230 réponses à ce sujet

[Xamufam]

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6406-Think-of-the-Children

[TheRevanchist]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

The flaw though is that BW wants you to feel specific emotions. They want you to feel sad. They want to have you feel goaded into listening to Casper.

Yes, I believe BW want's us to feel sympathy for the Catalyst.

I really think that's not it. More probably, they wanted to make it more jarring by linking a friendly face with a cosmic being talking, similar to what they did with Leviathan. Except that Leviathan makes sense because it reads minds - there is nothing to suggest that Catalyst does the same.

fiendishchicken wrote...

No I don't agree with it. The reason Shepard is so weak and suggestive is because BW doesn't want you to question the Catalyst unnecessarily.

It's not like Shepard had many options at that point. And, well, you can always try shooting, heh heh

Shooting you say? So be it

[His Name was HYR!!]

Davik Kang wrote...

Vigil, representing Protheans, appeared as a Prothean.  ReaperLord, representing Reapers, appears as a human child.

Not at all the same thing.

You're confusing Vigil with Vendetta.

The thing I am getting at is... why the chosen image (as many are agreeing on, it was an image chosen by the Reaper stripped from Shepard;s mind) is an image specifically from Shepard's dreams

It didn't choose, it appeared as *projection* from Shepard's mind.

[Davik Kang]

kylecouch wrote...
Probably because the fans would quickly realize the whole thing is a trap if he sounded like this.

True but again that only explains that the Reaper wanted a more sympathetic voice.  It doesn't explain how it is able to generate a hologram that looks like a kid whom Shepard saw briefly in Vancouver, but has mostly come to know as the avatar of her dreams...

Wayning_Star wrote...
Why would the "kid" represent the reapers? Its NOT, it's reapresnting US.. why would it do that? For the same reason we post here online about it. To attempt understanding...

The Kid says "I am the Catalyst" and "The Reapers... I control them".  He's not representing us in any way.  He's manifesting himself as a human, sure.

The Kid really isn't interested in understanding at this point.  He's saying, "here's the Crucible, what you gonna do?  You could do A but consider B, and I'd really prefer it if you went for C".  The only way you could say he's attempting understanding is if the whole thing is a fabrication designed to mentally test Shepard and nothing more.

[Wayning_Star]

Davik Kang wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Because Shepard was thinking about "all the people he couldn't save" (what the boy symbolizes) before passing out.

The Catalyst simply modified his AV output to anything familar to the user. Vigil, a malfunctioning VI, did the same on Ilos.

So Shepard sees/hears what he can make sense of -- whatever language he speaks and the images readily in mind.

Vigil, representing Protheans, appeared as a Prothean.  ReaperLord, representing Reapers, appears as a human child.

Not at all the same thing.

The thing I am getting at is... why the chosen image (as many are agreeing on, it was an image chosen by the Reaper stripped from Shepard;s mind) is an image specifically from Shepard's dreams

when, exactly, did Shep see the kid in dreams and why? We have no way of knowing why, it just 'is'. We do know Shep saw a lot of strange stuff every time a beacon or reaper techno gizmo was found. Is the 'kid' real or a fiction/fabrication of Sheps mind. Does the actual kid exist in real time for Shepard? Did the kid arrive first or did the dreams?

Fast forward to the catalyst, and you see the kid in a cyber effective reality. Maybe dream states are just the reality of the intelligence and the kid stuck out in Sheps mind for some reason unknown to us. We assume it's an emotional link between Shep and the Kid, as Shep seems to be the only one who sees the kid the way he/she does throughout the story...

[Wayning_Star]

Davik Kang wrote...

kylecouch wrote...
Probably because the fans would quickly realize the whole thing is a trap if he sounded like this.

True but again that only explains that the Reaper wanted a more sympathetic voice.  It doesn't explain how it is able to generate a hologram that looks like a kid whom Shepard saw briefly in Vancouver, but has mostly come to know as the avatar of her dreams...

Wayning_Star wrote...
Why would the "kid" represent the reapers? Its NOT, it's reapresnting US.. why would it do that? For the same reason we post here online about it. To attempt understanding...

The Kid says "I am the Catalyst" and "The Reapers... I control them".  He's not representing us in any way.  He's manifesting himself as a human, sure.

