94 réponses à ce sujet

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Cyonan wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

Must quote myself 

Stahlhammer wrote...

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

It wouldn't be that hard. I did some work on an effective health spreadsheet a while back.

On this note, I had the idea(by which I really mean that ValorOfArms suggested it) of putting this information up on a website that isn't google docs or the Mass Effect wiki(They don't really like it when I prove them wrong).

It'd be kind of like Nardia's class build tooler except my own url(I already pay for hosting so it's not like it's costing me money), and I could code my own tools such as an effective health calculator with this.

Is this a thing people would actually be interested in me setting up?

This site also has some useful stuff for effective health, though I don't know how often it gets updated(they do have Collectors): http://anthill.thessianhaze.com/

Sometimes I check your profile daily to see if you made a new post/topic with new information on the game that's about 10x as informative as anything avaiable in-game or even by the developers themselves.

In short: Yes, please! And you're awesome for all the work you've done so far on this game

[INVADERONE]

Hi Cyonian. I have been meaning to do some kind of tutorial of some sort on DR but I didnt have the data. Would you be interested in helping out and doing something together? I would say over 90% of my subs are not from the forums so there are many more gamers who would benefit from your expertise. Hit me up if you'd be interested and thank you for always posting such useful information. Props to you sir.

[INVADERONE]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

Must quote myself 

Stahlhammer wrote...

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

It wouldn't be that hard. I did some work on an effective health spreadsheet a while back.

On this note, I had the idea(by which I really mean that ValorOfArms suggested it) of putting this information up on a website that isn't google docs or the Mass Effect wiki(They don't really like it when I prove them wrong).

It'd be kind of like Nardia's class build tooler except my own url(I already pay for hosting so it's not like it's costing me money), and I could code my own tools such as an effective health calculator with this.

Is this a thing people would actually be interested in me setting up?

This site also has some useful stuff for effective health, though I don't know how often it gets updated(they do have Collectors): http://anthill.thessianhaze.com/

Sometimes I check your profile daily to see if you made a new post/topic with new information on the game that's about 10x as informative as anything avaiable in-game or even by the developers themselves.

In short: Yes, please! And you're awesome for all the work you've done so far on this game

I'd be willing to sponsor you Cyonian if you'd like. I can purchase the domain,hosting, etc for you today if you want. I'll also add you as a sponsored channel on my youtube page if you have one or want to start one. I like what you do and its very helpful. I think you should definitely go for doing your own thing where you add more depth to the game as you have been doing so far. 

[megawug]

Cyonan, yes, please post a thread if/when you have the website up. I think many of us here would like to bookmark it for reference.

[vonSlash]

I'm no math expert, but this looks credible to me.

However, this does make me wonder...why make the formula needlessly complex when it would have been far easier for both programmers and players to use the formula DamageDealt*(1-PlayerDamageResistanceSum)=DamageTaken, and simply scale the DR %s up or down to achieve the same balance that the complex formula does?

[SpockLives]

I'm not a math person, so that formula is a bit much for me. Does cover actually grant 40% DR for attacks from the front like people say?

In other words, does cover give 40% DR or does NOT being in cover cause enemies to do 40% more damage than previously thought? Because if cover grants DR, then the Justicar should be able to hit full damage immunity from Reave + Biotic Sphere + cover bonus. That doesn't sound right.

[sobit]

SpockLives wrote...

I'm not a math person, so that formula is a bit much for me. Does cover actually grant 40% DR for attacks from the front like people say?

In other words, does cover give 40% DR or does NOT being in cover cause enemies to do 40% more damage than previously thought? Because if cover grants DR, then the Justicar should be able to hit full damage immunity from Reave + Biotic Sphere + cover bonus. That doesn't sound right.

short: Yes, cover does grant 40% DR.

long: However, the game works in such a way, that you actually need 140% DR to negate all damage. So you can either try to get 140% DR from powers such as Tech Armor, Reave, Bubble and stay out of cover and take no damage, Or you accumulate 100% DR from powers and get into cover and take no damage.

[Deathshroud09]

I have an entire bookmark folder dedicated to game mechanics...so a site like that would be invaluable, if you get it up ill pm you the URL's of the threads just in case you don't already have them.

[Deerber]

sobit wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

I'm not a math person, so that formula is a bit much for me. Does cover actually grant 40% DR for attacks from the front like people say?

