139 réponses à ce sujet

[iOnlySignIn]

Have you tried marriage and child-raising IRL? Or witnessed them up close?

If so, you won't be fantasizing about them any more.

[Knight of Dane]

esper wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

esper wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

H. Birdman wrote...

Not sure I understand the "no in-game kids" rule.

There really isn't anything to understand.

In my experience it's mostly people who are intimidated by the thought who make up this kind of "rules."

Once romance was thought as forbitten in games but some, especially bioware has proven that wrong.

Why not the next stop?
Games can invoke many emotions.

Because, resourcess.

It doesn't fit into the kind of game bioware is, there need to be a lot of resourcess to do this right.

And it needs to be done right, at the first try, or it will be horrible.

But I do agree that if we have to have children it needs to be in game and not the epilog.

But I still think that with the life dragon age 'heroes' live, getting a child would border on neglect. How could they possible care for them?

Well....

I absolutely agree.

I would love for siring children to be possible, in Dragon Age too, but the point of my argument is not that Dragon Age specifically should have children, but the notion that having them in games at all is an outdated one.
And that - in case Dragon age should have kids in them - that they do it right.

It might have to take a new series, perhaps not made by bioware, and a thorough design process to get it right.
It's a vision for the next generation of game designers, hopefully my own.

....

Have you never played Rune Factory? I mean I understand if Harvest Moon is too sim-like, or dating-sim like for you. And it is not exactly M-rated either.

But the conceot is there, it is being made.

(And now I realize that you might not be a console players. Slaps self. I just assume that all naturally owns a DS, a PSP and a PS3 a Wii and other such thing)

I play all sorts of games, and as I wrote further above, I have played several games of both Harvest Moon and Rune Factory. I own a PC, PS3, Wii and 3DSXL.

Perhaps I should have clarified, I did not mean to say that no games had ever tried it before, but those that have are, off the top of my head; Harvest Moon, Rune Factory and the Sims.
All of those are not rated for mature gamers, which was the target audience I had in my thoughts since that is what Dragon Age is intended for.

The premise of the romances in all of those games are pretty non-mature, in content at least.

[Knight of Dane]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Have you tried marriage and child-raising IRL? Or witnessed them up close?

If so, you won't be fantasizing about them any more.

So no one should be allowed to try it in a game because you are a parent with regrets?

Or do I read too much into what you say?

[iOnlySignIn]

Knight of Dane wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Have you tried marriage and child-raising IRL? Or witnessed them up close?

If so, you won't be fantasizing about them any more.

So no one should be allowed to try it in a game because you are a parent with regrets?

Or do I read too much into what you say?

Haha no. I don't do things which I know are stupid.

Which is why games should not promote a romanticized view of marriage and child-raising that dupes people into them IRL.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 25 janvier 2013 - 10:46 .

[Knight of Dane]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Have you tried marriage and child-raising IRL? Or witnessed them up close?

If so, you won't be fantasizing about them any more.

So no one should be allowed to try it in a game because you are a parent with regrets?

Or do I read too much into what you say?

Haha no. I don't do things which I know are stupid.

Which is why games should not promote a romanticized view of marriage and child-raising that dupes people into them IRL.

That's not the idea either, at least not the way I see it.

[esper]

Knight of Dane wrote...

esper wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

esper wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

H. Birdman wrote...

Not sure I understand the "no in-game kids" rule.

There really isn't anything to understand.

In my experience it's mostly people who are intimidated by the thought who make up this kind of "rules."

Once romance was thought as forbitten in games but some, especially bioware has proven that wrong.

Why not the next stop?
Games can invoke many emotions.

Because, resourcess.

It doesn't fit into the kind of game bioware is, there need to be a lot of resourcess to do this right.

And it needs to be done right, at the first try, or it will be horrible.

But I do agree that if we have to have children it needs to be in game and not the epilog.

