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[daft inquisitor]

I just thought I'd take the time to set out a little primer here, considering it came up again in a thread David Gaider commented on recently. Okay? Here we go.

Qunari Culture
Qunari - A race of giant horned humanoids who follow the philosophical/religious followings of the Qun.
Qunari - Any single individual who follow the philosophical/religious followings of the Qun.
Vashoth - Any single individual who no longer follows the Qun.
Tal'Vashoth - Any single individual who no longer follows the Qun. This term tends to focus on those who become violent/mercenary, often towards the Qun itself.
Kossith - A term used for the culture of the (Racial) Qunari before the invention of the (Philosophical) Qunari. This term literally has no meaning anymore, as the Qunari are Qunari, whether Vashoth or not.

Qunari and Others
Bas - Any single non-Qunari (in either sense), particularly those who are potential converts.
Basalit-an - Any single non-Qunari (racially) who holds a measure of respect in Qunari culture, but is not a convert.
Viddathari - Any single non-Qunari (racially) who converts to the Ways Of The Qun. Possibly a term used for newcomers to the Qun, who are not yet fully indoctrinated.
Kabethari - Any single individual or group that the Qunari feel are "lesser", unworthy of ever becoming a Qunari. Also a term for those who are being forcefully converted to the Qun.
Kadan - Someone towards whom a Qunari holds a close personal attachment to. Commonly colleagues or close friends.



As part of this little breakdown, we have the [Tal']Vashoth. Regardless of whether you are racially a Qunari, or religiously a Qunari, anyone who ceases to follow those tenants are no longer Qunari in any regard.

Also as noted above, referring to a Qunari, or even an ex-Qunari, as a Kossith is both technically and philosophically wrong. People, let's just stick with Vashoth, shall we? There are always parenthesis for the times when we're talking about a Vashoth (as an ex-convert).

I will continue to update this primer if I feel it is needed, for there are still many Qunari terms that could be covered here. 

EDIT: As a note, I'm not sure if this has happened or if it is possible, but I'm curious as to whether there is a term for a Tal'Vashoth that converts back to the ways of the Qun. I'm tempted to think it isn't possible, but considering there are unwilling converts, I don't see why you couldn't have willing re-converts.

EDIT2: I have begun adding links to posts or articles where the Devs go further in depth with certain terminology, as a reference point for future discussion.

Modifié par ShadowDragoonFTW, 26 janvier 2013 - 07:16 .

[Knight of Dane]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...
As part of this little breakdown, let's consider the Jewish people. Being Jewish is both a racial standing, as well as a religious standing, and the two need not overlap. In this regard, the Qunari are reminiscent of the real-world society that uses the same term for two different cultural meanings.

The only place I have ever visited where both jews and "other people" applied this meaning was when I visted America in 2008, no place I have ever been to in Europe describes Judaism as anything other than a religion.
One of my good jewish friends was even offended when someone called it a "race."

Just to mention that what you say is not a notion shared with everyone.

Back to DA:I

[daft inquisitor]

Knight of Dane wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...
As part of this little breakdown, let's consider the Jewish people. Being Jewish is both a racial standing, as well as a religious standing, and the two need not overlap. In this regard, the Qunari are reminiscent of the real-world society that uses the same term for two different cultural meanings.

The only place I have ever visited where both jews and "other people" applied this meaning was when I visted America in 2008, no place I have ever been to in Europe describes Judaism as anything other than a religion.
One of my good jewish friends was even offended when someone called it a "race."

Just to mention that what you say is not a notion shared with everyone.

Back to DA:I

Hm, being USA born and raised, I was not aware this was an issue elsewhere. Either way, considering that the Dragon Age team is centered mostly in America, I would assume they see this the same way.

[TEWR]

Either way, considering that the Dragon Age team is centered mostly in America

Canada.

[Fast Jimmy]

To update your list, you may want to change it to say:

"Viddathari - Any single individual who follow the philosophical/religious followings of the Qun who is not the Kossith race."