The Kid really isn't interested in understanding at this point.  He's saying, "here's the Crucible, what you gonna do?  You could do A but consider B, and I'd really prefer it if you went for C".  The only way you could say he's attempting understanding is if the whole thing is a fabrication designed to mentally test Shepard and nothing more.

Shep manifests the image, not the catalyst. that's the point of it.

[Davik Kang]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
You're confusing Vigil with Vendetta.
...
It didn't choose, it appeared as *projection* from Shepard's mind.

Sorry, you're correct about Vigil, my mistake.  However, it doesn't change the point - ReaperBoss doesn't appear as a flashy star, it appears as a Kid from Shepard's dreams.

And if it appeared as a projection (which is a decent suggestion as I believe this is similar to what is described in the Geth Concensus), why does it look like a human child?  And not a Reaper?

[Ownedbacon]

spirosz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Your memories give voice to our words"

-Leviathan.

I wish the Catalyst shuffled through the appearances of the character that died in Shepard's playthrough. It would have made the scene feel more surreal like the Leviathan confrontation.

You know, that's probably the best idea, ever.  A disoriented image of Saren when Synthesis gets detailed... so epic. 

I don't get why people relate Saren to Synthesis he wasn't for it. He was all about proving organic's worth to the Reapers so they wouldn't wipe them out. After Shepard gives Saren doubts about his mission and suggests he is indoctrinated. Saren now questioning the Reaper's control over him might cause him to fight the indoctrination. Sovereign has Saren alter his body with Reaper tech implants to "strengthen his resolve". Saren is giving up more control of his body and mind to serve the Reaper. So if you see Synthesis as a bad thing (Reaper servitude) I can see the relation, but if you see it as a good thing he really isn't the avatar of Synthesis.

[Wayning_Star]

Ownedbacon wrote...

spirosz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Your memories give voice to our words"

-Leviathan.

I wish the Catalyst shuffled through the appearances of the character that died in Shepard's playthrough. It would have made the scene feel more surreal like the Leviathan confrontation.

You know, that's probably the best idea, ever.  A disoriented image of Saren when Synthesis gets detailed... so epic. 

I don't get why people relate Saren to Synthesis he wasn't for it. He was all about proving organic's worth to the Reapers so they wouldn't wipe them out. After Shepard gives Saren doubts about his mission and suggests he is indoctrinated. Saren now questioning the Reaper's control over him might cause him to fight the indoctrination. Sovereign has Saren alter his body with Reaper tech implants to "strengthen his resolve". Saren is giving up more control of his body and mind to serve the Reaper. So if you see Synthesis as a bad thing (Reaper servitude) I can see the relation, but if you see it as a good thing he really isn't the avatar of Synthesis.

the bold text relies on the effort to promote a canon in a canonless world view.

[TheRevanchist]

Ownedbacon wrote...

spirosz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Your memories give voice to our words"

-Leviathan.

I wish the Catalyst shuffled through the appearances of the character that died in Shepard's playthrough. It would have made the scene feel more surreal like the Leviathan confrontation.

You know, that's probably the best idea, ever.  A disoriented image of Saren when Synthesis gets detailed... so epic. 

I don't get why people relate Saren to Synthesis he wasn't for it. He was all about proving organic's worth to the Reapers so they wouldn't wipe them out. After Shepard gives Saren doubts about his mission and suggests he is indoctrinated. Saren now questioning the Reaper's control over him might cause him to fight the indoctrination. Sovereign has Saren alter his body with Reaper tech implants to "strengthen his resolve". Saren is giving up more control of his body and mind to serve the Reaper. So if you see Synthesis as a bad thing (Reaper servitude) I can see the relation, but if you see it as a good thing he really isn't the avatar of Synthesis.

"I am a vision of the future Shepard! Organics and machines intertwined! The strengths of both! The weaknesses of neaither!" - Saren.



you were saying?

[His Name was HYR!!]

Davik Kang wrote...

And if it appeared as a projection (which is a decent suggestion as I believe this is similar to what is described in the Geth Concensus), why does it look like a human child?  And not a Reaper?

Because that's what Shepard was thinking about upon reaching the chamber.