But I still think that with the life dragon age 'heroes' live, getting a child would border on neglect. How could they possible care for them?

Well....

I absolutely agree.

I would love for siring children to be possible, in Dragon Age too, but the point of my argument is not that Dragon Age specifically should have children, but the notion that having them in games at all is an outdated one.
And that - in case Dragon age should have kids in them - that they do it right.

It might have to take a new series, perhaps not made by bioware, and a thorough design process to get it right.
It's a vision for the next generation of game designers, hopefully my own.

....

Have you never played Rune Factory? I mean I understand if Harvest Moon is too sim-like, or dating-sim like for you. And it is not exactly M-rated either.

But the conceot is there, it is being made.

(And now I realize that you might not be a console players. Slaps self. I just assume that all naturally owns a DS, a PSP and a PS3 a Wii and other such thing)

I play all sorts of games, and as I wrote further above, I have played several games of both Harvest Moon and Rune Factory. I own a PC, PS3, Wii and 3DSXL.

Perhaps I should have clarified, I did not mean to say that no games had ever tried it before, but those that have are, off the top of my head; Harvest Moon, Rune Factory and the Sims.
All of those are not rated for mature gamers, which was the target audience I had in my thoughts since that is what Dragon Age is intended for.

The premise of the romances in all of those games are pretty non-mature, in content at least.

Yes, it would be interesting seeing and M-rated game going that way. (But Rune Fantasy is at least, well fantasy, it is the first step on the route. (Am so anticipating number 4))

But I have a hard time seeing it getting the necessary resources it needs from bioware at least in dragon age.

Modifié par esper, 25 janvier 2013 - 10:51 .

[Emzamination]

Knight of Dane wrote...


It's not a child care simulation unless it applies to the child only, the exact same form of interaction is used with all characters in Fable III, the same way you interact a greeting, hand a gift, insult etc.

Those are child specific interactions.

But I don't care about Fable anyway, it's a dead francise, this is Dragon Age.
And I already said I don't want a simulator in Dragon Age.

Hmm? Fables not a dead franchise. Fable 4 is being in development for next-gen consoles. Anyways I'm using fable as an example of child care simulators in video games which makes it perfectly valid to the argument, in that context.

IF there is going to be a protag child I want it to at least have the apperance in your castle like Leandra, Dog and Sandal does in Dragon Age 2 at the least, scheduled interactions - and if the game takes place over several years, the child grows and you will be able to branch your relationship with it just like the companions.

Or ignore it, remember that it's supposed to be optional, if you don't want to interact, you don't have to.

 Erm...no. You're attempting to put waaay more importance on the matter than is neccessary.

Laidlaw has stated that the acts did not work out in Da2, and they won't be trying that again, which means no more time skips in game. Time skips are essential for a female protagonist to bypass the whole 9 months of pregnancy stage, as they can't very well fight in that state. Also since there are no time skips in-game it makes all talk of a child having an important story role or growing up a very moot point. A mention in a romanced epilogue like morrigans origin slide is enough.

You seem to be looking for some fable-esque type thing.

Modifié par Emzamination, 26 janvier 2013 - 02:07 .

[Emzamination]

H. Birdman wrote...

Not sure I understand the "no in-game kids" rule.

It could be a powerful roleplaying tool. In particular, it could force extremely difficult choices. When I play an RPG character who is basically good (which is most of the time), I almost never run into scenarios in which it's hard for me to make the "good" choice. Even if there is some significant cost--loss of a love interest, loss of some tangible perk--it's never enough to make me think, "Yeah, under these circumstances, this guy/girl would say, 'Screw it' and do the bad/selfish thing." So, even though I don't mean to, I almost always end up a paragon of virtue.

Kids change that. You can absolutely envision a paragon of virtue turning his back on countless innocent people to save his child. Or slaughtering otherwise decent folks because they threaten the child somehow. And then having to live with the guilt or rationalize it, which makes the "good guy" far more nuanced, morally grey, realistic, etc.

