25 réponses à ce sujet

[Tybo]

When using Incendiary Ammo (IA) and setting off Fire Explosions (FE), there is a detrimental bug.  If you set off a FE, the 0 damage DoT effect from the FE will stack with the IA DoT.  This can happen in 2 ways

A) The FE DoT takes effect with no IA DoT.  This can happen if you set off the FE on the last tick of the IA DoT, or if you set off the FE with powers before shooting at it.  If this happens, the bugged, 4 second FE DoT will absorb the IA DoT, causing your IA to do 0 damage for the following shot and all future shots, unless you wait 3 seconds for the IA DoT to dissipate.  

The IA DoT is still active when the FE DoT occurs.  If this happens, you're safe.  Keep shooting the target, and the IA DoT will continue to stack.

So, if you want lots of explosions, shoot the target once after a FE.  This will set the DoT timer to 3 seconds, and if you wait 3 seconds you can reprime again (don't know why you'd do that, really, but...just fyi).  

Alternatively, if you make sure you don't detonate without having shot it in the last second or 2, and never stop shooting for more than 3 seconds, you can continue to stack up the IA DoT, while setting off 1 FE.  Because the IA DoT never refreshes, you can't set off another FE.

The easiest way to trigger the bug is to use IA on a class that can create its own FEs.  If you do use IA on such a class, be careful not to set off a FE without shooting the target first.   Doing so will avoid the glitch which causes your IA to do 0 damage.

Modifié par tyhw, 27 janvier 2013 - 06:29 .

[me0120]

I'm going to have to really try to pay attention to this in-game.

[BridgeBurner]

This is why sometimes it's impossible to get multiple fire explosions on the same target!

[Stahlhammer]

Annomander wrote...

This is why sometimes it's impossible to get multiple fire explosions on the same target!

Yes, noticed that too and few times tried to figure out how it works, but mostly got killed in the process. 

[Arctican]

 I know it's unrelated to MP, but any theory as to why Concussive Shot with the Amplification evolution with Incendiary Ammo present can chain self-detonate Fire Explosions?

[Serker31]

Arctican wrote...

 I know it's unrelated to MP, but any theory as to why Concussive Shot with the Amplification evolution with Incendiary Ammo present can chain self-detonate Fire Explosions?

I think Concussion Shot will detonate fiery combo on itself, without even using Amplification evo. But Aplification causes it to apply common Incendiary Ammo after its usual effect and detonation.

[Arctican]

Serker31 wrote...

Arctican wrote...

 I know it's unrelated to MP, but any theory as to why Concussive Shot with the Amplification evolution with Incendiary Ammo present can chain self-detonate Fire Explosions?

I think Concussion Shot will detonate fiery combo on itself, without even using Amplification evo. But Aplification causes it to apply common Incendiary Ammo after its usual effect and detonation.

I know CS can detonate FE by just casting it on burning health and armor, but it cannot do so again after a while like what the test shows. I'm curious as to why Amplification ignores this.

[Serker31]

Arctican wrote...
I know CS can detonate FE by just casting it on burning health and armor, but it cannot do so again after a while like what the test shows. I'm curious as to why Amplification ignores this.

Last enemy killed in your vid. He didn't exploded. From the game point of view, you detonate fiery explosion with Incendiary ammo and CS, everything is legit. Concussion shot will apply new IA effect after detonation, and that's what makes it tick.

Modifié par Serker31, 27 janvier 2013 - 08:43 .

[Arctican]

Serker31 wrote...

Arctican wrote...
I know CS can detonate FE by just casting it on burning health and armor, but it cannot do so again after a while like what the test shows. I'm curious as to why Amplification ignores this.

Last enemy killed in your vid. He didn't exploded. From the game point of view, you detonate fiery explosion with Incendiary ammo and CS, everything is legit.

Check this out then. 

[Tybo]

Arctican wrote...

 I know it's unrelated to MP, but any theory as to why Concussive Shot with the Amplification evolution with Incendiary Ammo present can chain self-detonate Fire Explosions?

That is rather curious.  I would not have suspected that to work...

I don't know.  I haven't a clue why that works like that.

