110 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Well, that memorial scene is supposed to be Shepard's... of course it's not happy.  The creator of the mod didn't really have any other material to use for his modifications, so he used what he coud: but his intetnion was to make a happy ending, wasn't it? 

From the description of the mod:

- You will see your Shepard reunited with his crew (and even some interaction unique to your LI if the LI is part of the Normandy crew). While they don't exactly have a party, now it is a real bitter-sweet ending with the emphasis on "sweet" rather than on "bitter"

Relevant part bolded.

So no, the "happy ending" part of the title is ironic.  It's still supposed to be bittersweet, just with more "sweet" added

Modifié par iakus, 25 janvier 2013 - 08:26 .

[Dr_Extrem]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

It removes plot to like the point of what the reapers are about and removes the deeper meanings of everything and after watching it I'm glad Bioware didn't change the endings to much I feel not every story needs to end on a completely happy note. Sometimes things are bitter sweet or kinda depressing game's story lines shouldn't be afraid to reflect that more often

If it has to be tacked on in the last ten minutes, it's not that important a plot point.

Besides, I never cared about the Reapers' motives.   I preferred Vigil's analysis anyway "In the end, what does it matter?  Your survival depends on stopping the Reapers, not in understanding them"

And if you think MEHEM ended on a completely happy not, I have to wonder what you find a tragic note 

I mean, did you see anyone smiling in that memorial scene?

Well, that memorial scene is supposed to be Shepard's... of course it's not happy.  The creator of the mod didn't really have any other material to use for his modifications, so he used what he coud: but his intetnion was to make a happy ending, wasn't it? 

and the creator was criticised my most of us, because of the poor choice of the name. the mehem is not happy .. it is only happier.

[xAmilli0n]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

it a classic mentor/scholar relationship.

anderson is the seasoned veteran, who has seen it all - shepard represents the new generation. the young learnes from the old. in the original endings, andersons death is heavily overshadowed by the events that follow. anderson is degraded to the simple stooge, that has no other purpose in the endings, than to participate in the conversation with tim/shepard. he dies, because the catalyst-scene is a "one man show".

if you kill a meaningful person in the plot, it has to have an important impact on either the story, the character or the audience. the effect on shepard only lasts 5 minutes and the effect on the audience is nullified, the mooment shepard chooses an ending. in short, andserson death means nothing - it is just there, to kill him. the effect on the story is not there at all. it is the end.

Still playing devil's advocate.  Does the game ever really make the player care about this relation?  Maybe Anderson's death felt less impactful without the MEHEM because other than telling us Anderson was essentially a father figure, it was never shown and expanded on?

[BD Manchild]

Wow... Did you recently graduate in Artsy-Fartsy 101, Mr. Poncey McPretentiouspants?

[Fawx9]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

it a classic mentor/scholar relationship.

anderson is the seasoned veteran, who has seen it all - shepard represents the new generation. the young learnes from the old. in the original endings, andersons death is heavily overshadowed by the events that follow. anderson is degraded to the simple stooge, that has no other purpose in the endings, than to participate in the conversation with tim/shepard. he dies, because the catalyst-scene is a "one man show".

if you kill a meaningful person in the plot, it has to have an important impact on either the story, the character or the audience. the effect on shepard only lasts 5 minutes and the effect on the audience is nullified, the mooment shepard chooses an ending. in short, andserson death means nothing - it is just there, to kill him. the effect on the story is not there at all. it is the end.

Still playing devil's advocate.  Does the game ever really make the player care about this relation?  Maybe Anderson's death felt less impactful without the MEHEM because other than telling us Anderson was essentially a father figure, it was never shown and expanded on?

It could be seen depending on your Shepards personality through ME1.(Havern't played ME2 in a while so wont comment on it)

After you got back to the ship and especially after get it, you had multiple chances to talk to him about his past and how he feels about his current situation. You also have new conversations after every main story mission, culminating in him helping you.

So I'd say theres at least a 50% chance people would see Anderson as more than just a higher ranking officer you reported to.

[Shepard108278]

Faust1979 wrote...

Talk about dumbing something down, it leaves you with nothing to think about and kinda ruins the tone of the story and it takes out any choice you have on how the game ends which is something that haters seem to complain about. Now this ending leaves you with an even more lack of choice.  I prefer the metaphysical thought provoking dark but kinda happy endings.

I for one am with you. Agree 100%.

[Mcfly616]

Yeah, I was watching it and thinking: "hmm this space battle is pretty good for a fan mod."

And then they go get Shepard in the shuttle while he's standing on a superweapon that's about to fire.....


Yes....SOOO much more believable than the Extended Cut endings......not


It's pretty bad. But everybody has their tastes.