Just a thought.

That would be nice, but bioware has never and will never give the protagonist an actual kid in game. Keeping the child a post-game epilogue mention is a compromise of sorts for those who want to have a kid with their LI, but can't get one in game. It's an effective model bioware has been using for years, examples are in the op.

[Emzamination]

Andronic0s wrote...

I don't see what it could add to the game, I mean.. do you really need an epilogue slide confirming that a man and a woman in a settled relationship eventually had offspring? it's sort of a given unless you are actively trying not to (or one is barren I guess)

Yes, of course there should be a epilogue, detailing post-game events.Dragon isn't just a game, it's an entire story being told, and the majority of storys have epilogues detailing the protagonist actions post-story.

@lso, no it is not a given, that a couple had kids. When has that ever been true?

[ISpeakTheTruth]

esper wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I don't know why they havn't had the option of having a child in their games yet but it could be a nice addition.

Heck think of the amount of directions you could have had if Merrill could have had a child. She was meant to be the Keeper of her clan someone to hold onto their traditions and customs and then she not only get with a human but has a child that isn't an elf. That could have all kinds of psychological effects on the story of her character and the reaction from her tribe.

I'm not saying every character that is a LI should have a child only if the child builds a richer story for the characters around them.

And again, who would care for that child, Merrill? When she is stuck 20/7 in her house working on her very important project. Hawke, who at this point is a champion?


And what witt F/F Merrill? There has to be devoted equal content to the branches, you know. And what with all the other Li's without a child, what content do they have instead to make up for it?

And what when the player character is female, does that mean we have to fight when pregnant? My Hawke's signatur attack was stabbing herself through the stomach, obviously not good for a fetus. A child would open up for a whole new can 'what is social roles' worms off what option female and male players have...

Just because DA2's gameplay was 99% away from home doesn't mean that Hawke's life was 99% away from home. He/She had days where they weren't traveling around slaying monster and bandits they had lives outside of the dungeons that we see. Hawke would be able to do as much child raising as Merrill could. When he isn't being the champion he could totatly be a dad. Merrill could do her mirror thing on the side and still be a mom. Yes life does not stop because you become a parent you simply have to find ways of making it work.

As for a F/F relationship that's easy you either have an adoption sidequest or you come across a mother and father killed by something/someone you kill that threat find they had a child that didn't die and you have the option of taking care of the child or giving it to the Chantry. Look at that problem solved.

As for a female character... time skip during pregnancy not very hard.

[Knight of Dane]

Emzamination wrote...
 Erm...no. You're attempting to put waaay more importance on the matter than is neccessary. 

Laidlaw has stated that the acts did not work out in Da2, and they won't be trying that again, which means no more time skips in game. Time skips are essential for a female protagonist to bypass the whole 9 months of pregnancy stage, as they can't very well fight in that state. Also since there are no time skips in-game it makes all talk of a child having an important story role or growing up a very moot point. A mention in a romanced epilogue like morrigans origin slide is enough.

You seem to be looking for some fable-esque type thing.

God dam-

You discuss like your opinion is fact, "more importance than is necessarty," says who? You!

And I am well aware that there isn't acts, but that is not the only way to progress a game, have you no sense for story development at all?
Besides everything I say is IF there were to be children in A game and not just Dragon Age.
I'm telling you how I would like it, I do not demand a certain way it should be.

I'm looking at something innovative, which is not what Fable is, so no I'm noit looking for something like that, the children in Fable is just generic npc's like any other character besides yourself and your allies.
Have you not been reading what I wrote? I want, IF IT IS IN THE GAME, a child or children that has a part to play and are not just generic Npc373 and 752. I want it to be developed properly just like any important bioware character.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 25 janvier 2013 - 11:58 .

