By and large, the factions in DA2 and DA:O are pretty straightforward. You have a little time to feel both of them out, then you pick a side and go with it, usually irreversably turning your back on the other side. Elves vs. werewolves, Bhelen vs. Harrowmont, templars vs. mages, etc.
I'm sure it's not the easiest thing to implement, but I'd like to see a less binary system for DA3, particularly if we're in Orlais with all of its delicious politics and scheming. Maybe we can betray one side for another. Or play both for fools and pit them against each other. Or side with no one. Maybe there are three or four factions involved in a particular conflict (say, the Chantry/Seekers, the mages, and the templars in the war) and we can work out alliances between some of the factions. Thoughts?
Expanding faction interaction for DA3
Débuté par
Sable Rhapsody
, janv. 26 2013 12:05
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#2
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 12:53
Knight of Dane
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I really hope that there are going to be branching opportunities rather than just the usual two.
Having a choice is nice of course, but having multiple is what makes the best role playing experiences for me.
Edit:
Actually a thing I like about the Orzammar part of the game is that you can play it out in several ways that vary a bit, if bioware could make something more distinctive up then I'd really be impressed. I have tried both going clean with Bhelen, Harrowmont, Spying for Harrowmont, Spying for Bhelen..
The Elves/Werewolf I also like because you can get three results really, Elves/Cured Weres, Elves/w. Zathrian, and just Werewolves.
:happy:
Having a choice is nice of course, but having multiple is what makes the best role playing experiences for me.
Edit:
Actually a thing I like about the Orzammar part of the game is that you can play it out in several ways that vary a bit, if bioware could make something more distinctive up then I'd really be impressed. I have tried both going clean with Bhelen, Harrowmont, Spying for Harrowmont, Spying for Bhelen..
The Elves/Werewolf I also like because you can get three results really, Elves/Cured Weres, Elves/w. Zathrian, and just Werewolves.
:happy:
Modifié par Knight of Dane, 26 janvier 2013 - 12:55 .
#3
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 01:01
Wulfram
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DA:O had rather a lot of opportunities for treachery. You could play a double game with the Dwarf candidates, promise Anora your support then take the crown for yourself, help the werewolves kill the elves and pretend to go along with shouty cultist guy.
What I think is needed for more depth on the political side is more persistance of factions throughout the game, with grudges carried on and favours remembered. Rather than everything being locked in it's own little section, as it was in DA:O.
What I think is needed for more depth on the political side is more persistance of factions throughout the game, with grudges carried on and favours remembered. Rather than everything being locked in it's own little section, as it was in DA:O.
#4
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 01:17
Knight of Dane
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Kind of the same initial recipe just expanded upon?Wulfram wrote...
What I think is needed for more depth on the political side is more persistance of factions throughout the game, with grudges carried on and favours remembered. Rather than everything being locked in it's own little section, as it was in DA:O.
Like that, make it a theme that can really put loyalties into doubt.
#5
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 01:55
RosaAquafire
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Wulfram wrote...
What I think is needed for more depth on the political side is more persistance of factions throughout the game, with grudges carried on and favours remembered. Rather than everything being locked in it's own little section, as it was in DA:O.
Yes, I agree with this. I like how you can be duplicitious in DA:O but the game never acknowledges your betrayals. I was pretty disappointed when playing an Aeducan who pledged her support to Bhelen, went along with all of his games, and then crowned Harrowmont. It was the best revenge ever, but my betrayal was never acknowledged. Sad times.
#6
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 02:10
Giltspur
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My favorite uses of factions have probably been in sandbox RPG's like Morrowind and New Vegas. I think the reasons why I liked them in Morrowind is they served as jobs that you could and thus became a form of character customization (for example, my first faction I joined was the mages guild). While in new Vegas, the faction were ways to change the world state, impose a new leader on New Vegas. So I can think of two purposes I've enjoyed factions for:
1) Jobs
2) State-Changers
Dragon Age hasn't really had any factions that served as "jobs" though they did mercenaries and thieves at the start of Act I, though it didn't receive much treatment. And I've generally thought it would be cool to do more here in a Bioware game. You had strongholds in Baldur's Gate II that could help you feel like you were playing your class and that your class was a way of life that helped define your character. But they were fairly limited in impact. You play a mage and you basically teach apprentices to make different items. And that isn't really what I imagined life as a mage would be like. Certainly, I'd like to see class specializations do something along these lines in DA3. You're a bard. Here are some bard quests and a bard place to hang out. You're a mage that researches the arcane. Here are some ruins that might shed light on some mysteries. And so forth. That would be cool--class specializations as factions that serve to make your character feel more like something you've chosen to be and been able to experience. But who knows, I've only ever seen factions that extensive in a sandbox RPG, and even there I haven't seen as extensive as I'd like. And that's not surprising. I want more than anyone could ever deliver. I don't hold it against them.
Dragon Age has done more with State-Changers. My favorite decision wasn't really a faction in the traditional sense thought it felt like it served a similar purpose to factions that change states. Who's monarch of Ferelden. My Warden did feel like a Kingmaker somewhat at the end of DAO, and I liked all that went it to that. I'd put a mushy Alistair on the throne, watched him behead Loghain and knew Wynee would be an advisor and sock-mender for him. It was cool. Mostly though when people say factions in Dragon Age they're going to mean Elves or Werewolves, Templars or Mages, Harrowmont or Bhelen. Those are are okay. Of them I liked Harrowmont and Bhelen the most because you had to learn a bit about Dwarven politics to see the difference between them. Because without that you might think than Bhelen was obviously the bad guy and that Harrowmont was obviously the good guy. That it wasn't so simple made that one of the better faction decisions in Dragon Age. Though none of them were as cool a decision as what New Vegas had, with choosing among NCR, Caesar, House or the--whatever you want to call the Wild Cards questline. Why did I like that more? I'm not sure. Everybody sucked in their own special way. But you needed to do something. And you had an array of choices. Was having the four choices all which covered some decent political ground what made it cool? There's probably an art to getting people to relish crap sandwhiches, and for whatever reason, Obsidian is really good at it.