The Crucible wasn't firing, and Shepard couldn't do anything about it before passing out.

So, he thought of all the people he couldn't save, which is what the kid was supposed to symbolize (see the artbook).

[Wayning_Star]

Davik Kang wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...
You're confusing Vigil with Vendetta.
...
It didn't choose, it appeared as *projection* from Shepard's mind.

Sorry, you're correct about Vigil, my mistake.  However, it doesn't change the point - ReaperBoss doesn't appear as a flashy star, it appears as a Kid from Shepard's dreams.

And if it appeared as a projection (which is a decent suggestion as I believe this is similar to what is described in the Geth Concensus), why does it look like a human child?  And not a Reaper?

yur too 'hung up' on the reapers and their 'intent' as if that is the exact same intent of the catalyst and is reason to suspect the catalyst of doing you wrong, like the reapers harvests. The harvest isn't the reapers idea, it's the intelligence gone catalyst via the Leviathan, who are the reall enemy in realtime. The catalsyt is merely the main symptom of thralldom. IN reality, it's organic against organic using synthetics as the excuse.

[Davik Kang]

Wayning_Star wrote...
when, exactly, did Shep see the kid in dreams and why? We have no way of knowing why, it just 'is'. We do know Shep saw a lot of strange stuff every time a beacon or reaper techno gizmo was found. Is the 'kid' real or a fiction/fabrication of Sheps mind. Does the actual kid exist in real time for Shepard? Did the kid arrive first or did the dreams?

Fast forward to the catalyst, and you see the kid in a cyber effective reality. Maybe dream states are just the reality of the intelligence and the kid stuck out in Sheps mind for some reason unknown to us. We assume it's an emotional link between Shep and the Kid, as Shep seems to be the only one who sees the kid the way he/she does throughout the story...

Right.  Certainly the Kid is inextricably linked to the dreams - so to understand the final scene, it might help to understand the dreams.  But that's a seperate topic entirely (another one which I've been wanting to make for a while).

Now whether the Kid is real / came before dreams is interesting, but right now, I simply want to get at why he appears at the end.

And if the 'dream state' is the reality and method of communication for the Intelligence, then aren't you basically saying that Shepard is dreaming at the end?

Wayning_Star wrote...
Shep manifests the image, not the catalyst. that's the point of it.

Ok, but then, why the child?  In the dreams, Shepard saw the Child as the protagonist trying to escape from the Reaper enemy, especially in the forst dream.  If anyone represented the Reapers, it could have been the Shadows, it could even have been Shepard, but it certainly wasn't the child - unless you're suggesting that Shepard had already begun to feel subliminal sympathy for the Reapers even before the end.

[dreamgazer]

Davik Kang wrote...

And if it appeared as a projection (which is a decent suggestion as I believe this is similar to what is described in the Geth Concensus), why does it look like a human child?  And not a Reaper?

Playing devil's advocate, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Shepard would manifest the image of the dead child---a representation of what'll happen in a failure situation---in a state of panic after hearing Hackett state that the Crucible isn't firing, if the Catalyst is passive.

EDIT: Already covered. That's what I get for posting while out and about.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 26 janvier 2013 - 05:58 .

[Davik Kang]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Because that's what Shepard was thinking about upon reaching the chamber.

The Crucible wasn't firing, and Shepard couldn't do anything about it before passing out.

So, he thought of all the people he couldn't save, which is what the kid was supposed to symbolize (see the artbook).

Lol we don't need the artbook to see that the Kid symbolises the people Shep couldn't save but thanks for the info anyway.

Now ok, certainly the guilt and helplessness of the situation at the end, being right in front of the control panel but still unable to end the Reaper war, would put Shepard in very much the state of mind that occured during the Kid's death and subsequently in the dreams.  All those people who just couldn't be saved.  Control panel seems up high, out of reach, too far away... to have come all this way and still be unable to stop them...

So why is the voice Shepard hear's represented by this voice?  If Shepard is conscious and in a big Space Chamber, why would the mental image of innocence from her dreams be the one projected onto the Reaper King?  Would't she see a shadow, or even herself?

Surely this only makes sense - that the focal point of this conversation is the focal point of previous dreams - if this is also a dream?  Or, at the least, some kind of hallucination?