[Serker31]

Arctican wrote...
Check this out then. 

And what I must see there? By the way, I suppose this guy stripped Atlas shields with same trick, but with Disruptor Ammo. Also, I ninja-edited my post above.

[Arctican]

Serker31 wrote...

Arctican wrote...
Check this out then. 

And what I must see there? By the way, I suppose this guy stripped Atlas shields with same trick, but with Disruptor Ammo. Also, I ninja-edited my post above.

Even if you reapply with weapons in MP, you need allow time for the first DOT to run its course before you can set off another FE. Amplified concussive shot completely ignores this.

[Kalas Magnus]

thnx for the info.

[Serker31]

Arctican wrote...
Even if you reapply with weapons in MP, you need allow time for the first DOT to run its course before you can set off another FE. Amplified concussive shot completely ignores this.

I see... I guess CS refreshes IA DoT instead of adding to it for some reason. I believe it may be figured out by testing, but we need a volunteer.

[Tybo]

Serker31 wrote...

Arctican wrote...
Even if you reapply with weapons in MP, you need allow time for the first DOT to run its course before you can set off another FE. Amplified concussive shot completely ignores this.

I see... I guess CS refreshes IA DoT instead of adding to it for some reason. I believe it may be figured out by testing, but we need a volunteer.

No, this one won't matter.  Multiplayer Concussive Shot doesn't have the Amplification evo.

[Tybo]

Ok, new theory on the CS Amplification.

I'm fairly certain that the CS Amplification is applying a new DoT every time instead of stacking like IA does. This can be seen by how rapidly the health bar blinks after the second CS is applied. Normal DoT ticks are every .5 seconds, which fits with the health bar blinking speed after 1 hit. After the second hit, the bar is blinking very rapidly, likely due to it having 2 separate DoT effects from IA on it. That explains why you are able to chain detonate it.

[Flambrose]

This does explain the inconsistent results I've seen with incendiary DoT. Sometimes the DoT is cancelled after exploding and sometimes it persists.

It might be worth a try to use incendiary ammo for its single detonation and ammo damage, but I feel disruptor might still be the way to go for Slayer/Manguard/HS. You can't get more than one fire explosion per 3 seconds in any way, correct?

[spudspot]

So against bosses who have lost their shields it's better to do: PD > FE > Hurricane > PD etc. instead of PD > PD > PD and so on?

Very helpful!

[Tybo]

Flambrose wrote...

This does explain the inconsistent results I've seen with incendiary DoT. Sometimes the DoT is cancelled after exploding and sometimes it persists.

It might be worth a try to use incendiary ammo for its single detonation and ammo damage, but I feel disruptor might still be the way to go for Slayer/Manguard/HS. You can't get more than one fire explosion per 3 seconds in any way, correct?

No, there's no way to get more than 1 FE per 3 seconds with IA.  

That said, I'm not convinced that disruptor is necessarily better.  I've tried both.   The amount of ammo damage done to armor is non-trivial, and they are roughly equal for eliminating mooks.  I'd say...it depends.

Ammo damage explosions only do 591 damage on gold.  So for disruptor to be better, 591*x > Ammodam*x+1182, assuming you set off an explosion for every shot, against armor, where x is the number of shots.  Killing bosses just seems faster to me with incendiary, though that may not actually be true.   

Also, your thread did somewhat inspire this test.  If I remember correctly, you also convinced me to test cluster grenades.  So good job!  2/2.  You belong on PC:D

[Deerber]

tyhw wrote...

Flambrose wrote...

This does explain the inconsistent results I've seen with incendiary DoT. Sometimes the DoT is cancelled after exploding and sometimes it persists.

It might be worth a try to use incendiary ammo for its single detonation and ammo damage, but I feel disruptor might still be the way to go for Slayer/Manguard/HS. You can't get more than one fire explosion per 3 seconds in any way, correct?

No, there's no way to get more than 1 FE per 3 seconds with IA.  

That said, I'm not convinced that disruptor is necessarily better.  I've tried both.   The amount of ammo damage done to armor is non-trivial, and they are roughly equal for eliminating mooks.  I'd say...it depends.

