Maddok900 wrote...
You are horribly wrong, I mean really, what the hell did you smoke before playing the game?
Illusive Man's indoctrination base precedes the completion of his own indoctrination process. Reapers give toys to their top agents until they are needed, just like Sovereign letting Saren to research indoctrination. When the influence of the subject is necessary, they take away everything they own and make the agent a loyal servant with one sharp move, such as Saren being implanted and Illusive man being called to Citadel.
What game were you playing? Shepard was the one who was taking away TIM's toys, not the reapers. If TIM's research was not threatening to the Reapers, why did they attack the base? They supposedly already had control of TIM at that point, seems like a waste of resources to me especially considering that Shepard would sweep in, take the research, and Alliance resources would be wasted trying to implement it into some kind of useable plan despite it being mostly worthless.
Maddok900 wrote...
Illusive Man did not find a way to control the Reapers either, he was not even close to that. He found a way to partly control the Husk infantry in a small radius, and that was it. They did not capture him, he was their informant, the Illusive Man was called to citadel and told them about the Crucible. That was the reason of Citadel being moved to a more secure place, Earth.
He was their slave. Another word for slave might be.... captive. If he was not even close to finding aw ay to control the Reapers then once again, why did they try to destroy the research?
I can think of a million billion safer places to hide the Citadel than one of the largest conflict zones in the entire galaxy wide conflict. Earth was not secure, obviously. There are plenty (literally unlimited, if such a thing is possible) of places the Reapers could have hid the citadel where it would have literally never been found... but they did not hide it in one of those places... they put it in the one place everyone was watching, or did you miss the whole story about Shepard gathering allies to go take back Earth?
Maddok900 wrote...
Go see the final dialogue with the guy again, he has no damn idea about how to control the Reapers. He is just certain that Crucible will allow him to do that in some way, it's plain manipulation to keep him in line. The Catalyst tells you that it was not possible for Illusive Man to become a threat for the Reapersin any way, because they already controlled him.
Yeah there's just one problem with your example here... TIM was right. The crucible did allow Shepard to take control of the Reapers. Not in some way, but complete dominance... which is actually what TIM had said it would do despite your flawed recollection. In my game I followed his advice and got control of the Reapers... and then wondered why the Reapers let him tell me how to do it.
Maddok900 wrote...
Sabbatine wrote...
The Reapers intelligence isn't really debatable at this point because having played the game we know that three out of the four endings are a direct result of their profound stupidity, though arguably one of those endings kind of works out for them. The fourth ending is a direct result of Shepard being able to stop them in one of three ways but choosing not to.
You have to back that arguement, you are not making any sense.
My apologies, I've been posting under the assumption that you have actually played the game and know how it ends. Since you apparently haven't, here's a brief spoiler free explanation. The endings are:
1. Shepard does something, the Reapers are neutralized.
2. Shepard does something, the Reapers are neutralized.
3. Shepard does something, the Reapers are neutralized.
4. Shepard has the opportunity to do any of the previous three things but chooses to do nothing, the reapers are not neutralized.
The Reapers have no say at all in their fate, Shepard is literally the most powerful person in the galaxy at that moment and the Reapers can only win with Shepard's permission.
Maddok900 wrote...
Sabbatine wrote...
If by "didn't even get close to defeating the invasion" you really mean "they built the crucible but infighting prevented them from deploying it" then I guess you are correct, but they had it. They compiled all the data and built it and would have deployed it and possibly (probably) beaten the Reapers were it not for the Reapers getting pretty lucky.
No, they did not build the crucible, Javik tells you that it was never finished. They were sabotaged by indoctrinated Reaper agents, I don't see "luck" being involved in any of that.
The crucible was constructed. The sabotage Javik was talking about was during the deployment phase of the constructed crucible. One faction was indoctrinated and wanted to use the crucible to control the Reapers and were willing to fight and kill the other faction that wanted to use it to kill the Reapers. Too bad they didn't let the indoctrinated Faction control the Reapers, it would have worked apparently.
Maddok900 wrote...
Sabbatine wrote...
The plans had many origins but he Protheans compiled the data, put everything together, filled in the blanks, and built a working crucible. When they failed, they once again compiled the data and stored it in many different hiding places with the hope that either their people would survive the reaping, or other races would someday find the information and use it to succeed where they had failed.
Now you are starting to make things up. Again, they never built a working Crucible, they were sabotaged by a Cerberus-like indoctrinated faction. Keep in mind that the Crucible needs the Citadel, even if the remnants of the Empire could manage to build the damn thing, how the hell do you think they would get to the Catalyst?
How would they get it to the Catalyst? Well the Reapers apparently store the Catalyst in the most convenient place possible for their opposition to access... like in Earth's orbit for a more recent example.
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