230 réponses à ce sujet

[Davik Kang]

scottishrebel23 wrote...

Look at the indoctranation theory its to have an effect on shepard to show the ones who have been lost

Yeah that's arguably why he takes the Child's form, but that doesn't depend on the Indoctrination Theory and doesn't explain how he would be able to do this if the scene is otherwise real - it still leaves many confusing or contradictory elements which is what we're looking at here.

[InvincibleHero]

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance. The child was on Shepard's mind throughout the game so psychologically projecting his guilt onto his enemy is possible. Sheaprd is torn over the losses and hangs them at the enemy's feet. Might be that simple.

[o Ventus]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Vigil did most certainly not have a human appearance.

[Eryri]

o Ventus wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Vigil did most certainly not have a human appearance.

Good point. Vendetta also appears as a Prothean, not as a human. As one might expect as it was built by, and to interact with Protheans. Human built VIs, look like humans for the same reason.

If the Catalyst was built by the Leviathans, why doesn't it take their form? 

Modifié par Eryri, 26 janvier 2013 - 10:25 .

[Mr.House]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Uh what? Vigil did not take any appearance. He was a static ball.

[InvincibleHero]

o Ventus wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Vigil did most certainly not have a human appearance.

Sorry the one on Feros my mistake.

[Mr.House]

InvincibleHero wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Vigil did most certainly not have a human appearance.

Sorry the one on Feros my mistake.

That was a human VI created by humans. Just like the human VI on Novaria. Avina was an asari creation and looks like an asari. Vis are made in the form of their creator.

Modifié par Mr.House, 26 janvier 2013 - 10:30 .

[bleetman]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Let's play "spot the human".

Here's a hint: it's not on the left.

[GreyLycanTrope]

bleetman wrote...


Let's play "spot the human".

Here's a hint: it's not on the left.

Not sure what you mean, I totally look like that orange guy on the left, doesn't everyone?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 26 janvier 2013 - 10:28 .

[Davik Kang]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it.
...The child was on Shepard's mind throughout the game so psychologically projecting his guilt onto his enemy is possible. Sheaprd is torn over the losses and hangs them at the enemy's feet. Might be that simple.

Yes indeed it could well be that simple.  However as it is the final scene to a massive trilogy that was in the making for nearly a decade, I suspect it was not that simple.  But nevertheless you could be right.  Yours I guess would be the most straightforward explanation, and hence is probably a good starting point.

Yate wrote...

You're getting it backwards.

The Catalyst doesn't take the form of the kid because Shepard dreamed about the kid.

Shepard dreamed about the kid because the Catalyst is taking the form of the kid.

Possible.  In that case are you saying that the Child was never there even in Vancouver, but was in fact a projection by the Reapers from the beginning?  In which case, what purpose would it ultimately come to serve?

[iOnlySignIn]

Because kids are stupid, annoying, and think they know everything.

Just like the Catalyst.

[Wayning_Star]

Eryri wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Vigil did most certainly not have a human appearance.

Good point. Vendetta also appears as a Prothean, not as a human. As one might expect as it was built to interact with Protheans. Human built VIs look like humans, and Avina looks like an Asari. (I'm not sure if that was because they installed her on the Citadel after they discovered it, or whether Avina already existed on the Citadel when they arrived.)

If the Catalyst was built by the Leviathans, why doesn't it take their form? 

the Levi created the intelligence, who became the catalyst, who is, an independent agent. Shep is there to alter the plans of the catalyst form of preservation, or harvest as the objective is to end/limit chaos. Shep is frustrating that purpose by wishing to destroy the reapers,who in turn, are the catalyst's worker bees. The crucible is designed to make the connection between organics and synthetics via the citadel, that is admittedly "part" of of the catalyst,as are the reaperships. 

The catalyst would be more interested in the human Shepard and why the interference with harvest. Not Levi,who it considers as harvested.  I'm thinking it's more of a coincidence that the catalsyt comes at Shep as a human boy, why not a human girl or an old friend or associate like the Levi utilized during their encounter under water.

The OP assigns the act of this to be a considerable burden on the story as it's less explained as utilized for descriptors to the catalyst/reaper intent. To undermine Shep's objective to destroy reapers. Most Shep picks the destroy choice,as the story infers that is the basis for Sheps existence,as that is the main thrust of the two previous episodes.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 26 janvier 2013 - 10:39 .

[Wayning_Star]

differenciate the reapers from the catalyst. Two seperate, yet jointed character types.

[InvincibleHero]

Mr.House wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Vigil did most certainly not have a human appearance.

Sorry the one on Feros my mistake.

That was a human VI created by humans. Just like the human VI on Novaria. Avia was an asari creation and looks like an asari. Vis are made in the form of their creator.

Didn't it take krogan form when speaking to them. Might just be bad memory since I haven't played it since the year it came out. That VI seemed beyond human technology.  Exogeni Corp was built on prothean ruins after all.

Well any case it still remain Shepard is the one seeing "star child" as that. He is probably in a very disoriented state, lost blood, wounded, and maybe a head injury or two like a concussion. He projects the human appearance onto the glowing light. I highly doubt some electrons or photons could read a human mind. At least without direct interfacing. Who knows maybe that was done offscreen when Shepard was passed out.

[Wayning_Star]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maybe you got it wrong. He appears as the child because that is how shepard sees it. Just like vigil took on a human appearance.

