286 réponses à ce sujet

[landylan]

Original Stikman wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

^ Skill is less rewarded in terms of, being a better shot, knowing the mechanics better etc. helps less on Plat than it does on Gold. Since bosses are usually slow and easy to hit.

That.

Platinum IS a DPS fest. Sure, you can do it completely different and compensate your Avenger's laughable DPS with skill (read, not dying before they do, yes ... very skillfully!), or maybe Asari Evasion melee everything to death.


But it isn't required at all. You can do all the stuff you can imagine with raw skill ... or you can just slap on a Piranha and DPS your way to easy victory.

Its plainly not a good or valid argument as you can do the exact same thing for gold.

You are not even trying to understand our point. Do I need to talk to you as if you were speaking another language?

DPS is the most defining part on how to beat Platinum unless you want to spend hours kiting. That is a fact. You can NOT clear a Platinum match in the same time with an Avenger than with a Harrier by compensating with skill. It is flat out NOT possible!

Anyone who says otherwise has either not played Platinum ever before or is delibaretely trolling. And I am done with this argument.

Your last two statements makes me feel as though you don't have a lot of experience with argumentation/debate.

You are right. You cannot clear a platinum match in the same with an avenger than a harrier.... you also cannot clear a gold match with an avenger faster than you can with a harrier.... 

I got your point, and I get it because it isn't valid.

We say: Platinum is about DPS if not for anything else.

You say, DPS is important everywhere.

Ranting?

Yes, you summed up the "claims," yet missed the grounds supporting the claim. That is key in argument. The grounds for your specific claim was that a low-dps weapon won't do as well on platinum than a high-dps weapon would.

I don't have to prove that Platinum is NOT about DPS, all i have to do is prove that your grounds don't support your claim to bunk your Claim (which is the product of your argument). If I prove that your grounds are invalid, then you have no claim as it doesn't stand on anything but a stated opinion. (Edit: This is called a "warrant")

A lesson in argument.

Again, your grounds:a low-dps weapon/kit won't do as well on platinum than a high-dps weapon/kit would.

How to debunk your grounds? state: "the same goes for any other difficulty, therefore your claim that "Platinum IS dps is proved to not bear weight soley on platinum."

This is a response to your specific grounds, not necessarily Feneckus' or Sirian's. So using "our" argument, is a bit manipulative and I won't say that my debunking of your grounds debunks theirs.

Instead of proving that something is not true, you are going to "debunk" it? Your debunking statement is false. DPS is not as important on other difficulties. Powers are more effective and accuracy of weapons is actually useful for headshots.

You're basically just saying,"NO, you need moar dps is everywhere. Yeah, so you're wrong. I win." 

A lesson in argument.

[Original Twigman]

Feneckus wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Example. Firebase Rio Platinum with Box of shame. If 3 players just sit in the box and wait to exploit the enemy by simply shooting from safety, will they outscore a player who can manage platinum on his own with a high-dps kit?

That's a rather extreme example. A useless teammate will always be useless, no matter the difficulty/kit/equipment.

right. its extreme, similar to that of "Human engineer falcon outscouring GI armored compartmetns"

[thearbiter1337]

No.

Anyone can just nuke spawns to get the high score

[Original Twigman]

landylan wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

^ Skill is less rewarded in terms of, being a better shot, knowing the mechanics better etc. helps less on Plat than it does on Gold. Since bosses are usually slow and easy to hit.

That.

Platinum IS a DPS fest. Sure, you can do it completely different and compensate your Avenger's laughable DPS with skill (read, not dying before they do, yes ... very skillfully!), or maybe Asari Evasion melee everything to death.


But it isn't required at all. You can do all the stuff you can imagine with raw skill ... or you can just slap on a Piranha and DPS your way to easy victory.

Its plainly not a good or valid argument as you can do the exact same thing for gold.

You are not even trying to understand our point. Do I need to talk to you as if you were speaking another language?

DPS is the most defining part on how to beat Platinum unless you want to spend hours kiting. That is a fact. You can NOT clear a Platinum match in the same time with an Avenger than with a Harrier by compensating with skill. It is flat out NOT possible!

Anyone who says otherwise has either not played Platinum ever before or is delibaretely trolling. And I am done with this argument.

Your last two statements makes me feel as though you don't have a lot of experience with argumentation/debate.

You are right. You cannot clear a platinum match in the same with an avenger than a harrier.... you also cannot clear a gold match with an avenger faster than you can with a harrier.... 

I got your point, and I get it because it isn't valid.

We say: Platinum is about DPS if not for anything else.

You say, DPS is important everywhere.

Ranting?

Yes, you summed up the "claims," yet missed the grounds supporting the claim. That is key in argument. The grounds for your specific claim was that a low-dps weapon won't do as well on platinum than a high-dps weapon would.

