286 réponses à ce sujet

[INVADERONE]

Deerber wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

I dont disagree with the "poor design" comment but in all honesty as I do like playing in Gold as its just a really chill easy game...I prefer platinum. I play with pretty much all good players most of the time and playing on Gold with all of us its like playing Bronze pretty much...no challenge at all and were just running around trying to find something to shoot at. 

About platinum being all a boss spam I cant say that for the way it looks for example fighting the reaper faction. There are tons of cannibals, husks and marauders galore every wave. They just include a few other bosses but there are tons of mooks so....it dont think Feneckus's comment about Platinum is accurate. Its a decent opinion for sure but its not accurate. On platinum you simply have boss enemies every wave but there are tons of mooks to shoot at the same as in Gold on every single wave. I'd have to disagree on that one...again..just my two cents anyways. 

Glad to see you back by the way. Hope we can catch a few games some time.

You can check here that that is just your impression, really 

https://docs.google....tput=html&gid=6

If you compare the numbers between gold and platinum, you'll see that non-boss enemies are a lot less common in platinum.

Edit: :ph34r:d by Lathrim.

Pretty much proved my point... a lot less in comparison but there every wave.... :/ Both difficulties are drastically different. My point was that there are mooks on mostly every wave really. Other point was that when I game all the players are really good that on Gold its hardly a challenge and its mostly running around trying to find anything to shoot at. I think the groups of gamers I have played with have proven as well that you can play platinum with even base weapons and non traditional builds. I have a brand new PS3 account and I am playing platinum there with a human adept before I even had any rares or even level V weapons.... Not trying to contradict your point of view. I am just stating what I prefer as Platinum provides more fun for me as there are enough enemies for the team to actually have kills and have fun evenly as opposed to Gold were.... well... back to what I wrote before 

[Ziegrif]

Davik Kang wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...
With good players in a team it all boils down to who gets to the juiciest spawn first, clears it and predicts and gets to another one faster. 

Yeah I guess this is how it ends up but it sounds really boring.  I will prob quit if I ever get to this level.  I don't really understand why players this good would ever bother with Gold or Silver.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this can be really fun and satisfying for many players, different people different tastes etc.

For me high level play with pretty much zero chances of failure and the situation that Air Quotes described has been the most boring thing in ME3MP that I have experienced.

The better your team is the bigger a gun you have to use to keep up and be more useful.
I like using a lot of lower end guns and end up playing a lot of Geth due to that to compensate on dmg.

Was my decision to bring a Scimitar X in a game once that I got an invite for, sure the teammates that had invited me laughed at my choice of weaponry while they had Javs, Piranhas etc. but when I pug not once has ANYONE complained about my choice of weaponry. I had more fun in PUGs than in a private game that time.

I like rolling with common weaponry on gold. The better players run with more higher end guns making me feel useless and this is not fun for me. I also don't like being in a game as nothing more than a bullet sponge so I tend to gravitate more towards PUG play there being a more wide variety of skill levels.

I'd rather play with people around my skill level and have an exciting match than play with 3 people from the top, end up not contributing much, having to depend on higher end stuff to be useful in the next game and having pretty much zero chance of the game becoming a wipe.

Oh and as a player. I may score high but I'm average.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 24 janvier 2013 - 04:26 .

[Faulcun]

Davik Kang wrote...

Hi BSN MP people, I've been playing a lot of MP for the last couple of months and have started checking this MP forum a lot over the last few days.

Something that seems to come across to me is that players on here often boast about how often they come top of the scoreboard in PUGs and other games.  (What is PUG btw?  Public game?)  That's the impression I get, forgive me if I'm wrong about this.

Is this a general consensus amongst you guys here?  As far as I can tell, score is made up almost exclusively from damage, and from getting the killing blow (kills generally count for much more than assists).  So essentially, players are measuring themselves on how much damage they do over the 11 waves.

Is this generally agreed upon?  That the best player is the one who deals the most damage?  I am confused and surprised by this, because the more I play, the more I notice how teams who fail at whatever level tend to have disregard for teamwork and aim to solo everything, whereas teams that use even basic teamwork strategies tend to extract much more often.

To me I would have thought overall success rate of full team extraction would be a better way to measure how good a player is.  I understand that when you're playing with a group of weaker players, you're going to outscore them massively.  I also understand that dealing massive damage to the enemy is vital in clearing out waves quickly and effectively.  