Vigil did most certainly not have a human appearance.

Sorry the one on Feros my mistake.

That was a human VI created by humans. Just like the human VI on Novaria. Avia was an asari creation and looks like an asari. Vis are made in the form of their creator.

Didn't it take krogan form when speaking to them. Might just be bad memory since I haven't played it since the year it came out. That VI seemed beyond human technology.  Exogeni Corp was built on prothean ruins after all.

Well any case it still remain Shepard is the one seeing "star child" as that. He is probably in a very disoriented state, lost blood, wounded, and maybe a head injury or two like a concussion. He projects the human appearance onto the glowing light. I highly doubt some electrons or photons could read a human mind. At least without direct interfacing. Who knows maybe that was done offscreen when Shepard was passed out.

folks are 'alluding to' a little too much it seems.. probably the games fault,as the story is ripe with 'allusions'..

[bleetman]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Didn't it take krogan form when speaking to them. Might just be bad memory since I haven't played it since the year it came out.

No, it didn't.

[Wayning_Star]

the catalyst is seeking Right of asylum , I would if the Levi were out for me..

[InvincibleHero]

Wayning_Star wrote...

folks are 'alluding to' a little too much it seems.. probably the games fault,as the story is ripe with 'allusions'..

I agree it doesn't help that the writers seemed to backtrack from the you're all human and you're you 100% the same Shepard post-Lazerus proclamations to you are a blend of synthetic and organic in ME 3.

[Wayning_Star]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

folks are 'alluding to' a little too much it seems.. probably the games fault,as the story is ripe with 'allusions'..

I agree it doesn't help that the writers seemed to backtrack from the you're all human and you're you 100% the same Shepard post-Lazerus proclamations to you are a blend of synthetic and organic in ME 3.

setting Shep up for 'the kill' as it were.. Push destroy, demand the save... strang ball game...and I'm not all that about sport broadcasts..



edit: when in doubt, it's always the butler..either the keepers or the Levi's.. I vote Levi's..they defininately got the motive, had it for billions of years, according to lore'n codextuals.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 26 janvier 2013 - 10:53 .

[Wayning_Star]

come to think of it.. the Leviathan are probably really really really REALLY pissed off over the harvest'n such...

[Davik Kang]

InvincibleHero wrote...
Well any case it still remain Shepard is the one seeing "star child" as that. He is probably in a very disoriented state, lost blood, wounded, and maybe a head injury or two like a concussion. He projects the human appearance onto the glowing light. I highly doubt some electrons or photons could read a human mind. At least without direct interfacing. Who knows maybe that was done offscreen when Shepard was passed out.

Yep like I said before you could be right, and it's one of the most starightforward answers, though Shepard's exhausted state also improves the likelihood of the scene being made of more than just the one hallucination, perhaps even a very serious one, seeing as she's passed out repeatedly already.  And that's not to mention the Magic Elevator, which appears out of nowhere, and appears to move directly vertically, even though the apparent 'white glowy hole' that just opened wasn't directly above Shepard's collapsed body... and then of course this strangely curved elevator of white light disappears as mysteriously as it had appeared...

[InvincibleHero]

It would have been great if Shepard could say "You're wrong I'm not a machine, I'm human. You're a machine and machines can be broken. Oh nostalgia for that line. People really had hate for that trash talking line.

In any case even if he has non-organic parts the human mind is in control of Shepard. No indoctrination at worst delerium or hallucinations brought about by the trauma.

Maybe the child was indoctrinated hence why catalyst takes on his form and why the child acted as he did. "You can't save me." Indeed too late if that was the case.

[Davik Kang]

InvincibleHero wrote...

It would have been great if Shepard could say "You're wrong I'm not a machine, I'm human. You're a machine and machines can be broken. Oh nostalgia for that line. People really had hate for that trash talking line.

In any case even if he has non-organic parts the human mind is in control of Shepard. No indoctrination at worst delerium or hallucinations brought about by the trauma.

Maybe the child was indoctrinated hence why catalyst takes on his form and why the child acted as he did. "You can't save me." Indeed too late if that was the case.

Well yeah that last bit is similar to what Gervaise suggested.

Delerium and hallucinations brought on by the trauma - yeah another definite possiblity.  In such an example the ending can be explained as imaginary without having to necessarily infer IT.

They're all interesting ideas, and they're not plucked out of anywhere either, there's certainly stuff that points to each with a degree of plausibility

[StarcloudSWG]

The reason it looks like a human child is because the *writers* wanted to manipulate the *players*, not because it makes sense in the story.

[Nimrodell]

If I were the Catalyst, the superior AI that can read minds and is trying to communicate with other type of sentient being, the one that has emotions, I'd take up on form that can be both familiar and can address deepest feelings. Shepard suffers from PTSD (and no matter what people here say, PTSD dreaming looks a lot like ME3 Shepard's dreams - trust me on that one) and the boy represents all life and innocence that is lost (one minute the boy is playing with his toy, happily, not aware of imminent destruction and death - the next one, the boy will die along the others while watching Normandy taking off).

So as the one who's trying to communicate and to actually point out the severity of each decision and the need for the choice to be made - as the Catalyst - I'd take up similar action - to remind Shepard on what can be lost and what can be gained. That is, if we can assume that the Catalyst understands the complexity of communication between different types of sentient beings.