for RPG newcomers, who may be overwhelmed by the gameplay seen in DA:O or NWN.

So...you work for Bioware?

[Khayness]

boredgunner wrote...

Bioware also does a better job making choices matter more, contrary to what you said.  DA:O has more story variation than perhaps any other game, and even the ME franchise can have so many big and small changes depending on what you do.  The ending of ME3 is an exception of course, but aside from this, there are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.  Also, importing a TW1 save makes only a few miniscule changes.

Please tell me which was the last quest in a BioWare game you could actually fail.

[Billy-the-Squid]

boredgunner wrote...

Bioware also does a better job making choices matter more, contrary to what you said.  DA:O has more story variation than perhaps any other game, and even the ME franchise can have so many big and small changes depending on what you do.  The ending of ME3 is an exception of course, but aside from this, there are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.

CDPR looks to minimize RPG gameplay; The Witcher 2 is basically an action game and nothing more.  One class, one playstyle, essentially you use the same few attacks throughout the entire game.  I suppose this makes them better for RPG newcomers, who may be overwhelmed by the gameplay seen in DA:O or NWN.

Modifié par Tequila Cat, 30 janvier 2014 - 03:47 .

[Seboist]

Using Mass Effect as an example of choices mattering....... LMFAO.

DA:O is the only one of BW's recent games where choices are worth a damn.

[Farci Reprimer]

boredgunner wrote...

....are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.  Also, importing a TW1 save makes only a few miniscule changes.

Yes, Bioware made SO GOOD JOB importing our decisions from DAO to DA2 for example. AND make them matter.

I do not think Witcher 1 import with all the nice gear and mentions of Adda, Yeavinn and possible cameo of Siegfried in witcher 2 is falling too much short from what bioware does...

Modifié par FarciReprimer, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:33 .

[Farci Reprimer]

hups, douple post

Modifié par FarciReprimer, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:33 .

[jaza]

boredgunner wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Bioware and CD Project Red both have strengths and weaknesses, IMO.

Bioware is much better with character interaction. Geralt's companions always feel less fleshed out than your Dragon Age or Mass Effect companions. You interact with your companions less in the Witcher and when you do the conversation most tends to be on the state of the world or the mission at hand. By the end of one of Bioware's RPGs you usually feel like you know your companions better than you do in the Witcher.

On the other hand CD Project Red is much better at crafting political intrigue, more complex antagonists who aren't just mustache-twirling evil (Loghain was an exception for Bioware), and choices that have real consequences in the game world.

I agree for the most part.  CDPR crafts much more complex stories, Bioware does a much better job with character development.  Characters in The Witcher games (especially the second) hardly react to what you say to them.  They don't have the "influence" system present in Bioware or Obsidian games.   There's just so much more companion dialogue and interaction in DA:O and Mass Effect, which also helps put weight on the decisions you have to make in those games.

Bioware also does a better job making choices matter more, contrary to what you said.  DA:O has more story variation than perhaps any other game, and even the ME franchise can have so many big and small changes depending on what you do.  The ending of ME3 is an exception of course, but aside from this, there are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.  Also, importing a TW1 save makes only a few miniscule changes.

CDPR looks to minimize RPG gameplay; The Witcher 2 is basically an action game and nothing more.  One class, one playstyle, essentially you use the same few attacks throughout the entire game.  I suppose this makes them better for RPG newcomers, who may be overwhelmed by the gameplay seen in DA:O or NWN.

Modifié par jaza, 30 janvier 2014 - 01:26 .

[slimgrin]

EntropicAngel wrote...

You know, I resisted commenting on Han Shot First's original comment because I saw no reason to devolve this into a p*ssing match.

Great going, folks.

You've always wanted it to be a pissing contest...so here goes: CDPR is like Bioware with the condom off. Bioware is like Mary ****in Poppins at this point. And you, by way of fanboyism, expect me to think like a pre-teen so I can relate to the drivel Gaider is dreaming up. That's what Bioware specializes in, pre-teen power fantasy trips.

Modifié par slimgrin, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:50 .

[Heimdall]

Why are people even comparing them? CDPR makes pseudo-action RPGs with, in the case of the Witcher, a highly predefined main character. Bioware makes party style RPGs with, by comparison at least, far less focus on hair trigger reaction times and more Roleplaying options.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why are people even comparing them? CDPR makes pseudo-action RPGs with, in the case of the Witcher, a highly predefined main character. Bioware makes party style RPGs with, by comparison at least, far less focus on hair trigger reaction times and more Roleplaying options.

They're still RPGs and if you ask me that is enough to compare. They're not 100% asymmetrical either. I don't know that Geralt is so predefined though, you can choose how he does things and for which reasons he does them. For example you can play TW1 as completely neutral or choose to side with the Order or the Scoia'Tael, therefore choosing Geralt's principles in a way, relating to the non-human cause or relating to the principles of the Order. 

