210 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyPhoenix]

LOL.. So if I along with a bunch of loonies go to the neighboring nation and begin to "peacefully annex" it into my own, I'd be allowed to do that?

[The Night Mammoth]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

So the Asari got scared that they might no longer be on top..... So they started a war that they couldn't win.

Geniuses.

What should the asari have done instead, then? 

Preventing the warlike krogan from taking one of their colonies and launching an invasion of the capial and homeworld seems entirely reasonable.

It sounds like, by 2025, Muslims will outnumber Jews living in the nation of Israel - one side is simply having more children. Should Israeli Jews launch some sort of pre-emptive strike?

Not trying to start a political firestorm on the boards, but the situation is similar.

I don't understand the situation in Israel enough to be able to properly comment, but why would they want to launch a pre-emptive strike? What would it gain?

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 24 janvier 2013 - 02:59 .

[DeinonSlayer]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

So the Asari got scared that they might no longer be on top..... So they started a war that they couldn't win.

Geniuses.

What should the asari have done instead, then? 

Preventing the warlike krogan from taking one of their colonies and launching an invasion of the capial and homeworld seems entirely reasonable.

It sounds like, by 2025, Muslims will outnumber Jews living in the nation of Israel - one side is simply having more children. Should Israeli Jews launch some sort of pre-emptive strike?

Not trying to start a political firestorm on the boards, but the situation is similar.

I don't understand the situation in Israel enough to be able to properly comment, but why would they want to launch a pre-emptive strike? 

They don't, and neither do I. But the fact remains there is a long-standing religious conflict there. Rocket attacks are a near-daily occurence.

[SpamBot2000]

There is a long-standing tribal territorial conflict there. But let's please not go there at all on this forum.

And if you do, be sure to bring your arguing ammo.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 24 janvier 2013 - 03:05 .

[Steelcan]

simfamSP wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The Krogan were invading a council world. How is that not "firing the first shot"?

. It would seem this wasnt a barbarian horde bashing down the gates.  But a peaceful occupation that turned violent after they were attacked.

Krogan and 'peaceful' flipped over eachother is a massive oxymoron.

. Show me in that description where it says that the Krogan violently attacked the colony.

[DeinonSlayer]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

So the Asari got scared that they might no longer be on top..... So they started a war that they couldn't win.

Geniuses.

What should the asari have done instead, then? 

Preventing the warlike krogan from taking one of their colonies and launching an invasion of the capial and homeworld seems entirely reasonable.

It sounds like, by 2025, Muslims will outnumber Jews living in the nation of Israel - one side is simply having more children. Should Israeli Jews launch some sort of pre-emptive strike?

Note, I am NOT advocating such an action, and neither are they. Not trying to start a political firestorm on the boards, but the situation is similar.

Do they include the Muslims living in the West Bank and Gaza, or just those in Israel itself?

Just Israel itself. By 2025, Israeli Jews will be a minority.

[The Night Mammoth]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

So the Asari got scared that they might no longer be on top..... So they started a war that they couldn't win.

Geniuses.

What should the asari have done instead, then? 

Preventing the warlike krogan from taking one of their colonies and launching an invasion of the capial and homeworld seems entirely reasonable.

It sounds like, by 2025, Muslims will outnumber Jews living in the nation of Israel - one side is simply having more children. Should Israeli Jews launch some sort of pre-emptive strike?

Not trying to start a political firestorm on the boards, but the situation is similar.

I don't understand the situation in Israel enough to be able to properly comment, but why would they want to launch a pre-emptive strike? 

They don't, and neither do I. But the fact remains there is a long-standing religious conflict there. Rocket attacks are a near-daily occurence.

The conflict is within the same country, so I don't really know what to say. The asari's actions seem a little less pre-emptive, and more reactive against pretty direct krogan action. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

Trying to 'annex" an already-controlled territory seems pretty shady to me. Peacefully or non-peacefully doesn't count. If a country tries to "peacefully annex" parts of my nation I'd react in force. I think most other nations will.

[Liamv2]

For those who dont know annexed means

Annexed

• to attach, append, or add, esp. to something larger or more important.
  
• to incorporate (territory) into the domain of a city, country, or state: Germany annexed part of Czechoslovakia.
  
• to take or appropriate, without permission.
  
• to attach as an attribute, condition, or consequence.
  
• a subsidiary building or an addition to a building
  
• something added to a document; appendix; supplement: an annex to a treaty.

Hopefully there will be no dumb arguments

Modifié par Liamv2, 24 janvier 2013 - 03:10 .

[Barquiel]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

That's like blaming Poland, France and England for the outbreak of WW2.

I was more than a little alarmed when Wrex started his "we need breathing space!" spiel. That said, it sounds like this was immigration - not an armed invasion.

Some of Wrex's comments are rather alarming as well, that is true.

The Krogan started annexing territory from other Citadel races as well. Sure, the asari could have given up the planet (it has a population of more than 2 billion asari, that's why I find it hard to believe that it was just immigration)...but the krogan clearly wanted "Lebensraum" (I mean...does anyone believe that Europe's problems would have been solved had Poland given up Danzig and allowed a corridor, or if England and France had accepted Hitlers offer of peace at the end of the Polish campaign?).

A few years later...and the krogan would have demanded the next planets.

Modifié par Barquiel, 24 janvier 2013 - 03:08 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The Krogan were invading a council world. How is that not "firing the first shot"?

. It would seem this wasnt a barbarian horde bashing down the gates.  But a peaceful occupation that turned violent after they were attacked.

Krogan and 'peaceful' flipped over eachother is a massive oxymoron.

. Show me in that description where it says that the Krogan violently attacked the colony.

You're putting words in his mouth. 

No, it doesn't say that, obviously. 