[BD Manchild]

If liking MEHEM makes me stupid (as some appear to insinuate) then just call me Retard McSpackypants, but I'd much rather be stupid and enjoying myself than my huge, genius mind be insulted by Bioware's idiotic and ill-fitting attempts to be "deep".

Modifié par BD Manchild, 25 janvier 2013 - 08:37 .

[Iakus]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Still playing devil's advocate.  Does the game ever really make the player care about this relation?  Maybe Anderson's death felt less impactful without the MEHEM because other than telling us Anderson was essentially a father figure, it was never shown and expanded on?

-Anderson was literally the first ally Shepard had against Saren.
-The first person to believe the beacon visions.
-He was the strongest advocate of the Anderson/Udina/Hackett triumverate who recommended Shepard being put forward for Spectre status.
- He put himself on the line breaking the Normandy out of lockdown
-In ME2, he stands up to the Council defending Shepard's good name, even though he harbors doubts that Cerberus may be manipulating Shepard
-If he was made Councilor, he offers to renew Shepard's Spectre status on his own authority, circumventing the new Council
-In ME3 he outright states he trusts Shepard, despite everything that's happened and Shepard currently being on the outs wit the lliance
-He personally reinstates Shepard's commision as an Alliance officer

This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head.

[GimmeDaGun]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

i was lazy at school - unchallenged. i did not make my abitur. no abi - no university.

instead, i started an apprenticeship and became a lab technician. ... now i am synthesizing high level organic compounds and show young PhDs, where they missed their lessons and how not to blow off their hands.

It's still not late all. Go for the university, if you can. Though I've heard that your educational system in Germany is slightly different than ours in Hungary and that you are kind of predestined by how you achieve in elementary and grammar school... as far as I know you have schools for different levels, and there's no way you can go to the university if you attend to schools below a certain level... correct me if I'm wrong. I had many German friends in medical school who bypassed this problem by coming to Hungary and started their studies here (med school is pretty hard-core and nerve wrecking here, but they welcome those who are willing to pay up with no strings attached - well, that's an exaggeration, but I think you get what I mean), and after two years they can go back to Germany and the German med-schools will accept them as their students. So stupid: these guys are smart enough but can't go and apply for the school they want to because they weren't that studious when they were children.

Come and study in Hungary! ;) It's a nice enough country with nice people... though the beer you get here is not as good as it is in Germany. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 25 janvier 2013 - 08:39 .

[Dr_Extrem]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

it a classic mentor/scholar relationship.

anderson is the seasoned veteran, who has seen it all - shepard represents the new generation. the young learnes from the old. in the original endings, andersons death is heavily overshadowed by the events that follow. anderson is degraded to the simple stooge, that has no other purpose in the endings, than to participate in the conversation with tim/shepard. he dies, because the catalyst-scene is a "one man show".

if you kill a meaningful person in the plot, it has to have an important impact on either the story, the character or the audience. the effect on shepard only lasts 5 minutes and the effect on the audience is nullified, the mooment shepard chooses an ending. in short, andserson death means nothing - it is just there, to kill him. the effect on the story is not there at all. it is the end.

Still playing devil's advocate.  Does the game ever really make the player care about this relation?  Maybe Anderson's death felt less impactful without the MEHEM because other than telling us Anderson was essentially a father figure, it was never shown and expanded on?

i really cared for anderson ... even if he acts strange in me3. to me, this relationship is portayed very good. i have an older collegue at work and he acts as my defacto mentor. in additon, this person became a dear friend.

to me, the relationship between shepard and anderson felt very natural and therefore, i cared. his death in the original ending was bitter but well executed. sadly, it was overshadowed (reasons above).

shepard mourning the loss of his/her mentor and friend was very powerful for me.

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Yeah, I was watching it and thinking: "hmm this space battle is pretty good for a fan mod."

And then they go get Shepard in the shuttle while he's standing on a superweapon that's about to fire.....


Yes....SOOO much more believable than the Extended Cut endings......not


It's pretty bad. But everybody has their tastes.

1) Still a work in progress.  the rescue scenes may be improved on in later versions.

2) Less believable than a device that can forcibly rewrite the DNA of every living being in the galaxy?  Really?

[GimmeDaGun]

BD Manchild wrote...

Wow... Did you recently graduate in Artsy-Fartsy 101, Mr. Poncey McPretentiouspants?

Pfff... wasn't even amusing... <_< try harder. 

[Bill Casey]

iakus wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Still playing devil's advocate.  Does the game ever really make the player care about this relation?  Maybe Anderson's death felt less impactful without the MEHEM because other than telling us Anderson was essentially a father figure, it was never shown and expanded on?

