86 réponses à ce sujet

[Haargel]

Archonsg wrote...

Lets look at facts.
Shepard was caught in an explosion. This is not in question.
So how powerful was the kinetic momentum force at the location where Shepard was found?
Taking a cue from the broken rubble, Concrete requires roughly 5 mega pascals or about 700psi to cut a 150mm x 150mm x 150mm un-reinforced cube.

For Megastructures of size like that of the Citadel, reinforced concrete would be used, though in the MEU, we have "Ferocrete" of which actual properties are unknown. But, it would be logical it would be magnitudes in term of strength, tensile load as well as elasplasticy.

Now coming back to the rubble, we know you need at least 700 psi to crack un-reinforced concrete, we know it only takes about 17 psi to crack a human skull, much less to severe human weak points such as elbow joints and the neck and we know the "Ferocrete" is far more stronger than even reinforced concrete.

In other words, that explosion would have this happen in sequence, Shepard's arm that was exposed at the elbow where it meets the part of the arm armor still intact and Shepard's head and neck where he doesn't have any protection are first sheared off from his body.

Then the joints of his limbs are sheared off leaving the torso more or less intact.
Well actually, "intact" is only relative since it would suffer immense kinetic force transferal through the armor.

Shepard's organs and intestines are more or less pulverized.

Bones, his entire skeletal structure will suffer impact stress. Very likely shattering multiple locations including his spine.

And of course with his head and arm missing, bleed out in about a minute.

That is reality.
For anyone who wants to trump the reality card. You either accept this or discard it and in doing so, all arguments about the game being "realistic" altogether.
You can't have it both ways.
And yes, this is a common war injury.

This is a case where the writers thought what is "cool" trumping what is realistic. Unfortunately, it goes so far past the "wtf?!" end of the scale, it does break one's suspension of disbelief. Or, if you want to maintain that suspension, then you better not quote what can be "realistic" as a basis for anything.

Good point and I completely agree, however :

This is a videogame set in a fictional universe with powers not completely understood. Reality doesn´t apply in Mass Effect.

So Anakin should have died when he lost all his limbs and got burned. Reality would be that anyone died.

Again. Reality does not apply in SF. Or fantasy or whatever.

[SirLugash]

norcalgamer wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

I don't know where Shepard is, I only
know that being on the Citadel seems ridiculous. After shooting the tube
in the destroy ending, you can somewhat see that after the explosion
that blows Shepard backwards (followed by the activation of the
Crucible) there is no more Shepard (in fact, with Flycam you can see
scorch marks where Shepard stood but I wouldn't count this in).
But
even when Shepard somehow survived that (you know, heavily wounded,
damaged armor, no shields) I'm sure he can't possibly survive that 13+
km wide explosion that follows the beam discharge (not counting any
radiation in).
Also I can't wrap my head around how EMS should affect this.

Higher
EMS means that more of the crucible is intact, making it more
controlled. It means that the explosion from the beam wasn't as strong
if you have a more intact crucible.

On Topic:

The citadel
doesn't explode. The Death Star explodes, the Citadel breaks apart.
There is a huge difference. Like with the relays, they don't exploded,
they just break apart.

The reason people say Earth, is because
the rubble looks like concrete. It could have been an over site. Maybe
they thought it would look better.

You have to suspend logic for
this scene. Just like when Shepard was brought back to life after being
spaced and colliding with a planet.

EMS affecting the Crucible was only referenced to how it targets Reapers and other Synthetics.
Of course on low EMS Earth gets incinerated but even on highest EMS (Shep breath scene) these explosions occur.
Even if the first one didn't kill him and just pushed him back, it's highly unlikely that that he was able to get to safety in one of those shelters in time (reaching the wards is at least a 6,5+ km walk, with his injuries and probably no way of transportation...).

And yes the Citadel didn't "blow up", but again the crucial point is the the huge fireball that engulfs the Presidium Ring (ground zero where Shep is most likely located).

[Peranor]

Haargel wrote...

Good point and I completely agree, however :

This is a videogame set in a fictional universe with powers not completely understood. Reality doesn´t apply in Mass Effect.

So Anakin should have died when he lost all his limbs and got burned. Reality would be that anyone died.

Again. Reality does not apply in SF. Or fantasy or whatever.

True. Our reality does not apply to Mass Effect.

However... from what we know about the reality of the Mass Effect universe. Shepard should not be able to survive that explosion.

So no, not even within the laws and rules of the Mass Effect universe it makes sense that someone should be able to survice that. Not even Shepard.


Everything can't be handwaved by saying "it's sci-fi" or "it's fantasy". Even works of fiction has rules set out from the beginning that it has to follow. If those rules are broken then suspension of disbelief will be broken as well.

[Haargel]

anorling wrote...

Haargel wrote...

Good point and I completely agree, however :

This is a videogame set in a fictional universe with powers not completely understood. Reality doesn´t apply in Mass Effect.

So Anakin should have died when he lost all his limbs and got burned. Reality would be that anyone died.

Again. Reality does not apply in SF. Or fantasy or whatever.

True. Our reality does not apply to Mass Effect.

However... from what we know about the reality of the Mass Effect universe. Shepard should not be able to survive that explosion.

So no, not even within the laws and rules of the Mass Effect universe it makes sense that someone should be able to survice that. Not even Shepard.


Everything can't be handwaved by saying "it's sci-fi" or "it's fantasy". Even works of fiction has rules set out from the beginning that it has to follow. If those rules are broken then suspension of disbelief will be broken as well.

Also true. It´s all up to the writers though. I´ve seen more ´dead people´ returning from obvious death in soap opera´s then in science fiction

[JasonShepard]

Archonsg wrote...