[Knight of Dane]

Emzamination wrote...
That would be nice, but bioware has never and will never give the protagonist an actual kid in game. Keeping the child a post-game epilogue mention is a compromise of sorts for those who want to have a kid with their LI, but can't get one in game. It's an effective model bioware has been using for years, examples are in the op.

If designers was thinking the way you do nothing original would ever be created.

Compromises in design and development are halting excuses for not experimenting with something properly.

[H. Birdman]

esper wrote...

H. Birdman wrote...

Not sure I understand the "no in-game kids" rule.

It could be a powerful roleplaying tool. In particular, it could force extremely difficult choices. When I play an RPG character who is basically good (which is most of the time), I almost never run into scenarios in which it's hard for me to make the "good" choice. Even if there is some significant cost--loss of a love interest, loss of some tangible perk--it's never enough to make me think, "Yeah, under these circumstances, this guy/girl would say, 'Screw it' and do the bad/selfish thing." So, even though I don't mean to, I almost always end up a paragon of virtue.

Kids change that. You can absolutely envision a paragon of virtue turning his back on countless innocent people to save his child. Or slaughtering otherwise decent folks because they threaten the child somehow. And then having to live with the guilt or rationalize it, which makes the "good guy" far more nuanced, morally grey, realistic, etc.

Just a thought.

Because my character don't have time to care for the child, this is not Rune Factory or Harvest Moon where your spouse is nice enough to stay home (most of the time) and where the is a lovely community to take care of the child should the player character and lover be absent.

There is a good change that a both player and lover will be out fighting for weeks at a time. They also led violent lives that likely leads to an far too early death.

Simply speaking, getting a child in the state of life where we are likely to be when we play an RPG, is irressponsible and can border on neglect.

Most often it is simply not the time and better something to be waited for in the future after the end of the game, when the player characters life has a change to be somewhat settled.

Nah, that's not convincing.  Protagonists in video games rarely have time to maintain any sort of relationship, at least not during "on screen" time.  Either say that child rearing happened off camera or address the "neglect" issue by making the character feel guility. 

And who ever said anything about the child belonging to the player and a "lover" who is on the adventuring "team"?  You've been playing too many Bioware videogames.  It could be the child of a deceased parent, or a parent who isn't on the team, a niece taken in when her parents were killed, etc.

I'm not saying children definitely need to be included.  I'm agnostic on the point.  But the problems you raise don't present any insurmountable obstacles.

[Emzamination]

Knight of Dane wrote...
God dam-

You discuss like your opinion is fact, "more importance than is necessarty," says who? You!

The love interest is not important to the story and neither should any child be. It is very minor optional content, for those who want it, as it has always been. The dwarven noble, viconia, aerie and morrigans child are all unimportant optional content for those who want it, and that is all bioware will ever let it be. You are attempting to impose grande importance on something miniscule.

I suggest reading gaider's thoughts on romantic side content.

Knight of Dane wrote...

H. Birdman wrote...

Not sure I understand the "no in-game kids" rule.

There really isn't anything to understand.

In my experience it's mostly people who are intimidated by the thought who make up this kind of "rules."

^ @lso you couldn't accept my intimidated opinion, without attempting to belittle it, so don't cry foul, if you don't get the same courteousy.

And I am well aware that there isn't acts, but that is not the only was to progress a game, have you no sense for story development at all?

Of course not, I'm no writer. tho I'm guessing you have no clue either, as you've given no suggestions in your pose.

Besides everything I say is IF there were to be children in A game and not just Dragon Age.
I'm telling you how I would like it, I do not demand a certain way it should be.

I'm not dictating how anything should be, i'm just saying bioware should emphasize on how they've always handled children in their games. The suggestion in my op is an attempt to save resources and give players something they've been requesting. You however are going against that pushing for resource heavy ideas, like models, interactions, relationship dialogue.

I'm looking at something innovative, which is not what Fable is, so no I'm noit looking for something like that, the children in Fable is just generic npc's like any other character besides yourself and your allies.
Have you not been reading what I wrote? I want, IF IT IS IN THE GAME, a child or children that has a part to play and are not just generic Npc373 and 752. I want it to be developed properly just like any important bioware character.