Apparently, Gaider gets really upset when people call the gray-skinned race Kossith. He'd prefer they are all referred to as Qunari, unless they are Tal'Vashoth. For converts to the Qun who are not of the Kossith race, Gaider would prefer them refered to as Viddathari rather than Quanri, since Qunari is intended to mean the race and Kossith is an obscure term no Qunari or person in the game ever uses.

[Knight of Dane]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Either way, considering that the Dragon Age team is centered mostly in America

Canada.

Which is supposed to be much more European in comparison. At least that's what my family in Vancouver tells me.
And, the Jewish population of Canada is also almost only a 1/10th of that of the US.
/Hope i can end my nitpicking here 

[Althix]

yes yes Jews are simply peculiar people. And old testament simply describes jewish military law.

Carry on.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 26 janvier 2013 - 04:12 .

[daft inquisitor]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

To update your list, you may want to change it to say:

"Viddathari - Any single individual who follow the philosophical/religious followings of the Qun who is not the Kossith race."

Apparently, Gaider gets really upset when people call the gray-skinned race Kossith. He'd prefer they are all referred to as Qunari, unless they are Tal'Vashoth. For converts to the Qun who are not of the Kossith race, Gaider would prefer them refered to as Viddathari rather than Quanri, since Qunari is intended to mean the race and Kossith is an obscure term no Qunari or person in the game ever uses.

Fast Jimmy, I think you're missing the point. There is no such thing as a "Kossith" anymore, which is why Gaider finds it frustrating. That's why I specifically added the "Kossith" entry up there.

Also, considering the whole Jewish/America thing, I think I"ll just remove that section of the OP. And I blame the school system. I just want to add that part.

[Fast Jimmy]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

To update your list, you may want to change it to say:

"Viddathari - Any single individual who follow the philosophical/religious followings of the Qun who is not the Kossith race."

Apparently, Gaider gets really upset when people call the gray-skinned race Kossith. He'd prefer they are all referred to as Qunari, unless they are Tal'Vashoth. For converts to the Qun who are not of the Kossith race, Gaider would prefer them refered to as Viddathari rather than Quanri, since Qunari is intended to mean the race and Kossith is an obscure term no Qunari or person in the game ever uses.

Fast Jimmy, I think you're missing the point. There is no such thing as a "Kossith" anymore, which is why Gaider finds it frustrating. That's why I specifically added the "Kossith" entry up there.

Also, considering the whole Jewish/America thing, I think I"ll just remove that section of the OP. And I blame the school system. I just want to add that part.

Well, that's fine, but I still think the Viddathari term should be added. If Qunari is used to label only the race, than it would be important to find a suitable monicker to label those who are not the race, but of the religion. And Viddathari covers that quite nicely (as Gaider himself pointed out).

[daft inquisitor]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Well, that's fine, but I still think the Viddathari term should be added. If Qunari is used to label only the race, than it would be important to find a suitable monicker to label those who are not the race, but of the religion. And Viddathari covers that quite nicely (as Gaider himself pointed out).

I agree with that point, and have added it to the top.

[JerZey CJ]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...
As part of this little breakdown, let's consider the Jewish people. Being Jewish is both a racial standing, as well as a religious standing, and the two need not overlap. In this regard, the Qunari are reminiscent of the real-world society that uses the same term for two different cultural meanings.

The only place I have ever visited where both jews and "other people" applied this meaning was when I visted America in 2008, no place I have ever been to in Europe describes Judaism as anything other than a religion.
One of my good jewish friends was even offended when someone called it a "race."

Just to mention that what you say is not a notion shared with everyone.

Back to DA:I

Hm, being USA born and raised, I was not aware this was an issue elsewhere. Either way, considering that the Dragon Age team is centered mostly in America, I would assume they see this the same way.

Not to go too off topic, but being Jewish is not, even in the US, always considered a race. It is usually up for debate and people have varying opinions on it.

[daft inquisitor]

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...


Not to go too off topic, but being Jewish is not, even in the US, always considered a race. It is usually up for debate and people have varying opinions on it.

Well then, let me put it in another sense. I live in backwater-hickville of Pennsylvania, and around here, we think Jewish is both a race and a religion. And most media doesn't exactly make a persuasion against that in any regard.

[Fast Jimmy]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...