Lets look at facts.
Shepard was caught in an explosion. This is not in question.
So how powerful was the kinetic momentum force at the location where Shepard was found?
Taking a cue from the broken rubble, Concrete requires roughly 5 mega pascals or about 700psi to cut a 150mm x 150mm x 150mm un-reinforced cube.

For Megastructures of size like that of the Citadel, reinforced concrete would be used, though in the MEU, we have "Ferocrete" of which actual properties are unknown. But, it would be logical it would be magnitudes in term of strength, tensile load as well as elasplasticy.

Now coming back to the rubble, we know you need at least 700 psi to crack un-reinforced concrete, we know it only takes about 17 psi to crack a human skull, much less to severe human weak points such as elbow joints and the neck and we know the "Ferocrete" is far more stronger than even reinforced concrete.

In other words, that explosion would have this happen in sequence, Shepard's arm that was exposed at the elbow where it meets the part of the arm armor still intact and Shepard's head and neck where he doesn't have any protection are first sheared off from his body.

Then the joints of his limbs are sheared off leaving the torso more or less intact.
Well actually, "intact" is only relative since it would suffer immense kinetic force transferal through the armor.

Shepard's organs and intestines are more or less pulverized.

Bones, his entire skeletal structure will suffer impact stress. Very likely shattering multiple locations including his spine.

And of course with his head and arm missing, bleed out in about a minute.

That is reality.
For anyone who wants to trump the reality card. You either accept this or discard it and in doing so, all arguments about the game being "realistic" altogether.
You can't have it both ways.
And yes, this is a common war injury.

This is a case where the writers thought what is "cool" trumping what is realistic. Unfortunately, it goes so far past the "wtf?!" end of the scale, it does break one's suspension of disbelief. Or, if you want to maintain that suspension, then you better not quote what can be "realistic" as a basis for anything.

Well argued. HOWEVER you are assuming that the explosion that Shepard was caught in was the same explosion that broke the concrete.
We didn't see the series of events. We don't know exactly what happened. All we know is that the firing chamber exploded, and then the Citadel as a whole began blowing up. And some (not all) of those explosions would have been only damaging for Synthetics.
This is the hardest-to-unlock scene for one specific ending choice. In the vast majority of games, then yes, Shepard it dead / an AI. However, in high-EMS Destroy, maybe Shepard got lucky. Maybe the initial explosion threw him clear, to a place where he was shielded from the main blast. We don't know. It is up to the player exactly what happened.

If the breath scene is Shepard's last breath, good for you.
If the breath scene is Shepard alive amongst the rubble on the Citadel, good for you.
If the breath scene is Shepard waking up in London having fought off Reaper Indoctrination, good for you.
If the breath scene is Shepard waking up in London having survived re-entry after the Citadel exploded, good for you.

The ending is whatever you make of it.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 28 janvier 2013 - 11:32 .

[dorktainian]

gandalf the grey to gandalf the white
john sheridan to john sheridan

anyone see the connections?

[Anduin The Grey]

Just sample hypothexsis, when was the last time someone entered the Catalysts, bedroom, I shall say for lack of a better word. Gotta be the safest place on the Citadel no?

And no, it cannot be your favouite bedroom on the Citadel

[JasonShepard]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Just sample hypothexsis, when was the last time someone entered the Catalysts, bedroom, I shall say for lack of a better word. Gotta be the safest place on the Citadel no?

And no, it cannot be your favouite bedroom on the Citadel

True. But then: 

Catalyst: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever-

Shepard: Err... You mean no-one ever climbed to the bottom of the Citadel before? In thousands of cycles?

(In all seriousness, I think the Catalyst is actually referring to Shepard's successful deployment of the Crucible with that line)

[Anduin The Grey]

JasonShepard wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Just sample hypothexsis, when was the last time someone entered the Catalysts, bedroom, I shall say for lack of a better word. Gotta be the safest place on the Citadel no?

And no, it cannot be your favouite bedroom on the Citadel

True. But then: 

Catalyst: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever-

Shepard: Err... You mean no-one ever climbed to the bottom of the Citadel before? In thousands of cycles?

(In all seriousness, I think the Catalyst is actually referring to Shepard's successful deployment of the Crucible with that line)

The Citadel we see is unrecognisable to the one we're used to, it may take an actual harvest done by the Citadel itself to expose the Catalyst to begin with, which might also explain the Collectors, Catalyst does not get exposed during any harvests which, thanks to Shepard, obviously failed.

[Peranor]

JasonShepard wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Just sample hypothexsis, when was the last time someone entered the Catalysts, bedroom, I shall say for lack of a better word. Gotta be the safest place on the Citadel no?

And no, it cannot be your favouite bedroom on the Citadel

True. But then: 

Catalyst: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever-

Shepard: Err... You mean no-one ever climbed to the bottom of the Citadel before? In thousands of cycles?

(In all seriousness, I think the Catalyst is actually referring to Shepard's successful deployment of the Crucible with that line)

yeah. It's probably the whole situation he is refering to.

[frozn89]

This may sound completely random, but seeing how the beam ejects out of the wherever Shep is, as opposed to in, wouldn`t that also mean that technically, Shep avoids exposure? In other words, his implants remains intact. Granted, for Control and Synthesis he dies, that is a no-brainer, but in Destroy there`s ``just`` the explosion for him/her at least. Unless I`m mistaken

[TheGinosaji]

Gotta be a double teleportation.

• Teleport to London.
• When the rim of the red energy is between the Citadel and London, teleport back to the Citadel.

Only synthetics at the rim of the red energy ball are affected. In this way, Shepard would avoid all contact with the rim. There would be plenty of time after this for a third teleportation back to London to get dressed and perform the breath scene.

Modifié par TheGinosaji, 30 janvier 2013 - 02:49 .