In other words, does cover give 40% DR or does NOT being in cover cause enemies to do 40% more damage than previously thought? Because if cover grants DR, then the Justicar should be able to hit full damage immunity from Reave + Biotic Sphere + cover bonus. That doesn't sound right.

short: Yes, cover does grant 40% DR.

long: However, the game works in such a way, that you actually need 140% DR to negate all damage. So you can either try to get 140% DR from powers such as Tech Armor, Reave, Bubble and stay out of cover and take no damage, Or you accumulate 100% DR from powers and get into cover and take no damage.

Your answer is a bit misleading, Sobit. The answer is, actually, that no, staying in cover doesn't grant DR. It's being out of cover that makes the enemy do 40% more damage. It's a different mechanism from DR and that's the reason why a Justicar with Reave + Sphere + cover cannot become immune to damage.

[Hausner85]

Bump. Great work Cyonan. Keep it coming.

[Brohak]

Wait, so there's actually something you didn't know ? My whole life is a lie.

[Deerber]

By the way Cyonan, I'm pretty sure you made some typos in the formula. Better correct them or people won't understand

[Katinka]

So the incorrect assumption was that cover gives a reduction in damage when actually being out of cover gives a penalty of taking extra damage.

[BridgeBurner]

Krogan Sentinel Rage mode @ 70% damage reduction actually only equals 50% damage reduction...

To quote Liandri Robots, from a balanced and well designed mulitplayer game called unreal tournament:

"ANOTHER FLAWED DESIGN"

I lose more and more faith in lolbiower every time I read something in regards to their game design.

[MajorStupidity]

Your work is greatly appreciated as always Cyonan your testing has really been invaluable for some of the builds I run in game so thank you!

[RaptorSolutions]

Just to check but does in cover DR mean as long as you are in cover? How does it affect being flanked or putting your head up to shoot people?

[Deerber]

Nemy Montoya wrote...

So the incorrect assumption was that cover gives a reduction in damage when actually being out of cover gives a penalty of taking extra damage.

No, that much was already known. The incorrect assumption was that DR is actually 75% of what you read in the in-game descriptions always. Cyonan has now discovered that it only works that way out of cover, and that when you're in cover you get the full 100% of the DR you read.

[me0120]

Deerber wrote...

sobit wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

I'm not a math person, so that formula is a bit much for me. Does cover actually grant 40% DR for attacks from the front like people say?

In other words, does cover give 40% DR or does NOT being in cover cause enemies to do 40% more damage than previously thought? Because if cover grants DR, then the Justicar should be able to hit full damage immunity from Reave + Biotic Sphere + cover bonus. That doesn't sound right.

short: Yes, cover does grant 40% DR.

long: However, the game works in such a way, that you actually need 140% DR to negate all damage. So you can either try to get 140% DR from powers such as Tech Armor, Reave, Bubble and stay out of cover and take no damage, Or you accumulate 100% DR from powers and get into cover and take no damage.

Your answer is a bit misleading, Sobit. The answer is, actually, that no, staying in cover doesn't grant DR. It's being out of cover that makes the enemy do 40% more damage. It's a different mechanism from DR and that's the reason why a Justicar with Reave + Sphere + cover cannot become immune to damage.

If that's the case should the Typhoon be retested with external damage reduction to see if it does in fact have damage reduction instead of just reverting to base damage.

It may be that the Typhoon does have damage reduction like BioWare said, but it overwrites whatever mechanic is associated with cover reduction.

[Deerber]

me0120 wrote...

Deerber wrote...

sobit wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

I'm not a math person, so that formula is a bit much for me. Does cover actually grant 40% DR for attacks from the front like people say?

In other words, does cover give 40% DR or does NOT being in cover cause enemies to do 40% more damage than previously thought? Because if cover grants DR, then the Justicar should be able to hit full damage immunity from Reave + Biotic Sphere + cover bonus. That doesn't sound right.

short: Yes, cover does grant 40% DR.

long: However, the game works in such a way, that you actually need 140% DR to negate all damage. So you can either try to get 140% DR from powers such as Tech Armor, Reave, Bubble and stay out of cover and take no damage, Or you accumulate 100% DR from powers and get into cover and take no damage.

Your answer is a bit misleading, Sobit. The answer is, actually, that no, staying in cover doesn't grant DR. It's being out of cover that makes the enemy do 40% more damage. It's a different mechanism from DR and that's the reason why a Justicar with Reave + Sphere + cover cannot become immune to damage.