Same goes for TW2, you can choose to give a damn about Foltest and Temeria, there's even dialogue for it. I don't know if Geralt is exactly predefined with those sorts of choices. Does he have a unique personality, maybe, but in the end you choose what Geralt believes in. 

[slimgrin]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why are people even comparing them? CDPR makes pseudo-action RPGs with, in the case of the Witcher, a highly predefined main character. Bioware makes party style RPGs with, by comparison at least, far less focus on hair trigger reaction times and more Roleplaying options.

 I needed this, to remind me why I should never bother posting here. In real RPG land.

[Dutchess]

Oh, this debate again, is it? I'd say it's very fair to compare Bioware and CDPR, considering how much their games rely on story, and the similarity of the settings (fantasy in Medieval time period, down-trodden elves, powerful mages, dragons). With how many people you're running around and fighting and whether you can choose your eye color are pretty minor details when you want to justify that no comparisons can be made.

I don't think Geralt is as pre-defined as many people argue. Splinter Cell already explained a lot of it, and I'm just going to add that I felt that the choices you make in TW1's Identity quest are actually more meaningful than DAO's opportunities for explicitly defining your character. Bioware's choices mostly boiled down to "am I nice, am I greedy or am I a jerk?". You can mentally add more background and motivations, but the game let's you express little of that, whereas TW1 asks you why you are hunting Salamandra (is it personal, ideological, or both?), why you chose to support the Scoia'tael/the Order/remain neutral. Because TW2 focused on Geralt regaining his memory rather than inventing his identity, that game had less of those deeper, even philosophical moments, but it still bothers to aks you why you chose the way you did when it comes to major decisions. DAO doesn't ask why you chose Behlen/Harrowmont, or even why you're fighting the Blight. You kinda have to, that's why.

There's still more variety in the kind of character you can create in DAO, of course (not so much in DA2. I found the 3 personality types rather limiting), but when it comes to the meaning of choices and the complexity of them and the story, CDPR is my winner.

[The Heretic of Time]

Tequila Cat wrote...

boredgunner wrote...

Bioware also does a better job making choices matter more, contrary to what you said.  DA:O has more story variation than perhaps any other game, and even the ME franchise can have so many big and small changes depending on what you do.  The ending of ME3 is an exception of course, but aside from this, there are far more "real" consequences in these Bioware games opposed to The Witcher games, since the plot and characters are much more reactive to player interaction.

CDPR looks to minimize RPG gameplay; The Witcher 2 is basically an action game and nothing more.  One class, one playstyle, essentially you use the same few attacks throughout the entire game.  I suppose this makes them better for RPG newcomers, who may be overwhelmed by the gameplay seen in DA:O or NWN.

I was gonna write a reply to this Boredgunner's post, but I see Tequila Cat already summed up my thoughts and feelings quite nicely.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 31 janvier 2014 - 10:01 .

[spirosz]

slimgrin wrote...
You've always wanted it to be a pissing contest...so here goes: CDPR is like Bioware with the condom off. Bioware is like Mary ****in Poppins at this point. And you, by way of fanboyism, expect me to think like a pre-teen so I can relate to the drivel Gaider is dreaming up. That's what Bioware specializes in, pre-teen power fantasy trips.

I laugh at the irony of these posts so much.  

And basically this - 

EntropicAngel wrote...

You know, I resisted commenting on Han Shot First's original comment because I saw no reason to devolve this into a p*ssing match.

Great going, folks.

[HiroVoid]

Guys, guys. It's not a match because CDPR's already won.

[Billy-the-Squid]

EntropicAngel wrote...

You know, I resisted commenting on Han Shot First's original comment because I saw no reason to devolve this into a p*ssing match.

Great going, folks.

[slimgrin]

spirosz wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
You've always wanted it to be a pissing contest...so here goes: CDPR is like Bioware with the condom off. Bioware is like Mary ****in Poppins at this point. And you, by way of fanboyism, expect me to think like a pre-teen so I can relate to the drivel Gaider is dreaming up. That's what Bioware specializes in, pre-teen power fantasy trips.

I laugh at the irony of these posts so much.  

And basically this - 

EntropicAngel wrote...

You know, I resisted commenting on Han Shot First's original comment because I saw no reason to devolve this into a p*ssing match.

Great going, folks.

That was actually a poorly worded joke on my part, playing the rabid fanboy. Wasn't meant to be taken seriously, sorry to Entropic if he did.

Modifié par slimgrin, 01 février 2014 - 07:06 .

[Texhnolyze101]

Are there any female witchers?

[slimgrin]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Are there any female witchers?

One. And she'll be a central character in the game. She's basically Geralt's adopted daughter and a powerful magic user. The most powerful person in the lore, I think. But she's not a mutant because she wasn't subjected to the trial.

Modifié par slimgrin, 01 février 2014 - 07:10 .