-Anderson was literally the first ally Shepard had against Saren.
-The first person to believe the beacon visions.
-He was the strongest advocate of the Anderson/Udina/Hackett triumverate who recommended Shepard being put forward for Spectre status.
- He put himself on the line breaking the Normandy out of lockdown
-In ME2, he stands up to the Council defending Shepard's good name, even though he harbors doubts that Cerberus may be manipulating Shepard
-If he was made Councilor, he offers to renew Shepard's Spectre status on his own authority, circumventing the new Council
-In ME3 he outright states he trusts Shepard, despite everything that's happened and Shepard currently being on the outs wit the lliance
-He personally reinstates Shepard's commision as an Alliance officer

This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head.

He picks you up and hands you a gun at the beginning of ME3, and then personally saves you from falling to your death...

Hell, you can hug him with a Paragon Interrupt when you see him again on Earth...

[GimmeDaGun]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

it a classic mentor/scholar relationship.

anderson is the seasoned veteran, who has seen it all - shepard represents the new generation. the young learnes from the old. in the original endings, andersons death is heavily overshadowed by the events that follow. anderson is degraded to the simple stooge, that has no other purpose in the endings, than to participate in the conversation with tim/shepard. he dies, because the catalyst-scene is a "one man show".

if you kill a meaningful person in the plot, it has to have an important impact on either the story, the character or the audience. the effect on shepard only lasts 5 minutes and the effect on the audience is nullified, the mooment shepard chooses an ending. in short, andserson death means nothing - it is just there, to kill him. the effect on the story is not there at all. it is the end.

Still playing devil's advocate.  Does the game ever really make the player care about this relation?  Maybe Anderson's death felt less impactful without the MEHEM because other than telling us Anderson was essentially a father figure, it was never shown and expanded on?

i really cared for anderson ... even if he acts strange in me3. to me, this relationship is portayed very good. i have an older collegue at work and he acts as my defacto mentor. in additon, this person became a dear friend.

to me, the relationship between shepard and anderson felt very natural and therefore, i cared. his death in the original ending was bitter but well executed. sadly, it was overshadowed (reasons above).

shepard mourning the loss of his/her mentor and friend was very powerful for me.

I love the Anderson-Shepard relationship too, but in MEHEM I feel that scene very forced and out of place. But that's just me.

[Mr.House]

Bill Casey wrote...

iakus wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Still playing devil's advocate.  Does the game ever really make the player care about this relation?  Maybe Anderson's death felt less impactful without the MEHEM because other than telling us Anderson was essentially a father figure, it was never shown and expanded on?

-Anderson was literally the first ally Shepard had against Saren.
-The first person to believe the beacon visions.
-He was the strongest advocate of the Anderson/Udina/Hackett triumverate who recommended Shepard being put forward for Spectre status.
- He put himself on the line breaking the Normandy out of lockdown
-In ME2, he stands up to the Council defending Shepard's good name, even though he harbors doubts that Cerberus may be manipulating Shepard
-If he was made Councilor, he offers to renew Shepard's Spectre status on his own authority, circumventing the new Council
-In ME3 he outright states he trusts Shepard, despite everything that's happened and Shepard currently being on the outs wit the lliance
-He personally reinstates Shepard's commision as an Alliance officer

This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head.

He picks you up and hands you a gun at the beginning of ME3, and then personally saves you from falling to your death...

Hell, you can hug him with a Paragon Interrupt when you see him again on Earth...

That interupt gave me so many feels

[Dr_Extrem]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

i was lazy at school - unchallenged. i did not make my abitur. no abi - no university.

instead, i started an apprenticeship and became a lab technician. ... now i am synthesizing high level organic compounds and show young PhDs, where they missed their lessons and how not to blow off their hands.

It's still not late all. Go for the university, if you can. Though I've heard that your educational system in Germany is slightly different than ours in Hungary and that you are kind of predestined by how you achieve in elementary and grammar school... as far as I know you have schools for different levels, and there's no way you can go to the university if you attend to schools below a certain level... correct me if I'm wrong. I had many German friends in medical school who bypassed this problem by coming to Hungary and started their studies here (med school is pretty hard-core and nerve wrecking here, but they welcome those who are willing to pay up with no strings attached - well, that's an exaggeration, but I think you get what I mean), and after two years they can go back to Germany and the German med-schools will accept them as their students. So stupid: these guys are smart enough but can't go and apply for the school they want to because they weren't that studious when they were children.

Come and study in Hungary! ;) It's a nice enough country with nice people... though the beer you get here is not as good as it is in Germany. 

... i got over it. ... i am 30 and i know that i will be too old for the "market", when i get my degree. besides .. "my family had bills and i needed the money, a corporate jobs brings in."


the beer in germany is good .. but irish ale and stout are my real love.

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

I love the Anderson-Shepard relationship too, but in MEHEM I feel that scene very forced and out of place. But that's just me.

Given I found every moment of the Catalyst scene forced and out of place, I think that's more than even 

[xAmilli0n]

Glad to get people talking.

iakus wrote...