Feel free to make a new thread detailing your new innovative idea, if this one isn't to your liking. I'll end by redirect you to davids blog on how unimportant optional content is.

"1) Romances are a side show, not the main game. Yes,
some people like them a lot, and I have absolutely no beef with them
doing so. In fact, it’s very gratifying. While I suppose a game could
be made where the romantic plot takes a level of importance equal to
that of the critical path, that has never been the case with the games
BioWare makes. These plots are tertiary, optional content… something to
add to your enjoyment, and add to your level of emotional investment in
the characters… and that seems to get forgotten when people discuss it
at length."

^ That last line can not be stressed enough.

[Emzamination]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
That would be nice, but bioware has never and will never give the protagonist an actual kid in game. Keeping the child a post-game epilogue mention is a compromise of sorts for those who want to have a kid with their LI, but can't get one in game. It's an effective model bioware has been using for years, examples are in the op.

If designers was thinking the way you do nothing original would ever be created.

Compromises in design and development are halting excuses for not experimenting with something properly.

My compromise has been tailored to the writers stance on the matter. Take the argument up with them if you don't think they are experimenting properly.

[legbamel]

My problem with including children in-game arises from the fact that you may love other people and have relationships go sour but having a child is semi-permanent and a huge responsibility. I'd hate to be forced to role-play a crappy parent or to spend a lot of game time trying to be a good one rather than actually doing my PC's job.

A companion comes with you and is a partner. A child is a dependent. If the team is going to devote time and resources to developing optional content I'd prefer it isn't something that will make my PC feel like crap for doing what she's intended to to rather than parenting.

[Knight of Dane]

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Knight of Dane wrote...
God dam-

You discuss like your opinion is fact, "more importance than is necessarty," says who? You!

[/quote]

The love interest is not important to the story and neither should any child be. It is very minor optional content, for those who want it, as it has always been. The dwarven noble, viconia, aerie and morrigans child are all unimportant optional content for those who want it, and that is all bioware will ever let it be. You are attempting to impose grande importance on something miniscule.

I suggest reading gaider's thoughts on romantic side content.
[/quote]
And as I stated before, what I would want may not be suited for a Bioware Game but something new, but if Bioware actually makes this kind of content, I personally, would like for it to be properly made.

[quote]Emzamination wrote...
[quote]Knight of Dane wrote...
[quote]H. Birdman wrote...

Not sure I understand the "no in-game kids" rule.
[/quote]
There really isn't anything to understand.

In my experience it's mostly people who are intimidated by the thought who make up this kind of "rules."

[/quote]

^ @lso you couldn't accept my intimidated opinion, without attempting to belittle it, so don't cry foul, if you don't get the same courteousy.
[/quote]
Accepted? I accept it for what it is; opinion. If that is what you think then go right ahead, that will not, however, stop me from saying what my opinion of that opinion is. If you think I belittle it then it is because you think that I think my opinion carries more weight than yours, whcih I don't this is a public forum to discuss Dragon Age, which we are doing, I have no intention of personal dispute.

And.. I apologize in case I offend, but I am not going to try and write pleasing if something bugs me.

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote] And I am well aware that there isn't acts, but that is not the only was to progress a game, have you no sense for story development at all?[/quote]

Of course not, I'm no writer. tho I'm guessing you have no clue either, as you've given no suggestions in your pose.
[/quote]
Well not a writer, but I study writing and games design.

besides, I am not supposed to make the writers job, but I still have opinion on what I would like since that's what your OP topic was about. If you want me to write a script to make a proper suggestion then make that as a new topic.