If that's the case should the Typhoon be retested with external damage reduction to see if it does in fact have damage reduction instead of just reverting to base damage.

It may be that the Typhoon does have damage reduction like BioWare said, but it overwrites whatever mechanic is associated with cover reduction.

Yes, the Typhoon DR might benefit from another test, probably. I do not know the specifics of how it was tested before though, so I'll leave to Cyonan to answer that question with the best possible accuracy.

[sobit]

Annomander wrote...

Krogan Sentinel Rage mode @ 70% damage reduction actually only equals 50% damage reduction...

To quote Liandri Robots, from a balanced and well designed mulitplayer game called unreal tournament:

"ANOTHER FLAWED DESIGN"

I lose more and more faith in lolbiower every time I read something in regards to their game design.

anno, I love you. Let's play a game of UT sometime, okay?

[sobit]

RaptorSolutions wrote...

Just to check but does in cover DR mean as long as you are in cover? How does it affect being flanked or putting your head up to shoot people?

I guess It affects you as well when being flanked or you put your head up, basically as long as you stick to something. otherwise there's no way you can take damage, and therefore this mechanic would be pointless.

[Katinka]

Deerber wrote...

Nemy Montoya wrote...

So the incorrect assumption was that cover gives a reduction in damage when actually being out of cover gives a penalty of taking extra damage.

No, that much was already known. The incorrect assumption was that DR is actually 75% of what you read in the in-game descriptions always. Cyonan has now discovered that it only works that way out of cover, and that when you're in cover you get the full 100% of the DR you read.

What I got from Cyonan's post was that DR does exactly what it says at all times but is a percentage of base damage rather than a percentage of damage taken.  So if an enemy does 100 damage to you in cover and then you switch on your 40% reduction it will do 60.  Out of cover the enemy will do 140 normally and 100 damage when you activate a 40% damage reduction.  In both causes the 40% damage reduction is 40% of 100 and not 40% of 140.

[sobit]

Deerber wrote...

sobit wrote...

short: Yes, cover does grant 40% DR.

long: However, the game works in such a way, that you actually need 140% DR to negate all damage. So you can either try to get 140% DR from powers such as Tech Armor, Reave, Bubble and stay out of cover and take no damage, Or you accumulate 100% DR from powers and get into cover and take no damage.

Your answer is a bit misleading, Sobit. The answer is, actually, that no, staying in cover doesn't grant DR. It's being out of cover that makes the enemy do 40% more damage. It's a different mechanism from DR and that's the reason why a Justicar with Reave + Sphere + cover cannot become immune to damage.

guess what? I knew it was misleading, that's why I added the long answer. and no, I stand by my opinion, cover gives you DR. here's why:

as I stated before and as you have already figured out yourself, the correct equation is not:

((enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier) * cover_bonus) - ((damage_damage * difficulty_modifiers) * (1 - DR)) = final_damage

but:

((enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier) * cover_bonus) - ((enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier) * (DR)) = final_damage

which can be rearranged to:

enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier * (cover_bonus - DR) = final_damage

now we can change this (cover_bonus - DR) to (1.4 - new_cover_bonus - DR), where "new_cover_bonus" is zero when out of cover and 0.4 when in cover, and as such works exactly the way the other DR is accounted for.

the only thing that could be misleading is the fact, that with 60% DR from powers and 40% DR from cover you'd get 100% and one might think this renders you invulnerable. but I stated in my not even so long answer, that you actuall need 140% DR for that. So you can either get 100% and the remaining 40% from cover, or just 140% from powers and stay out of cover.

EDIT: of course this also Implies that without cover or DR, the standard final_damage is not (enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier), but (enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier * 1.4), so there Is and additional 1.4 modifier in there. I'd rather regard being out of cover as the standard condition, and being in cover giving you DR, that's why I formulated it this way.

there you go, try the soufflé, I'm here all week.

no actually I'm not, going to Tokyo on monday.

hell

f*cking

yes.

Modifié par sobit, 26 janvier 2013 - 05:55 .

[BlackDahlia424]

I still think this is incredibly lame. You should get the listed DR in or out of hard cover - period.

[sobit]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

I still think this is incredibly lame. You should get the listed DR in or out of hard cover - period.

I completely agree.