-Anderson was literally the first ally Shepard had against Saren.
-The first person to believe the beacon visions.
-He was the strongest advocate of the Anderson/Udina/Hackett triumverate who recommended Shepard being put forward for Spectre status.
- He put himself on the line breaking the Normandy out of lockdown
-In ME2, he stands up to the Council defending Shepard's good name, even though he harbors doubts that Cerberus may be manipulating Shepard
-If he was made Councilor, he offers to renew Shepard's Spectre status on his own authority, circumventing the new Council
-In ME3 he outright states he trusts Shepard, despite everything that's happened and Shepard currently being on the outs wit the lliance
-He personally reinstates Shepard's commision as an Alliance officer

This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head.

But does that make him a father figure, or simply a faithful ally?

Note, I simply enjoy getting peoples reaction, don't take this as an attack on your story.

[Dr_Extrem]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Glad to get people talking.

iakus wrote...

-Anderson was literally the first ally Shepard had against Saren.
-The first person to believe the beacon visions.
-He was the strongest advocate of the Anderson/Udina/Hackett triumverate who recommended Shepard being put forward for Spectre status.
- He put himself on the line breaking the Normandy out of lockdown
-In ME2, he stands up to the Council defending Shepard's good name, even though he harbors doubts that Cerberus may be manipulating Shepard
-If he was made Councilor, he offers to renew Shepard's Spectre status on his own authority, circumventing the new Council
-In ME3 he outright states he trusts Shepard, despite everything that's happened and Shepard currently being on the outs wit the lliance
-He personally reinstates Shepard's commision as an Alliance officer

This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head.

But does that make him a father figure, or simply a faithful ally?

Note, I simply enjoy getting peoples reaction, don't take this as an attack on your story.

why should i?

you accept, that people have different tastes. no mod can fix mass effect 3s writing. it is not interlectually stimulating .. mehem at least, stimulates me emotionally. that has tp be enough.


to me, he is not really a father figure but a fatherly (close) friend and staunch ally. his postition as a mentor cements my strongly positve feelings for anderson.

if you are keen on symbols, you could see a change of generations in the mehem ending. anderson dies and shepard carries on his torch. the scholar becomes the master.

[MrStoob]

Why all the hate for a bit of animated fan fiction anyway?

Feel I must add, I am not belittling the good and hard work of the MEHEM people, but boiled down that's what it is.

Modifié par MrStoob, 25 janvier 2013 - 09:32 .

[Iakus]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Glad to get people talking.

iakus wrote...

-Anderson was literally the first ally Shepard had against Saren.
-The first person to believe the beacon visions.
-He was the strongest advocate of the Anderson/Udina/Hackett triumverate who recommended Shepard being put forward for Spectre status.
- He put himself on the line breaking the Normandy out of lockdown
-In ME2, he stands up to the Council defending Shepard's good name, even though he harbors doubts that Cerberus may be manipulating Shepard
-If he was made Councilor, he offers to renew Shepard's Spectre status on his own authority, circumventing the new Council
-In ME3 he outright states he trusts Shepard, despite everything that's happened and Shepard currently being on the outs wit the lliance
-He personally reinstates Shepard's commision as an Alliance officer

This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head.

But does that make him a father figure, or simply a faithful ally?

Note, I simply enjoy getting peoples reaction, don't take this as an attack on your story.

Both.

Anderson is older, higher ranked, and more experienced than Shepard.  He "knows how things work", gives advice to Shepard, provides teh benefit of that experience,  but in the end stands aside and lets him/her find their own path.  As a good father does for his child

[Dr_Extrem]

MrStoob wrote...

Why all the hate for a bit of animated fan fiction anyway?

Feel I must add, I am not belittling the good and hard work of the MEHEM people, but boiled down that's what it is.

boiled down, to concentrate the extract. 

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

OK.

[Spiritwolf1]

BD Manchild wrote...

If liking MEHEM makes me stupid (as some appear to insinuate) then just call me Retard McSpackypants, but I'd much rather be stupid and enjoying myself than my huge, genius mind be insulted by Bioware's idiotic and ill-fitting attempts to be "deep".

+1

I liked the original endings but I also like this. I won't use it but I like it. I also like a lot of the fan fiction endings that I have read.  And I see where BD come from in this post and the other one he made and it actually struck me as funny. I for one don't need a lot of thought provoking in my off time to enjoy myself, not that I don't like it but it's not the end all and be all to everything. I like stuff I can enjoy and not have to put a lot of thought into some times. I am probably one of the few that really have little complaints if none about the series, but people tend to make people whose views differ from those look like idiots by trying to outword them and I think BD just caught on to it...

Some one said it best, if you don't like it then why bother with it, leave those that did to enjoy it.