[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Knight of Dane wrote...
Besides everything I say is IF there were to be children in A game and not just Dragon Age.
I'm telling you how I would like it, I do not demand a certain way it should be.[/quote]

I'm not dictating how anything should be, i'm just saying bioware should emphasize on how they've always handled children in their games. The suggestion in my op is an attempt to save resources and give players something they've been requesting. You however are going against that pushing for resource heavy ideas, like models, interactions, relationship dialogue.
[/quote]
I am telling you what I want because I think it is wrong of you to assume what players want.

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Knight of Dane wrote...
I'm looking at something innovative, which is not what Fable is, so no I'm noit looking for something like that, the children in Fable is just generic npc's like any other character besides yourself and your allies.
Have you not been reading what I wrote? I want, IF IT IS IN THE GAME, a child or children that has a part to play and are not just generic Npc373 and 752. I want it to be developed properly just like any important bioware character.[/quote]

Feel free to make a new thread detailing your new innovative idea, if this one isn't to your liking. I'll end by redirect you to davids blog on how unimportant optional content is.

"1) Romances are a side show, not the main game. Yes,
some people like them a lot, and I have absolutely no beef with them
doing so. In fact, it’s very gratifying. While I suppose a game could
be made where the romantic plot takes a level of importance equal to
that of the critical path, that has never been the case with the games
BioWare makes. These plots are tertiary, optional content… something to
add to your enjoyment, and add to your level of emotional investment in
the characters… and that seems to get forgotten when people discuss it
at length."

^ That last line can not be stressed enough.
[/quote]
As i said, not my job. I have plenty of threads allready where I post my ideas.

I never claimed that Romance is Important in the grand scheme of the game, so I don't know why you are telling me this.

I do however acknowlege that Bioware is one of the few game companies that innovates on story, characters and character interaction.

There is no denying that a large part of their games fanbase rest in the companions and romances, even if they are optional.

Which is what I have been wanting all along: the option to have a child and not just being told that we get it, it holds no value.

Show, don't tell.
A rule you are told over and over in writing classes.
And bioware is damn good at showing, which is why I keep playing their games.

I do not want your suggestion for a compromise to belittle what bioware and their games are.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 26 janvier 2013 - 12:55 .

[ReallyRue]

I wouldn't want it personally, but anyway, this seems like the sort of thing that should only accompany certain LIs. I don't think any of the DA2 LIs seemed like they were ready to become parents anytime soon/at all, certainly not during the game. As for DAO, Zevran certainly wasn't, nor a Warden Alistair. Morrigan's circumstances are pretty unique, but you can't replicate that for all LIs.

[Knight of Dane]

Emzamination wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
That would be nice, but bioware has never and will never give the protagonist an actual kid in game. Keeping the child a post-game epilogue mention is a compromise of sorts for those who want to have a kid with their LI, but can't get one in game. It's an effective model bioware has been using for years, examples are in the op.

If designers was thinking the way you do nothing original would ever be created.

Compromises in design and development are halting excuses for not experimenting with something properly.

My compromise has been tailored to the writers stance on the matter. Take the argument up with them if you don't think they are experimenting properly.

Why? it's not their idea to make a possible kid a slide, I do not even think they are going to go near a protag child. This a discussion of what we want, not what the writers should do, as I have said before.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 26 janvier 2013 - 12:57 .

[Emzamination]

Knight of Dane wrote...

And as I stated before, what I would want may not be suited for a
Bioware Game but something new, but if Bioware actually makes this kind
of content, I personally, would like for it to be properly made.

 
If you have new Ideas for new content, make a new thread.This just happens to be one suggesting a epilogue note.

Accepted? I accept it for what it is; opinion. If that is what you think
then go right ahead, that will not, however, stop me from saying what
my opinion of that opinion is. If you think I belittle it then it is
because you think that I think my opinion carries more weight than
yours, whcih I don't this is a public forum to discuss Dragon Age, which
we are doing, I have no intention of personal dispute.

And.. I apologize in case I offend, but I am not going to try and write pleasing if something bugs me.