But my goal when playing this is always to get a full team extraction, rather than outscoring everybody.

Am I wrong?  Is the measure of a good player simply the scores they are capable of getting?  Or is it just that you've played it so much that full team extraction is inevitable, because the game's too easy for you now?

You hit the nail on the head. In fact, thats what 90% of the nerf/buff threads translate to. "I was using blah blah weapon and couldnt outscore a N720 using a TGI harrier, so nerf/buff everything!".

Then they realize it didnt change their skill at all, so nerf/buff everything again!

[HolyAvenger]

This plat versus gold argument is stupid. Some good players prefer gold, others prefer plat. That is all.

[ISHYGDDT]

Faulcun wrote...

You hit the nail on the head. In fact, thats what 90% of the nerf/buff threads translate to. "I was using blah blah weapon and couldnt outscore a N720 using a TGI harrier, so nerf/buff everything!".

Your translator is malfunctioning.

[capn233]

Simultaneously, score is not an indicator of skill, and yet whoever scores the most is automatically the best player.

The above is the first rule of ME3 MP. That's why you have to be able to tolerate cognitive dissonance to be good at ME3.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Davik Kang wrote...

Hi BSN MP people, I've been playing a lot of MP for the last couple of months and have started checking this MP forum a lot over the last few days.

Something that seems to come across to me is that players on here often boast about how often they come top of the scoreboard in PUGs and other games.  (What is PUG btw?  Public game?)  That's the impression I get, forgive me if I'm wrong about this.

PUG = Pick Up Group.

Is this a general consensus amongst you guys here?

Why does the general consensus matter to you (assuming such a thing even exists)?

As far as I can tell, score is made up almost exclusively from damage, and from getting the killing blow (kills generally count for much more than assists).  So essentially, players are measuring themselves on how much damage they do over the 11 waves.

I have no idea how exactly the numbers are calculated. But one thing the score perhaps tells you is how often you were engaging the enemy and how often you ended up killing stuff or assisting in killing stuff.

Is this generally agreed upon?  That the best player is the one who deals the most damage?  I am confused and surprised by this, because the more I play, the more I notice how teams who fail at whatever level tend to have disregard for teamwork and aim to solo everything, whereas teams that use even basic teamwork strategies tend to extract much more often.

Score means little if the said highest scorer gets sync-killed (or runs out of medi gel) every so often. I've seen enough instances of the so-called high scorers in games, dying, taking on spawns head-on, and the matches wouldn't have succeeded if at least some of the other three didn't exercise more caution. Also I've seen instances of people going solo and handling themselves very well.

To me I would have thought overall success rate of full team extraction would be a better way to measure how good a player is.  I understand that when you're playing with a group of weaker players, you're going to outscore them massively.  I also understand that dealing massive damage to the enemy is vital in clearing out waves quickly and effectively.

Being able to deal damage is important, in my opinion. It leads to lesser frustration and faster games overall. But that is perhaps not all what the game is about.

But my goal when playing this is always to get a full team extraction, rather than outscoring everybody.

Usually full extraction is my goal as well, but depending on how the team mates behave during wave 11, I may or may not risk reviving guys (nor do I expect them to revive me). I still have a little bit of my manifest to max, which matters to me.

Am I wrong?  Is the measure of a good player simply the scores they are capable of getting?  Or is it just that you've played it so much that full team extraction is inevitable, because the game's too easy for you now?

I'd say there is some truth in all the statements above. There are however no certainties as you tend to imply in your last statement - meaning the game even though easier for some now than it was before, after long hours of play, doesn't always imply full extraction; probably there is a greater chance of that happening, that's all.

[Davik Kang]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

If score doesn't matter, why are there so many threads debating it. If you don't give a rat's arse where you are on the scoreboard, why would you care what some message board scrubs think? 

I'm not saying score does or doesn't matter at the end of the day but A LOT of the time people post these score doesn't matter threads or support character threads because they suck at the game.

Score definitely matters, but I was wondering whether people thought it was all that mattered.  Based on what I've seen on BSN the answer appeared to be yes.  This isn't a personal thing, it won't change my opinion on what makes a good player.  It's nice if someone thinks I'm good, but I don't care about impressing other players.  Message Board Scrub or World Top 10 Pro, I don't care what level I'm supposedly at.  For anyone that's wondering, I am not an especially good player at all, I just like the game.

