159 réponses à ce sujet

[Destructo-Bot]

Blind2Society wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

You are looking at the Valiant in the same light as the BW and expecting the gun to be the majority of your damage output. You need to look at the Valiant as an ammo power delivery system and concentrate on tech burst with it. AOE damage > single target damage. Throw on both piercing mods to hit multiple targets in a fresh spawn, then detonate disruptor/incendiary ammo with a proxy mine and repeat to clear spawns. Clean the bosses up with headshots (they'll still be under the proxy debuff.) The only thing you should be KILLING with headshots is bosses. Headshot the mooks for the damage bonus, but get the kill with a tech burst.

That is a whole lot of proving absolutely nothing. Saying a gun is a good ammo power delivery system is pretty much saying the gun is garbage. And your picture, means nothing, especially because you clearly used an inf.

An infiltrator using a sniper rifle... say it ain't so

The Falcon is a good ammo delivery system, doesn't do a lot of damage on it's own but its a fine weapon when used with skill and good tactics. Just because a weapon doesn't hit like the claymore doesn't make it "garbage".

The picture shows that the Valiant on an infiltrator is just fine on gold. I've run the same setup with friends and it's just as good. Here's a platinum screenshot with ALL infiltrators:



Yep... pure garbage.

Have some more:

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 26 janvier 2013 - 11:27 .

[Blarg]

Hyperglide wrote...

Mine just needs more upgrades. I only have it at level II. I'm sure it's a beast at X.

I have it at VIII and it's insane.

[WizeMan305]

I wish it were a bit lighter, around the same weight as the indra and viper really. The damage is fine for other classes such as engineers, but when it comes to use on an Infiltrator anything the Valiant does the BW does better. People say the Valiant has higher DPS when you consider reload time and what not but DPS doesn't mean much when 1 shot 1 kill comes into effect.

[HolyAvenger]

Scoring highly with a gun is not an indication that a gun is good, but that you are good.

The Valiant has been left behind since the SR buffs to the BW, Jav and Widow, and is definitely not competitive with the CSR.

It needs a look.

[Destructo-Bot]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Scoring highly with a gun is not an indication that a gun is good, but that you are good.

The Valiant has been left behind since the SR buffs to the BW, Jav and Widow, and is definitely not competitive with the CSR.

It needs a look.

At the very least it can show that the gun is viable at the demonstrated difficulty. The Hurricane is a really good gun, but not all classes can use it as effectively as weapon platformers. Not all classes can make the Javelin sing like infiltrators can. Most people wouldn't equip an infiltrator with the falcon, but there are classes that can really make the stagger lock into a huge benefit.

Of course if you guys really are trying to get Bioware to buff it... by all means. It will just make it more ridiculous in the right hands.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 26 janvier 2013 - 11:14 .

[GottvonHoff]

I still like the Valiant, it's just that I don't feel like sniping these days (that, and enemies tend to bum-rush you anyway).

[HolyAvenger]

I don't think at any point the argument was the Valiant was 'unviable'. Its just been left behind in the metagame thanks to changes in how sniping works (shieldgate, Phasic Rounds etc) and the buffs to other SRs.

[N7 Legend Titi]

Valiant is Awesome.

[Destructo-Bot]

Air Quotes wrote...

@ Destructo - you also score mostly Bronze and Silver medals with it. If the gun is your main damage dealer it's a RARITY not to get 75 kills with it. Especially when you score 200k+

One of my previous posts pointed this out. Others are looking at the Valiant in the same light as the Black Widow, expecting it to be the primary killer. Use it to enhance your powers, land the killing blow with a power to set off an ammo burst and do AOE damage to fresh spawns and clean up bosses with headshots. Making it hit harder will actually reduce its effectiveness with this tactic. Another round in the clip would be nice but not as amazing as it may seem at first.

My point is that many people see this gun as underwhelming and I have the exact opposite experience with it. I've run with some very, very good players with my Valiant build and never felt left behind.

edit: as demonstrated below

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 26 janvier 2013 - 11:26 .

[121210Olivia]

It's not garbage. But if you're not into shooting bosses a zillion times, or headshotting e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g every time to actually kill something, then it's quite underwhelming and performs poorly.

No fun.

[Zjarcal]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

At the very least it can show that the gun is viable at the demonstrated difficulty. 

Any weapon is "viable" in the right hands, no matter the difficulty, even common weapons. Scoreboard screenshots really don't prove anything ever.

Besides, no one is saying the Valiant is crap, it's not, but it definitely lags behind the other sniper rifles right now.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 26 janvier 2013 - 11:29 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Zjarcal wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

At the very least it can show that the gun is viable at the demonstrated difficulty. 

Any weapon is "viable" in the right hands, no matter the difficulty, even common weapons. Scoreboard screenshots really don't prove anything ever.

Besides, no one is saying the Valiant is crap, it's not, but it definitely lags behind the other sniper rifles right now.

In terms of direct damage... sure. I say that it's a different beast altogether and is not being used correctly when utilized in that manner.

Air Quotes wrote...

Also you score 5-10 headshots. In the right hands it would be 20. ALWAYS.

Well, we all have our off days.

But in reality, you only get a headshot medal on KILLS. My tactics generally reserve the final blows for a power to get a tech burst (even for bosses). Kills by headshots and direct damage are accidents... you can't tech burst a corpse.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 26 janvier 2013 - 11:40 .