Not to go too off topic, but being Jewish is not, even in the US, always considered a race. It is usually up for debate and people have varying opinions on it.

Well then, let me put it in another sense. I live in backwater-hickville of Pennsylvania, and around here, we think Jewish is both a race and a religion. And most media doesn't exactly make a persuasion against that in any regard.

 

Being of Hebrew descent is a reality. A lineage that has specific genotypical markers. For instance, the Y chromosome in males of Hebrew descent has some very unique properties.

I don't think its inherently racist to discuss the fact that people with their genetic heritage in various parts of the world have genetic identifying marks that could make them labeled as a separate "race." As long as you don't make assumptions about that race or that all of its members act or behave in the same fashion.

Which, ironically enough, Bioware does with the Qunari. Even the Tal-Vashoth are devoted to the Qun, even though they reject it. We never see a Qunari who doesn't care about honor, the Qun or their role, but instead just wants to get drunk, gamble or fraternize. 

Imagine a Qunari version of Varric.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 26 janvier 2013 - 04:45 .

[In Exile]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...
Kossith - A term used for the culture of the (Racial) Qunari before the invention of the (Philosophical) Qunari. This term literally has no meaning anymore, as the Qunari are Qunari, whether Vashoth or not.

My understanding was that this term was a reference to a nation of grey-skinned, (sometimes) horned giants prior to the Qun, but not a name of their species (or race). Similar to how "Americans" refers to a distinct nation and culture, but isn't what we would consider a "race" of people. 

ETA: Basically, I'm not sure if "culture" is the right word for it.

Modifié par In Exile, 26 janvier 2013 - 04:53 .

[Althix]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Imagine a Qunari version of Varric.

oh horror, horror!

[legbamel]

Back on point, I thought the difference between Vashoth and Tal'Vashoth was the person's attitude toward the Qun. The former are all those who left the Qunari and the latter are those who actively fight against them. Or am I completely off?

[Wulfram]

There's always "oxmen" if you don't want to delve too deeply into all that Qunari babble.

[In Exile]

legbamel wrote...

Back on point, I thought the difference between Vashoth and Tal'Vashoth was the person's attitude toward the Qun. The former are all those who left the Qunari and the latter are those who actively fight against them. Or am I completely off?

My understanding was that it was about how to deal with your role as being outside of the Qun - something about the Tal actually fighting? But I'm not sure if that's right.

[Fast Jimmy]

Wulfram wrote...

There's always "oxmen" if you don't want to delve too deeply into all that Qunari babble.

Ha! Seconded. That would definitely clear the air on what you are talking about.

[legbamel]

Don't be silly.  It's "Ox-Woman for Companion and LI". 

[Herr Uhl]

legbamel wrote...

Back on point, I thought the difference between Vashoth and Tal'Vashoth was the person's attitude toward the Qun. The former are all those who left the Qunari and the latter are those who actively fight against them. Or am I completely off?

No, that is kind of right. Tal is added for the ones that are violent.

[atum]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...


Not to go too off topic, but being Jewish is not, even in the US, always considered a race. It is usually up for debate and people have varying opinions on it.

...

Which, ironically enough, Bioware does with the Qunari. Even the Tal-Vashoth are devoted to the Qun, even though they reject it. We never see a Qunari who doesn't care about honor, the Qun or their role, but instead just wants to get drunk, gamble or fraternize. 

Imagine a Qunari version of Varric.

In DA2 the Tal-Vashoth set up "bandit" style raids.  One also hires himself out as a mercenary.  Sure, they dont sit around and get drunk, but there is some difference between them and the Qunari.

It seems normal enough to me that Tal-Vashoth, while rejecting the Qun, don't jump all the way to the other side of the spectrum.

I've rejected my religous upbringing, but I'm not out throwing wild devil-worship parties*












*(except on the weekends)

Modifié par atum, 26 janvier 2013 - 05:20 .

[The Spirit of Dance]

Thanks, I didn't know what term to use when speaking of their race in general (Kossith). I just called them Qunari/Tal-Vashoth.

Modifié par supremebloodwolf, 26 janvier 2013 - 05:51 .