I don't have to prove that Platinum is NOT about DPS, all i have to do is prove that your grounds don't support your claim to bunk your Claim (which is the product of your argument). If I prove that your grounds are invalid, then you have no claim as it doesn't stand on anything but a stated opinion. (Edit: This is called a "warrant")

A lesson in argument.

Again, your grounds:a low-dps weapon/kit won't do as well on platinum than a high-dps weapon/kit would.

How to debunk your grounds? state: "the same goes for any other difficulty, therefore your claim that "Platinum IS dps is proved to not bear weight soley on platinum."

This is a response to your specific grounds, not necessarily Feneckus' or Sirian's. So using "our" argument, is a bit manipulative and I won't say that my debunking of your grounds debunks theirs.

Instead of proving that something is not true, you are going to "debunk" it? Your debunking statement is false. DPS is not as important on other difficulties. Powers are more effective and accuracy of weapons is actually useful for headshots.

You're basically just saying,"NO, you need moar dps is everywhere. Yeah, so you're wrong. I win." 

A lesson in argument.

no, that isn't what i said. i stated my point in clear language, so you have misconstrued it quite a bit.

The status quo only needs to prove that the claim does not apply to the overall point. I am arguing on the status quo side.
I don't have to prove that the claim is not true, i have to prove that the claim has no grounds. to prove something is not true is the job of those who have the burden of proof.... thats how argument works

not sure why you felt the need to be condescending

Modifié par Original Stikman, 25 janvier 2013 - 03:36 .

[joseardzm]

low score does indicate bad player, specially when the difference between scores is so damn high

unless the player plays defensive....like a volus, at the end the score will sum up to what you think of the player.

Modifié par joseardzm, 25 janvier 2013 - 04:03 .

[Imperator_Prime]

Does a high score necessarily mean someone's a good player?

No. It could mean that they spent every wave snatching kills out from under their teammates and pointwhoring during objectives.

But can high score indicate a good player?

If you have a teammate who rezzed you almost every time you dropped (or provided cover to the teammate that they told to rez you because they were closer), who judiciously used their missiles to save you from sync kills, who activated every 4-point objective (or stood at your side guarding you while you activated them), who cleared a corridor of mooks so you could line up a sniper kill on a priority target, and who got a massive number of kills and assists and a score equal to the next 2 or 3 teammates combined, then that probably means they were pretty good, and you should observe their strategies and tactics to assimilate as much information as you can.

[kira28]

there is no doubt high score = good player unless your going down 3 times every wave and forcing your teammates to waste time reviving you. Alot of people including the poster above me mixing up good player with team player. You can do the objectives with your team and revive them if close but definitely dont camp and hold their hands the whole game.

lol at the guy above me talking about stealing kills.

[gabrien]

I think score plays a role in being a good player. But I think there are more important things like not messing up spawns, reviving team mates or clearing enemies so someone else can revive. Tagging or covering people tagging objectives. You have to be useful as well. Not just a point ****. Having said that... You want to at least have an average score or higher. After all, killing things is also helpful.

On the same token. I have Seen PLENTY of BAD high scoring players (especially in Plat but not always) who spawn kill bunches of enemies with rockets, having new ones spawn at objectives and such. And wait till enemies are mostly killed by everyone else till they start shooting, just for the kill points. And plenty times they run around the map killing stuff instead of completing objectives. It ruffles my feathers most in uploads and hacks.

If someone can get a high score and still be useful all round... THAT makes them good...

[121210Olivia]

Imperator_Prime wrote...

Does a high score necessarily mean someone's a good player?

No. It could mean that they spent every wave snatching kills out from under their teammates and pointwhoring during objectives.

But can high score indicate a good player?

If you have a teammate who rezzed you almost every time you dropped (or provided cover to the teammate that they told to rez you because they were closer), who judiciously used their missiles to save you from sync kills, who activated every 4-point objective (or stood at your side guarding you while you activated them), who cleared a corridor of mooks so you could line up a sniper kill on a priority target, and who got a massive number of kills and assists and a score equal to the next 2 or 3 teammates combined, then that probably means they were pretty good, and you should observe their strategies and tactics to assimilate as much information as you can.

Tend to agree with you (the latter description depicts the better player, imo).

[121210Olivia]

kira28 wrote...

there is no doubt high score = good player unless your going down 3 times every wave and forcing your teammates to waste time reviving you. Alot of people including the poster above me mixing up good player with team player. You can do the objectives with your team and revive them if close but definitely dont camp and hold their hands the whole game.

lol at the guy above me talking about stealing kills.

On the contrary, there is great doubt. Hence this thread.

[darkpassenger2342]

alot of people who are confident start games by themselves now and when you join they have 35k score and 3 guys
enter with 0.
would it surprise me if people post THOSE pics after extraction? not at all.
score is a measure, and its a flawed one, but it doesnt tell the whole story.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 25 janvier 2013 - 05:26 .

[121210Olivia]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

If someone scores 250k in a 4 player game I think it's safe to say that player is a good player.