[Wayning_Star]

Davik Kang wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
when, exactly, did Shep see the kid in dreams and why? We have no way of knowing why, it just 'is'. We do know Shep saw a lot of strange stuff every time a beacon or reaper techno gizmo was found. Is the 'kid' real or a fiction/fabrication of Sheps mind. Does the actual kid exist in real time for Shepard? Did the kid arrive first or did the dreams?

Fast forward to the catalyst, and you see the kid in a cyber effective reality. Maybe dream states are just the reality of the intelligence and the kid stuck out in Sheps mind for some reason unknown to us. We assume it's an emotional link between Shep and the Kid, as Shep seems to be the only one who sees the kid the way he/she does throughout the story...

Right.  Certainly the Kid is inextricably linked to the dreams - so to understand the final scene, it might help to understand the dreams.  But that's a seperate topic entirely (another one which I've been wanting to make for a while).

Now whether the Kid is real / came before dreams is interesting, but right now, I simply want to get at why he appears at the end.

And if the 'dream state' is the reality and method of communication for the Intelligence, then aren't you basically saying that Shepard is dreaming at the end?

Wayning_Star wrote...
Shep manifests the image, not the catalyst. that's the point of it.

Ok, but then, why the child?  In the dreams, Shepard saw the Child as the protagonist trying to escape from the Reaper enemy, especially in the forst dream.  If anyone represented the Reapers, it could have been the Shadows, it could even have been Shepard, but it certainly wasn't the child - unless you're suggesting that Shepard had already begun to feel subliminal sympathy for the Reapers even before the end.

Why not the child would be a better question, why not a VW hippy van?

as for Shep having subliminal sympathy for a being never encountered would very hard to defend. Shep never really meets a reaper intimately, only during the stress of conflict, not a good place to play a hand of bridge...The entire story keeps Shep off balance with micro management. The dream states are the only 'calm' moments Shep has when relating to reapertech and communications with the catalyst intellect. Shep never actually communes with reapers, to busy trying to destroy their threat, as for the catalyst, Shep doesn't actually communicate well with it either,as the situation demands stressful decision making.. under extreme pressure to "win"...what ever that means in the MEU?

[Davik Kang]

dreamgazer wrote...
Playing devil's advocate, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Shepard would manifest the image of the dead child---a representation of what'll happen in a failure situation---in a state of panic after hearing Hackett state that the Crucible isn't firing, if the Catalyst is passive.

EDIT: Already covered. That's what I get for posting while out and about.

True true true.  Nonetheless, we are at least generally circling round the idea that at least some kind of mental manipulation is going on - after all, the ReaperBoss is appearing as an image extracted from Shepard's psyche, and what's more, an image evocative of feelings of guilt and /or the unpreventable death of innocents.

And about the edit, well I'm pretty sure that happens in every thread, it doesn't hurt to cover things more than once from difference sources / trains of thought.

[Wayning_Star]

Davik Kang wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Playing devil's advocate, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Shepard would manifest the image of the dead child---a representation of what'll happen in a failure situation---in a state of panic after hearing Hackett state that the Crucible isn't firing, if the Catalyst is passive.

EDIT: Already covered. That's what I get for posting while out and about.

True true true.  Nonetheless, we are at least generally circling round the idea that at least some kind of mental manipulation is going on - after all, the ReaperBoss is appearing as an image extracted from Shepard's psyche, and what's more, an image evocative of feelings of guilt and /or the unpreventable death of innocents.

And about the edit, well I'm pretty sure that happens in every thread, it doesn't hurt to cover things more than once from difference sources / trains of thought.

bold italics promote the intent. To infer control from some kind of deception.... i. e. canon fodder?

[Davik Kang]

Wayning_Star wrote...
yur too 'hung up' on the reapers and their 'intent' as if that is the exact same intent of the catalyst and is reason to suspect the catalyst of doing you wrong, like the reapers harvests. The harvest isn't the reapers idea, it's the intelligence gone catalyst via the Leviathan, who are the reall enemy in realtime. The catalsyt is merely the main symptom of thralldom. IN reality, it's organic against organic using synthetics as the excuse.