But it says they tried to annex the colony, and since it's the krogan, it's very easy to assume that it wasn't peaceful.

[DirtySHISN0]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Meandering through the galaxy map, I came across this planet:

The Krogan Rebellions began in the asari colony of Lusia. After centuries of unabated expansion, the krogan finally forced the Council's hand when they tried to annex this world. Aware that in a generation, Lusia could be a staging base for an invasion of Thessia, the Council came to the colony's defense. They cut the krogan supply lines off at Thessia's mass relay and inflicted heavy casualties. The krogan here surrendered, but others across the galaxy were enraged. Lusia became the catalyst for a much greater war.

Thoughts?

Forced the Councils hand

In powder Keg situations, actions are as damaging as shots.

Joint responsibility.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 24 janvier 2013 - 03:12 .

[simonrana]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

So the Asari got scared that they might no longer be on top..... So they started a war that they couldn't win.

Geniuses.

What should the asari have done instead, then? 

Preventing the warlike krogan from taking one of their colonies and launching an invasion of the capial and homeworld seems entirely reasonable.

It sounds like, by 2025, Muslims will outnumber Jews living in the nation of Israel - one side is simply having more children. Should Israeli Jews launch some sort of pre-emptive strike?

Note, I am NOT advocating such an action, and neither are they. Not trying to start a political firestorm on the boards, but the situation is similar.

Re-read the OP description - the Asari responded AFTER the Krogan tried to annex their world.

[Zkyire]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Meandering through the galaxy map, I came across this planet:

The Krogan Rebellions began in the asari colony of Lusia. After centuries of unabated expansion, the krogan finally forced the Council's hand when they tried to annex this world. Aware that in a generation, Lusia could be a staging base for an invasion of Thessia, the Council came to the colony's defense. They cut the krogan supply lines off at Thessia's mass relay and inflicted heavy casualties. The krogan here surrendered, but others across the galaxy were enraged. Lusia became the catalyst for a much greater war.

Thoughts?

Krogan started it.

Council escalated it.

Krogan escalated it further.

Council ended it.

Krogan spend the next 1000 years complaining about it.

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You're putting words in his mouth. 

No, it doesn't say that, obviously. 

But it says they tried to annex the colony, and since it's the krogan, it's very easy to assume that it wasn't peaceful.

No evidence to suggest it was violent.  And the terminology doesn't indicate any violence on the Krogan's part.  Just because it was done without permission doesn't mean it was violent.

that said I entirely understand the Council's reaction.  But they fired the first shot.  But the Krogan loaded the gun.

[Steelcan]

simonrana wrote...

Re-read the OP description - the Asari responded AFTER the Krogan tried to annex their world.

.   He is the OP

[Wulfram]

the Council came to the colony's defense.

doesn't say peaceful, consensual annexation to me.

[Steelcan]

Wulfram wrote...

the Council came to the colony's defense.

doesn't say peaceful, consensual annexation to me.

. The colony was in risk of being overrun by the rampant Krogan birthrate, they'd be outcompeted, it was a preemptive strike, which is a form of defense.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Let's say Krogan peacefully immigrated.

20 burly strangers peacefully immigrate into your house and then decide that, since they are the majority, the house is kind of theirs.

Or 20 million immigrants come to a 5 million country.

Yeah, no problems there.

[Wulfram]

Steelcan wrote...

The colony was in risk of being overrun by the rampant Krogan birthrate, they'd be outcompeted, it was a preemptive strike, which is a form of defense.

1.  Please stop inventing things and passing them off as facts.
2.  The only reference to Krogans present on the world refers to "forces", ie soldiers.  Not settlers.
3.  Why would an ancient and well populated Asari world in the heartland of Asari space permit widespread Krogan settlement in the first place?

Modifié par Wulfram, 24 janvier 2013 - 03:44 .

[Steelcan]

Wulfram wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The colony was in risk of being overrun by the rampant Krogan birthrate, they'd be outcompeted, it was a preemptive strike, which is a form of defense.

1.  Please stop inventing things and passing them off as facts.
2.  The only reference to Krogans present on the world refers to "forces", ie soldiers.  Not settlers.
3.  Why would an ancient and well populated Asari world permit widespread Krogan settlement in the first place?

. No I'm passing them off as plausible scenarios supported by the description not facts.  Sorry if that was u clear.

Soldiers would imply an invasion, not an annexation.  That isn't supported by the dedescription

Catch-22

[KieranW]

The Krogan had begun aggressive expansion long before Lusia. They wouldn't even ask for a new world, they would just take it, regardless of whether anyone was on it or not. The Council races originally let them get away with it, because they owed the Krogan a great debt.

But if the Krogan annexed Eden Prime or Terra Nova, at the gateway to Earth, you can be damn sure Humanity would have done the same. The Krogan had been pushing their luck for a long, long time. In fact, I remember reading that when the Council asked the Krogan to back off, their Emissary stormed off the Citadel saying something along the lines of "What're you gonna do about it?"

Nah, the Council (especially the Asari) were entirely justified.

[jkflipflopDAO]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Meandering through the galaxy map, I came across this planet:

The Krogan Rebellions began in the asari colony of Lusia. After centuries of unabated expansion, the krogan finally forced the Council's hand when they tried to annex this world. Aware that in a generation, Lusia could be a staging base for an invasion of Thessia, the Council came to the colony's defense. They cut the krogan supply lines off at Thessia's mass relay and inflicted heavy casualties. The krogan here surrendered, but others across the galaxy were enraged. Lusia became the catalyst for a much greater war.

Thoughts?

WTF are you talking about? It says right there that the Krogan were conquring worlds right and left until they tried to take over Lusia. How do you think they were annexing it? By giving out vouchers for free starship washes? No, they were killing Asari. Sounds like the Krogan fired the first 50 shots before the council finally said "enough".