This wasn't supposed to be a score doesn't matter thread - more, a 'what else matters?' thread.  E.g. my own score in a given game depends hugely on the build I'm using.  If I'm using a huge DPS build then I've got a good chance of getting a huge score.  But I don't find it all that satisfying using Marksman with a massively buffed Harrier and watching an Atlas drop in seconds.  I'll get a good score, but I don't feel like I've contributed anything except point and shoot.  Whereas if I'm using my head a bit, say, playing in a way that means I can quickly rescue teammates if things get nasty - like taking out a sneaky Marouder that snuck up behind an ally; or using a missile on a couple of Cerberus Turrets because I can see my teammates aren't gonna destroy them before they start going down; or bombarding a closing boss with massively debuffing Biotic Orbs so that it'll die faster -  then I at least feel like I'm using my head and playing an interesting game.  Basically I enjoy the game when my actions made a difference in terms of whether we extracted or not.  And high score DPS is essential in doing this, but if it's the only thing everyone's doing, it becomes a race against teammates which IMO is not fun.

To put it another way, a lot of the time I think the higher scoring players are the better players overall, but not because they scored high... more that they scored high because they are good players.  I see team extraction as the goal of the team from the beginning, and high scoring DPS from at least one player as one of the components in achieving this.  Whereas considering a full extraction the reward for having enough high-scoring players in the team seems to be getting it the wrong way round.  But this could be due to my relatively low level of course.

ISHYGDDT wrote...

I probably over analyze the scoreboard, which I can do since I screenshot most matches, but my take:

The score that matters most is the one in the top right corner: completion time, that tells me how good the team is as a whole.

Next, I look at my score/time (divided by 1.4 if UUG) that tells me how fast I killed and therefore how good I am with the build I am using (of course extraction/survival/killstreak medals are included so it isn't a perfect metric.) I try to improve that number every match when I'm learning a character.

Finally, I look at the distribution. If I got less than 1/2 the points those were decent PUGs. If I'm second, the guy in first is getting a friend request.

Yes, sometimes people blow through missiles on infinite spawn waves to increase their score, which can lead to artificially inflated numbers, but that's usually how they get from 4th to 3rd place not to 1st.

This is an example of what I just don't get.  If someone outscores you they get Friend Request?  What happens if next time you outscore them 4 to 1, do you remove them?  I would have thought you'd focus on how they play rather than what score they get.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 24 janvier 2013 - 04:33 .

[INVADERONE]

HolyAvenger wrote...

This plat versus gold argument is stupid. Some good players prefer gold, others prefer plat. That is all.

Yup Yup. Its just preference really.

Modifié par INVADERONE, 24 janvier 2013 - 04:35 .

[Dark Tlaloc]

I know I’m late to this discussion, but I’ll reiterate what I’m sure has been said a million times before:

Score is one way that people use to determine how good a player is, but it is by far the only metric. For example, two people playing the same weapon-dependent class may have vastly differing scores, but the difference in skill could be negligible. One could be playing a Turian soldier with an Argus X and no consumables, and the other could be using a Harrier X with AR Ramp IV and Incendiary Ammo IV. Generally speaking, the Harrier player will tear everything to pieces before the Argus has a chance, especially if both players have the same skill level.

There really is no perfect way to determine player skill, and score is the easiest, so people use it. But play-style influences score greatly, so it’s a pretty flawed metric. Again for example, you have a Geth Infiltrator and a QMI, with similar loadouts. On a balanced team with equally skilled players, theoretically the GI should be able to outscore the QMI. But what if the player playing GI likes to play support more, and so runs around debuffing enemies, reviving any downed allies, and doing all the objectives? If you’re a kill-first player, you’re going to score higher than a support-first player of equal skill.

Essentially, the best players are the ones that play well (or “best”) within whatever system their team uses. If the team has no organization and everyone is racing for score, sure, top score wins. But if your team has a plan, and you fit your role in the plan better than anyone else, your score won’t reflect your contribution.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Good players high score, but high scorers aren't always good players. And then you have to factor lag, fooling around, etc...

Anyway, why do you care? Just play the game.

Modifié par Jay_Hoxtatron, 24 janvier 2013 - 04:37 .

[Miniditka77]

tMc Tallgeese wrote...