I'm not hung up on it really though am I.  We're talking about the reasons why the Reaper appears as a human child.  Some have suggested it as a ploy to appeal to Shepard's guilt and sympathy, but not me, and there have been plenty of varying suggestions.  And the difference between Leviathan, Intelligence and Reaper really isn't the issue here.  It doesn't make a difference in terms of the final conversation - we have a being who is trying to convince Shepard to do X, and appears as a human child.  Simple question is why.  

So far we have: image extracted from Shepard's mind; image projected by Shepard's mind (but then what is Shepard looking at?); random image of person killed by a Reaper that is somehow identified as causing emotional response in Shepard...

Wayning_Star wrote...
Why not the child would be a better question, why not a VW hippy van? 

as for Shep having subliminal sympathy for a being never encountered would very hard to defend. Shep never really meets a reaper intimately, only during the stress of conflict, not a good place to play a hand of bridge...The entire story keeps Shep off balance with micro management. The dream states are the only 'calm' moments Shep has when relating to reapertech and communications with the catalyst intellect. Shep never actually communes with reapers, to busy trying to destroy their threat, as for the catalyst, Shep doesn't actually communicate well with it either,as the situation demands stressful decision making.. under extreme pressure to "win"...what ever that means in the MEU?

Yes your first point is the whoole point of this thread.  Why not VW Hippy?  You tell me.

I agree about the subliminal sympathy, but that seemed to me the only logical explanation for Shepard projecting a sympathetic image onto a Reaper.

Btw, in the MEU, the 'win' condition was to destroy the Reapers... right up until the last 5 mins... because where other characters were not able to convince Shepard otherwise (TIM, Saren), one character somehow had the power...

[Wayning_Star]

now where in the MEU worlds would the intelligence gone catalyst 'learn' about manipulation?

three guesses, first two don't count...

[GreyLycanTrope]

Davik Kang wrote...
You mean - you don't have any idea why he does so.  You think there's no explanation... others beg to differ.

You must have an opinion at least?  No?

It's clearly and appeal to emotion though with one is a bit confused. It can't be an instance of "A Form You Are Comfortable With.", since Shepard has been having nightmares about the kid why we s/he be comfortable with this? If the appearance is meant to be manipulative it again misses the mark because emotions are a tricky thing and no everyone is so easily swayed by a very blatant attempt to manipulate someone through use of a dead kid.
Is it a taunt meant to anger us? What possible point would that serve?
Is he just trying to point out that he can read your thoughts? How does this help him?

I can think of several ideas as to why he might wear a dead kid's face like a halloween costume but none of them hold up to scrutiny since the personal effects are so varried.

Safest bet is that the writer simply thought it was a cool idea meant to show the game coming full circle because this kid:

playing with a toy fighter is practically the first thing you see at the start of ME3 and glow boy here is one of the last:


It's there to give a sense of closure to ME3 much like the Relays exploding is meant to give a sense of closure and finality to Shep's journey. Again back in ME1 one fo the first things you see:


ME3 one of the last things you see:

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 26 janvier 2013 - 06:17 .

[Wayning_Star]

Davik Kang wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
yur too 'hung up' on the reapers and their 'intent' as if that is the exact same intent of the catalyst and is reason to suspect the catalyst of doing you wrong, like the reapers harvests. The harvest isn't the reapers idea, it's the intelligence gone catalyst via the Leviathan, who are the reall enemy in realtime. The catalsyt is merely the main symptom of thralldom. IN reality, it's organic against organic using synthetics as the excuse.

I'm not hung up on it really though am I.  We're talking about the reasons why the Reaper appears as a human child.  Some have suggested it as a ploy to appeal to Shepard's guilt and sympathy, but not me, and there have been plenty of varying suggestions.  And the difference between Leviathan, Intelligence and Reaper really isn't the issue here.  It doesn't make a difference in terms of the final conversation - we have a being who is trying to convince Shepard to do X, and appears as a human child.  Simple question is why.  

So far we have: image extracted from Shepard's mind; image projected by Shepard's mind (but then what is Shepard looking at?); random image of person killed by a Reaper that is somehow identified as causing emotional response in Shepard...