1) Jobs
2) State-Changers
Dragon Age hasn't really had any factions that served as "jobs" though they did mercenaries and thieves at the start of Act I, though it didn't receive much treatment. And I've generally thought it would be cool to do more here in a Bioware game. You had strongholds in Baldur's Gate II that could help you feel like you were playing your class and that your class was a way of life that helped define your character. But they were fairly limited in impact. You play a mage and you basically teach apprentices to make different items. And that isn't really what I imagined life as a mage would be like. Certainly, I'd like to see class specializations do something along these lines in DA3. You're a bard. Here are some bard quests and a bard place to hang out. You're a mage that researches the arcane. Here are some ruins that might shed light on some mysteries. And so forth. That would be cool--class specializations as factions that serve to make your character feel more like something you've chosen to be and been able to experience. But who knows, I've only ever seen factions that extensive in a sandbox RPG, and even there I haven't seen as extensive as I'd like. And that's not surprising. I want more than anyone could ever deliver. I don't hold it against them.
Dragon Age has done more with State-Changers. My favorite decision wasn't really a faction in the traditional sense thought it felt like it served a similar purpose to factions that change states. Who's monarch of Ferelden. My Warden did feel like a Kingmaker somewhat at the end of DAO, and I liked all that went it to that. I'd put a mushy Alistair on the throne, watched him behead Loghain and knew Wynee would be an advisor and sock-mender for him. It was cool. Mostly though when people say factions in Dragon Age they're going to mean Elves or Werewolves, Templars or Mages, Harrowmont or Bhelen. Those are are okay. Of them I liked Harrowmont and Bhelen the most because you had to learn a bit about Dwarven politics to see the difference between them. Because without that you might think than Bhelen was obviously the bad guy and that Harrowmont was obviously the good guy. That it wasn't so simple made that one of the better faction decisions in Dragon Age. Though none of them were as cool a decision as what New Vegas had, with choosing among NCR, Caesar, House or the--whatever you want to call the Wild Cards questline. Why did I like that more? I'm not sure. Everybody sucked in their own special way. But you needed to do something. And you had an array of choices. Was having the four choices all which covered some decent political ground what made it cool? There's probably an art to getting people to relish crap sandwhiches, and for whatever reason, Obsidian is really good at it.
Modifié par Giltspur, 26 janvier 2013 - 02:11 .
#7
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 03:27
ElitePinecone
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Sable Rhapsody wrote...
By and large, the factions in DA2 and DA:O are pretty straightforward. You have a little time to feel both of them out, then you pick a side and go with it, usually irreversably turning your back on the other side. Elves vs. werewolves, Bhelen vs. Harrowmont, templars vs. mages, etc.
I'm sure it's not the easiest thing to implement, but I'd like to see a less binary system for DA3, particularly if we're in Orlais with all of its delicious politics and scheming. Maybe we can betray one side for another. Or play both for fools and pit them against each other. Or side with no one. Maybe there are three or four factions involved in a particular conflict (say, the Chantry/Seekers, the mages, and the templars in the war) and we can work out alliances between some of the factions. Thoughts?
This is a really excellent idea, I'm all for more intrigue and skullduggery in my gaming - particularly if the diffferent combinations and plot paths have their own writing and unique events.
#8
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 04:12
Knight of Dane
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I wonder If I can get to understand "the game" 100% when we get Orlais going...
#9
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 07:08
bloodmage13
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Yeah factions would be a great addition to dragon age. I love the faction system from new Vegas. I love being able to play politics in a RPG. Being able to betray the dalish elves was one the best parts of DAO. I just wish that the NPCs would have acknowledged it. They should have expressed disgust and anger.
#10
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 07:13
Blackrising
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Knight of Dane wrote...
I wonder If I can get to understand "the game" 100% when we get Orlais going...
Just remember: You have to ask a dance of the Dowager if you want to play the game.
(I don't know, this will forever remain my favourite codex entry. I don't even know why.)
#11
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 09:06
Sable Rhapsody
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RosaAquafire wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
What I think is needed for more depth on the political side is more persistance of factions throughout the game, with grudges carried on and favours remembered. Rather than everything being locked in it's own little section, as it was in DA:O.
Yes, I agree with this. I like how you can be duplicitious in DA:O but the game never acknowledges your betrayals. I was pretty disappointed when playing an Aeducan who pledged her support to Bhelen, went along with all of his games, and then crowned Harrowmont. It was the best revenge ever, but my betrayal was never acknowledged. Sad times.
Yeah, this was kind of weird. Like how you can betray one faction for another in the Skyrim Civil War, and apart from a few comments when you turn over the Jagged Crown, the game never makes any note of it. It doesn't really feel as interesting if no one remembers all the skullduggery you get up to.
#12
Posté 26 janvier 2013 - 11:54
Knight of Dane
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Must remember a slice of the cheese of sorrows.Blackrising wrote...
Knight of Dane wrote...
I wonder If I can get to understand "the game" 100% when we get Orlais going...
Just remember: You have to ask a dance of the Dowager if you want to play the game.
(I don't know, this will forever remain my favourite codex entry. I don't even know why.)