High scores are not necessarily indicative of good players. A good player can be fourth on the list from setting off a biotic team's explosions, as an example.

True - also getting a lot of kills doesn't mean you're a great player if you keep dying all the time.  I played an awful Gold game last night where I was dying left and right - I probably never died that many times in a game ever (although playing as a Drell Adept with 3 infiltrators who were constantly cloaking and running away might have had something to do with it).  Still, I stayed close to my teammates so they could revive me, and I was topping the scoreboard until Wave 9 when I ran out of MediGel.  Still finished #2, but I think I would have been the worst player on the team if it weren't for a total scrub who bled out or got insta-killed within the first minute of every wave.

[mrcanada]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Nah, a lot of "top scoreers" suck as players in a squad based game.  They constantly "steal kill", don't help with objectives, refuse to revive anyone, and lack the skill to play anything but an overpowered "I win" character.  Don't pay attention to the elitists in peacock mode.

lolkillstealing.

[upinya slayin]

INVADERONE wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

This plat versus gold argument is stupid. Some good players prefer gold, others prefer plat. That is all.

Yup Yup. Its just preference really.

Pretty much. I cna play platinum just fine, but i prefer gold. I think its more fun becuase eveyrhting works on gold so u can use fun layouts. I'll asari melee my way thorugh gold, but i cna't get it to work on plaitnum. gold = more fun IMO

[INVADERONE]

Lathrim wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

Deerber wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

I dont disagree with the "poor design" comment but in all honesty as I do like playing in Gold as its just a really chill easy game...I prefer platinum. I play with pretty much all good players most of the time and playing on Gold with all of us its like playing Bronze pretty much...no challenge at all and were just running around trying to find something to shoot at. 

About platinum being all a boss spam I cant say that for the way it looks for example fighting the reaper faction. There are tons of cannibals, husks and marauders galore every wave. They just include a few other bosses but there are tons of mooks so....it dont think Feneckus's comment about Platinum is accurate. Its a decent opinion for sure but its not accurate. On platinum you simply have boss enemies every wave but there are tons of mooks to shoot at the same as in Gold on every single wave. I'd have to disagree on that one...again..just my two cents anyways. 

Glad to see you back by the way. Hope we can catch a few games some time.

You can check here that that is just your impression, really 

https://docs.google....tput=html&gid=6

If you compare the numbers between gold and platinum, you'll see that non-boss enemies are a lot less common in platinum.

Edit: :ph34r:d by Lathrim.

Pretty much proved my point... a lot less in comparison but there every wave.... :/ Both difficulties are drastically different. My point was that there are mooks on mostly every wave really. Other point was that when I game all the players are really good that on Gold its hardly a challenge and its mostly running around trying to find anything to shoot at. I think the groups of gamers I have played with have proven as well that you can play platinum with even base weapons and non traditional builds. I have a brand new PS3 account and I am playing platinum there with a human adept before I even had any rares or even level V weapons.... Not trying to contradict your point of view. I am just stating what I prefer as Platinum provides more fun for me as there are enough enemies for the team to actually have kills and have fun evenly as opposed to Gold were.... well... back to what I wrote before 

Oh, really? I must wonder why you said "There are tons of cannibals, husks and marauders galore every wave.", then.

Oh geez here we go. Of course it was an exxageration but the point was that there are enough "mooks" each wave. The file proves that. Actually we should also talk to Cyonian as this does not seem accurate actually. Kind of glad he even put a disclaimer as well. 

[Computron2000]

If you're on a high dps character (many but not all infiltrators/soldiers/vanguards + furies) and you have 50k at the end of the game, you were not doing your job.

You can blame it on lag but the first thing i like to ask such people is "Why the hell did you not quit the game there and then? No loss of equipment if you quit quick."

You can also blame it on having lousy weapons or no equipment in which case the obvious question is "why the hell did you bring such a ****ty weapon or not use equipment? Thought you were good? Well results don't lie."

In addition to having a good enough score, doing objectives is expected. Reviving peeps that are not worthless (as in fall down and bleed out every wave or just keep falling down) is also expected.

If you're not a high dps character, props on keeping up or exceeding the dps ones but mainly keep alive, stay on your feet and help out. If you can't, you should consider changing characters.

[INVADERONE]

upinya slayin wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

This plat versus gold argument is stupid. Some good players prefer gold, others prefer plat. That is all.