Wayning_Star wrote...
Why not the child would be a better question, why not a VW hippy van? 

as for Shep having subliminal sympathy for a being never encountered would very hard to defend. Shep never really meets a reaper intimately, only during the stress of conflict, not a good place to play a hand of bridge...The entire story keeps Shep off balance with micro management. The dream states are the only 'calm' moments Shep has when relating to reapertech and communications with the catalyst intellect. Shep never actually communes with reapers, to busy trying to destroy their threat, as for the catalyst, Shep doesn't actually communicate well with it either,as the situation demands stressful decision making.. under extreme pressure to "win"...what ever that means in the MEU?

Yes your first point is the whoole point of this thread.  Why not VW Hippy?  You tell me.

I agree about the subliminal sympathy, but that seemed to me the only logical explanation for Shepard projecting a sympathetic image onto a Reaper.

Btw, in the MEU, the 'win' condition was to destroy the Reapers... right up until the last 5 mins... because where other characters were not able to convince Shepard otherwise (TIM, Saren), one character somehow had the power...

We're the ones sustaining some sympathy toward a kid lost in the extremes of the moment, the catalyst couldn't care less, it's an alien machine mind with an agenda. But, that agenda isn't to control Shep, so much as control the entire situation. Sheps proven good a complicating that issue..lol

No, the 'win' isn't about destroying the reapers, no matter how inclusive that theme controls Shep through the endgame. The win win in the scnerio is up to each invocation of canon ending. But, we Sheps must take the whole story into account, as we set back and meditated on the complete effort, with ALL concerned. It's a big picture thing, but the story makes eveyone 'micro' invision threats.

Who, exactly, are the combatants in the MEU? Choice dependent, who wins the most with 'each' decision?

very interesting questions, to me anyways..

[His Name was HYR!!]

Davik Kang wrote...

So why is the voice Shepard hear's represented by this voice?  If Shepard is conscious and in a big Space Chamber, why would the mental image of innocence from her dreams be the one projected onto the Reaper King?  Would't she see a shadow, or even herself?

Not to invoke the "bad writan" card, but I think it's pretty clear that Bioware was not expecting the fan response that the catalyst received. I think the way Shepard was acting in the orignal endings -- cooperative, apart from one objection -- is how they believed fans would react to him. Needless to say, they miscalculated big time.

EC tries to rectify this by having Shepard challenge the catalyst more, even granting players the option to tell him off, and also makes the catalyst more cooperative yet. But to many fans, the catalyst is not part of the solution (dead Reapers *only*) thus part of the problem, and always will be. So that child representation simply won't jive for all players.

[Davik Kang]

Sion1138 wrote...

You are absolutely right Mr. Kang. A dream or hallucination is indeed the only sensible explanation, except perhaps uninspired, inadequately thought-through writing.

Which is more likely? I'm not entirely sure, though the exposition so far has me leaning ever more sharply towards the latter.

Nice contribution well done A+

Wayning_Star wrote...
"... circling round the idea that at least some kind of mental manipulation is going on - ..."

bold italics promote the intent. To infer control from some kind of deception.... i. e. canon fodder?

Ok, just to be clear:

if people are insisting that the ReaperChild chose the image of the Kid, then that is mental manipulation, irrespective of either the purpose or the ultimate goal behind it;

and if people are suggesting that the image is merely that of Shepard's subconscious, I am saying that makes no sense whatsoever - that Shepard would relay an image representative of (her own) guilt and (the death of) innocent lives - unless they are also suggesting that Shepard had subliminally already begun to feel some sympathy with the Reapers themselves.

This suggestion isn't actually entirely absurd - for example, one possible interpretation of The Dreams is that the Kid actually already represents the Reapers, who are now running scared from Shepard - but I'd say it's unlikely to be the main point of the dreams.

But again, I must bring up as before - if we concede that, either way, the Child appears at the end as some kind of mental projection, then how do we know where the mental projection ends?  How can we be sure that anything in that final room is real?  I know you could go all philosophy on this and extend this question to the entire game, but I refer specifically to the end because of how many other unreal elements there are.

A tube that can be shot to kill everything?  Keeper-shaped control panels surging with electrical energy that allow for sentient conversion to AI-based control of the Reapers?  A big green beam that magics everything into one consciousness?  Large rifle-shaped 1M1 contructs?  A space chamber at the connection point of the Crucible and Citadel?