Ammo damage explosions only do 591 damage on gold.  So for disruptor to be better, 591*x > Ammodam*x+1182, assuming you set off an explosion for every shot, against armor, where x is the number of shots.  Killing bosses just seems faster to me with incendiary, though that may not actually be true.   

Also, your thread did somewhat inspire this test.  If I remember correctly, you also convinced me to test cluster grenades.  So good job!  2/2.  You belong on PC:D

First of all thanks for the info, Tyhw, it's very helpful 

Then, on the topic of incendiary ammo vs disruptor ammo, I'd lke to ask a question. It may be a dumb one, but better to ask... Do disruptor ammos prime for tech bursts even when fired against non-synthetic ammo? I ask this, cause I just can't seem to get any kill from TB on Brutes, Ravagers and the like, using disruptors. It may be that I'm not noticing them of course, but... Does anyone have solid knoledge on that?

Also, I'd like to add, that Fire explosions also have a force component, and thus stagger. Tech bursts do not. For some classes, that's a huge prop to use incendiary over disruptor.

[Julian Skies]

Deerber I forget whoever was it that did some solo speedrun using Slayer against Cerberus, but watch that video closely. He gets a variety of Tech Burst kills in that game since he is using Disruptor Ammo, most notable are his Tech Burst kills against Phantoms.

Edit: Hilarious, that solo was yours

Modifié par Julian Skies, 27 janvier 2013 - 01:42 .

[Deerber]

Julian Skies wrote...

Deerber I forget whoever was it that did some solo speedrun using Slayer against Cerberus, but watch that video closely. He gets a variety of Tech Burst kills in that game since he is using Disruptor Ammo, most notable are his Tech Burst kills against Phantoms.

Edit: Hilarious, that solo was yours

Haha yeah it's probably mine you're talking about. And yeah sure, disruptors definitely works on organic health. From what I can tell visually, they also prime dragoons, so normally I wouldn't even ask...

But in all the games I've played with disruptors on the slayer, I've never seen a kill by TB on a Brute, Ravager, or the like. It may be a coincidence, it may be me being sloppy, whatever... But I figured I'd ask 

[Flambrose]

tyhw wrote...

No, there's no way to get more than 1 FE per 3 seconds with IA.  

That said, I'm not convinced that disruptor is necessarily better.  I've tried both.   The amount of ammo damage done to armor is non-trivial, and they are roughly equal for eliminating mooks.  I'd say...it depends.

Ammo damage explosions only do 591 damage on gold.  So for disruptor to be better, 591*x > Ammodam*x+1182, assuming you set off an explosion for every shot, against armor, where x is the number of shots.  Killing bosses just seems faster to me with incendiary, though that may not actually be true.   

Also, your thread did somewhat inspire this test.  If I remember correctly, you also convinced me to test cluster grenades.  So good job!  2/2.  You belong on PC:D

Mm.. Knowing that it's possible to keep incendiary damage going even despite the bug, I think incendiary rounds deserve more credit than I give them. As far as mook killing goes, I'd give the edge to disruptor due to the shield/barrier/health damage it does. Against bosses, the incendiary would likely make up the difference in combo damage. Should note that tech bursts and disruptor will strip the shielding off a boss pretty handily though.

In the end, I'd say disruptor wins purely for economical reasons I have many builds that use incendiary for boss damage output, but not too many that do well with disruptor.

I can't really take credit for finding the incendiary bug, but thanks for testing both of these Unfortunately I'll be stuck on PS3 until ME4 comes out. Dat manifest and whatnot.

[Flambrose]

Deerber wrote...

But in all the games I've played with disruptors on the slayer, I've never seen a kill by TB on a Brute, Ravager, or the like. It may be a coincidence, it may be me being sloppy, whatever... But I figured I'd ask 

You can get tech bursts on anything with disruptor. I get them all the time on my QFE vs Reapers

[UnknownMercenary]

So, on a Krogan Soldier, I want to shoot, IG, then Carnage?

Or IG, shoot, Carnage? Because I usually go IG, Carnage, shoot.

Also, does this mean the bonus damage is not done? Because I thought Incendiary ammo did the listed damage as a bonus as well as that % being damage over time, unless I am mistaken.