 
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

Well not a writer, but I study writing and games design.

besides, I am not supposed to make the writers job, but I still have opinion on what I
would like since that's what your OP topic was about. If you want me to
write a script to make a proper suggestion then make that as a new
topic.

 
Are you serious? you attempt to reprimand me on not knowing how to implement time skips and having no sense of story development, and you know nothing yourself? Of all the... WOW.

I am telling you what I want because I think it is wrong of you to assume what players want.

The only assumption I've made is that players wanted kids with their LI and that assumption has been supported in this thread. So what's your argument?

As i said, not my job. I have plenty of threads allready where I post my ideas.

I never claimed that Romance is Important in the grand scheme of the game, so I don't know why you are telling me this.

I
do however acknowlege that Bioware is one of the few game companies
that innovates on story, characters and character interaction.

There is no denying that a large part of their games fanbase rest in the companions and romances, even if they are optional.

Which
is what I have been wanting all along: the option to have a child and
not just being told that we get it, it holds no value.

The romance subject matter is unimportant, davids stance on optional contents importance however is very valid to this argument. Optional content will never have a huge level of importance. I accept that, don't know why you can't as well, but not my prob.

Show, don't tell.
A rule you are told over and over in writing classes.
And bioware is damn good at showing, which is why I keep playing their games.

I do not want your horrid suggestion for a compromise to belittle what bioware and their games are.

L-O-L The model is biowares, I'm merely suggesting they use it more commonly.

Modifié par Emzamination, 26 janvier 2013 - 01:17 .

[Emzamination]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
That would be nice, but bioware has never and will never give the protagonist an actual kid in game. Keeping the child a post-game epilogue mention is a compromise of sorts for those who want to have a kid with their LI, but can't get one in game. It's an effective model bioware has been using for years, examples are in the op.

If designers was thinking the way you do nothing original would ever be created.

Compromises in design and development are halting excuses for not experimenting with something properly.

My compromise has been tailored to the writers stance on the matter. Take the argument up with them if you don't think they are experimenting properly.

Why? it's not their idea to make a possible kid a slide, I do not even think they are going to go near a protag child. This a discussion of what we want, not what the writers should do, as I have said before.

 lol Okay then and now I'm done with this argument. You obviously have no clue, what you're talking about.

[Emzamination]

ReallyRue wrote...

I wouldn't want it personally, but anyway, this seems like the sort of thing that should only accompany certain LIs. I don't think any of the DA2 LIs seemed like they were ready to become parents anytime soon/at all, certainly not during the game. As for DAO, Zevran certainly wasn't, nor a Warden Alistair. Morrigan's circumstances are pretty unique, but you can't replicate that for all LIs.

I heard that anders makes a comment about having kids with a female hawke during the final battle.

[Andronic0s]

Emzamination wrote...

Yes, of course there should be a epilogue, detailing post-game events.Dragon isn't just a game, it's an entire story being told, and the majority of storys have epilogues detailing the protagonist actions post-story.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 did not had any Epilogue scenes and they where just fine as they where, if you need the writers to spell out for you what happens once the game is over that's perfectly fine but they are far from required since people can use their imagination to fill in blanks in whatever way fits their character best.

Emzamination wrote...

@lso, no it is not a given, that a couple had kids. When has that ever been true?

Pretty much since the beginning of time, unless you know a lot of couples that have been practicing unprotected sex for years and remain childless, I think they normally go to the doctor at that point.

[atum]

If I get divorced do I have to pay invisible alimony?

[In Exile]

Andronic0s wrote...
Pretty much since the beginning of time, unless you know a lot of couples that have been practicing unprotected sex for years and remain childless, I think they normally go to the doctor at that point.

There are certain kinds of conditions that aren't harmful to either party that can prevent pregancy in most cases, without leading to sterility. 

To put it simply, it's totally possible to have unprotected sex for decades and not have kids - just unlikely.