Agree. The likelihood of this happening regularly, however, is another matter altogether.

[tagamaynila]

If that high scorer is the type that just goes for points instead of helping with objectives, no. I've seen players who just don't care about any objectives and treats every wave as a regular wave despite everyone else scrambling to get tasks done ASAP. Wouldn't have been so bad if they're good at drawing aggro but most of them are at one end of the map and don't even provide overwatch.

[121210Olivia]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

alot of people who are confident start games by themselves now and when you join they have 35k score and 3 guys
enter with 0.
would it surprise me if people post THOSE pics after extraction? not at all.
score is a measure, and its a flawed one, but it doesnt tell the whole story.

And that would be a terribly sad thing to do by an equally sad-minded person, possibly suffering from an inferiority complex.

[darkpassenger2342]

121210Olivia wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

alot of people who are confident start games by themselves now and when you join they have 35k score and 3 guys
enter with 0.
would it surprise me if people post THOSE pics after extraction? not at all.
score is a measure, and its a flawed one, but it doesnt tell the whole story.

And that would be a terribly sad thing to do by an equally sad-minded person, possibly suffering from an inferiority complex.

something the internet is not lacking in.

[dirtdiver32318]

I don't think score really matters does it? Is it not at the end all points added up to give everyone xp? I could be wrong so don't freak out and start callin noob loser whatever. Anyways does it really matter who scores highest when we all make it to extract? Yeah sure having highest points is nice you have a little bragging rights but really? It's not that bi of a deal. Personally what I define as a good player is someone who revives teammates cover other teammates when they are reviving others helps with objectives some way and uses consumables when necessary. Clutching rounds are always nice bonus as well.

[121210Olivia]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

121210Olivia wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

If someone scores 250k in a 4 player game I think it's safe to say that player is a good player.

Agree. The likelihood of this happening regularly, however, is another matter altogether.

 

Happens regularly when I play. :innocent:

I see. In all my time playing (2500+ games and counting) I've yet to, even once, witness this.

[Clips7]

I don't think it matters, because i have been in games where nobody was doing objectives except me and i was the one that ended up in 3rd place. Everybody thinks topping the scoreboard makes you an expert, but it really doesn't.

Depends on the circumstances. For that particular example, what kit equipment and playstyle you would have used is important.

50k points on Gold is perfectly manageable to virtue of being a passive/defenseive player being tossed with aggressive players. And whilst that would indicate the respective low scoring player couldn't adapt, hence loose out on points to the other players, being a consequent 50k points player in Gold does very much speak "carry me" as obviously the rest of the team is carrying the vast majority of the match.

The question would then be if the perpetrator actually inhibits team performance by screwing with the rest of the teams synergy or enemy spawns, or if he simply doesn't add to it. The latter is questionably carrying, but at least not outright putting them at a disadvantage. The former however is clearcut not Gold viable and should refine his skills in Silver until venturing into Gold again.


Of course if that is playing Gold only with friends, then the whole point is moot, because if they are okay with it, you can do whatever you want (though for myself, I'd always try and get better anyway, if not to not bother friends by loading up on them).

I absolutely agree with this...

[kira28]

you guys are thinking too hard. Just assume that everyone is doing the objectives, not messing up spawns, picking up teammates that get downed right next to them, not joining games in progress.

In that case good score = good player. Especially the players who use rockets to speed up platinum on certain waves and objectiives.

[Alien Number Six]

Score is not a good judge of how well you played. I have scored a kill on a banshee killed by my friend's rocket because I was shooting at it when it died. You don't points for shield boosting. You don't get points for dropping a Geth Turret to heal your friend after reviving him or her. You dont get points for dropping a Biotic Bubble around your friends. There are too many ways to be a good team player without scoring.

[LordBagardo]

 A good player is someone who:

• Can do well in combat, such as get headshots often and use cover/powers well
• Revives their team mates when possible
• Helps with objectives the best they can
• Pulls their own wait, but doesn't show off
• Is friendly to strangers and doesn't grief or insult them
• Has good knowledge of builds and weapon mod usage
• Doesn't abuse glitches or bugs in order to win
• Goes on mic and uses it to assist the team, rather than abuse them, play music to them or not say anything and create static for the entire game
• Knows their place - newcomers should not be attempting anything higher than bronze until they max out their starting gear and they learn how to play

In my opinion, anyway. Score obviously shows someone has pulled their own weight but getting top doesn't always mean they were the best player there.

Modifié par LordBagardo, 25 janvier 2013 - 06:05 .

[landylan]

121210Olivia wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

121210Olivia wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

If someone scores 250k in a 4 player game I think it's safe to say that player is a good player.

Agree. The likelihood of this happening regularly, however, is another matter altogether.

 

Happens regularly when I play. :innocent:

I see. In all my time playing (2500+ games and counting) I've yet to, even once, witness this.

I see it all the time when the PCers post their E-peen boosters, but they've been letting the xbox players make lame score threads recently.