Yup Yup. Its just preference really.

Pretty much. I cna play platinum just fine, but i prefer gold. I think its more fun becuase eveyrhting works on gold so u can use fun layouts. I'll asari melee my way thorugh gold, but i cna't get it to work on plaitnum. gold = more fun IMO

So far you are the best Asari Melee players I have seen. I have to get in on that melee action some time. It was fun seeing you get nothing but melee kills on Gold. We should do an all Asari Melee game on Gold soon.

[Bechter]

INVADERONE wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

This plat versus gold argument is stupid. Some good players prefer gold, others prefer plat. That is all.

Yup Yup. Its just preference really.

What you can't argue the design of platinum vs gold? I agree that arguing a players preference is nonsensical.

Like why was it designed as boss spam when many of the most dangerous units on each faction are the mook level enemies?

Why are you forced to play multifaction when this units were never designed to interact with each other? Wouldn't a platinum setting with individual factions preset as much or more of a challenge?

Why is multifaction limited to platinum? Shouldn't players who only want to play bronze, silver, or gold be allowed to experiment with multifaction enemies?

The balancings of kits get even more thrown out of wack when making the jump to platinum.

These are all valid points that should be discussed

[MichaelFinnegan]

Davik Kang wrote...


This is an example of what I just don't get.  If someone outscores you they get Friend Request?  What happens if next time you outscore them 4 to 1, do you remove them?  I would have thought you'd focus on how they play rather than what score they get.

Here's my personal experience at least. The guys who have sent me friend requests till now are those who saw me refusing to give up, even if it meant 30-40 minute games overall. By my own estimate, I'm a pretty average player - meaning I still cannot handle things on my own in many cases. But I damned well try, and that matters enough to some people for them to think it's worthwhile playing more matches with me.

[upinya slayin]

INVADERONE wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

This plat versus gold argument is stupid. Some good players prefer gold, others prefer plat. That is all.

Yup Yup. Its just preference really.

Pretty much. I cna play platinum just fine, but i prefer gold. I think its more fun becuase eveyrhting works on gold so u can use fun layouts. I'll asari melee my way thorugh gold, but i cna't get it to work on plaitnum. gold = more fun IMO

So far you are the best Asari Melee players I have seen. I have to get in on that melee action some time. It was fun seeing you get nothing but melee kills on Gold. We should do an all Asari Melee game on Gold soon.

I played one with 2 friends and a random and on wave 2 i killstreaked a spawn and i was liek the random must be like WTF just happened. I got pretty lucky i was behind the guardians and someone set off a BE of my AF then i meleed and teh whole spawn died. it was hilarious.

[INVADERONE]

upinya slayin wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

This plat versus gold argument is stupid. Some good players prefer gold, others prefer plat. That is all.

Yup Yup. Its just preference really.

Pretty much. I cna play platinum just fine, but i prefer gold. I think its more fun becuase eveyrhting works on gold so u can use fun layouts. I'll asari melee my way thorugh gold, but i cna't get it to work on plaitnum. gold = more fun IMO

So far you are the best Asari Melee players I have seen. I have to get in on that melee action some time. It was fun seeing you get nothing but melee kills on Gold. We should do an all Asari Melee game on Gold soon.

I played one with 2 friends and a random and on wave 2 i killstreaked a spawn and i was liek the random must be like WTF just happened. I got pretty lucky i was behind the guardians and someone set off a BE of my AF then i meleed and teh whole spawn died. it was hilarious.

Bro. Im hitting you up this week. 4 Asari melee action...lots of moans though...doesnt bother me though. So going to record it.

[sabientje67]

When you don't use any equipment on gold, and you get 30K points, then I'll award you with a red cross next to your name. But if you're showing you want to help by putting on equipment, then score doesn't matter at all to me.

[Faulcun]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Faulcun wrote...

You hit the nail on the head. In fact, thats what 90% of the nerf/buff threads translate to. "I was using blah blah weapon and couldnt outscore a N720 using a TGI harrier, so nerf/buff everything!".

Your translator is malfunctioning.

Hmm, maybe... I'll have to look into it after the TGI, Harrier, GI, TC, FB Rio, Dragoons, all geth, acolyte, sabotage, singularity, GPS, black widow, kroguard, reegar, and grenades have all finished being destroyed.