[january42]

Objectivly, the valiant isn't a bad gun. It's better than most of the gold snipers, except maybe the Kishock, but most of the gold snipers arn't and that good.

The problem with the valiant is....I never have a build where it makes sense to use. The BW does the same thing on pure sniper infiltrator builds and the indra works better on casters.  And the CSR has similar weight and works better as a boss killer.  (more total damage per clip). 

The result of all that is....the only use for the valiant is challenges.  It's a lighter, weaker BW. The problem is....there isn't any advantage to that over just using the actual black widow.

My suggestions would be

1) Reduce the weight to make it competative with the indra.  It would be interesting to have another sniper rifle for charachters who care about cooldown anyway.

OR(only do one of these of course)

2) Massivly increase the clip size. Double at least, but I would start with 9 and go from there. This would make it somewhat competative with CSR in boss killing ability and would be aimed at non-infiltrator users.

I don't think it needs a damage buff. The only way a damage buff would get people to use it is if the damage was buffed so it was the same as the BW...which would just make it a better BW.

[N7-RedFox]

I love my Valiant. But its been stuck at lvl IX for the last 8 weeks. Hint hint RNG!

But yes, it is severely outclassed by the BW and Javelin. 10% Damage increase would make it a worthy N7 UR.

Modifié par N7-RedFox, 26 janvier 2013 - 11:50 .

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

+10-15% damage buff would bring it inline with the rest of the SRs

[january42]

One of my previous posts pointed this out. Others are looking at the Valiant in the same light as the Black Widow, expecting it to be the primary killer. Use it to enhance your powers, land the killing blow with a power to set off an ammo burst and do AOE damage to fresh spawns and clean up bosses with headshots. Making it hit harder will actually reduce its effectiveness with this tactic. Another round in the clip would be nice but not as amazing as it may seem at first.

My point is that many people see this gun as underwhelming and I have the exact opposite experience with it. I've run with some very, very good players with my Valiant build and never felt left behind.

edit: as demonstrated below

As I expalined, the problem is that there are other guns that do this better. Even with the VIII of them I have, the valiant is kinda heavy to "enhance" your powers.  I just end up using a indra or paladin, which are both waaay ligher and can do the job pretty much as welll.

[DarkseidXIII]

I've been complaining about it for the past 4 weeks. Its been in my comm pack. use it with each new upgrade and its pretty amazing. Still! Been stuck at Eagle VII for 4 weeks. Want my X. Darn it!

[Destructo-Bot]

Air Quotes wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

At the very least it can show that the gun is viable at the demonstrated difficulty. 

Any weapon is "viable" in the right hands, no matter the difficulty, even common weapons. Scoreboard screenshots really don't prove anything ever.

Besides, no one is saying the Valiant is crap, it's not, but it definitely lags behind the other sniper rifles right now.

In terms of direct damage... sure. I say that it's a different beast altogether and is not being used correctly when utilized in that manner.

Air Quotes wrote...

Also you score 5-10 headshots. In the right hands it would be 20. ALWAYS.

Well, we all have our off days.

But in reality, you only get a headshot medal on KILLS. My tactics generally reserve the final blows for a power to get a tech burst (even for bosses). Kills by headshots and direct damage are accidents... you can't tech burst a corpse.

 

Many weapons can prime and even better than the Valiant. And you proved it yourself. It lacks power and needs tech bursts to kill. 

My point about it being a different beast altogether exactly!

I love the Valiant, Bioware modifying it may very well make it worse in my case which is what I'm concerned with. I've expressed my POV as best I can. I'm not the best sniper or player in the world, so with the my Valiant build holding up so well in my games it is my humble opinion that it is fine as is.

Just for reference, I recorded a random PUG game with my Valiant Infiltrator if you really want to see how I play with it. I gave it an opratic metal soundtrack since the PUGs weren't talkative

Valiant Infiltrator Video

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 27 janvier 2013 - 12:17 .

[january42]

My point about it being a different beast altogether exactly!

I love the Valiant, Bioware modifying it may very well make it worse in my case which is what I'm concerned with. I've expressed my POV as best I can. I'm not the best sniper or player in the world, so with the my Valiant build holding up so well in my games it is my humble opinion that it is fine as is.

Just for reference, I recorded a random PUG game with my Valiant Infiltrator if you really want to see how I play with it. I gave it an opratic metal soundtrack since the PUGs weren't talkative

How do you use it? I have the sniper banner,so I can prove I used the thing a bunch. But I just always feell I would be better off with a different gun.   BW is better on pure snipers(TC users) and classes that don't care about cooldown and the valaint is really  a bit to heavy for any class that actually does care about it's cooldowns.
People who like it....try comparing an indra or paladin and then say what you think.


It's not as bad as the krysae, which is just pathetic(I feel I'm hurting a team if that's the primary gun)...It just falls into an area that is totally non-useful.

Like I said, I don't think it needs a damage buff, and I don't think that would be that usefull either. I think a weight reduction is the best way to go.

[Destructo-Bot]

The video link is at the bottom of my previous post. I've renamed the youtube link to "Valiant Infiltrator Video"

I record at 1080p so you can watch it full screen 


I wouldn't be against a weight reduction... but then where does the Viper fit in?

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 27 janvier 2013 - 12:22 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Ehhh, it's a good mook killer.

[Red Panda]

Let's be serious. It amy not outshine other rifles in terms of damage, but the Valiant is the most user-friendly rifle in the game bar the harrier.