412 réponses à ce sujet

[Caratinoid]

Deerber wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Tomorrow is balance changes day. I see no reason why this can't fixed by tomorrow.

...

Unfortunately, this problem can not be fixed with balance changes.

[Caratinoid]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

I did not experience the game to be significantly easier. Actually more fps made it a bit easier for me because mouse movement is smoother and quickly turning is smoother.

Yes it's a bit difficult to get used to that frame rate and you have to know how to take full advantage of some technics that are possible at that frame rate. Testing this in a solo game will also be more difficult, keep in mind that the game is still challenging at those rates, you are not supposed to just outrun everything, no one said it will make a solo master from everyone, but you can run past an enemy without getting hit if you run perfectly perpendiculair to their line of sight, adrenaline mods are also very usefull here. With adrenaline mod you can just run in circels until your shields recharge. 30 FPS mainly looks like s*** on a TN panel where you get ghosting effects everywhere when you turn your camera around, it's less of an issue on a plasma or an old CRT or any screen with low response time. If you are hosting that means that other players can run at any frame rate they want and will not have to deal with disadvantages of a lower frame rate while playing a much easier game. I can PUG platinum when playing at 30 FPS with 8/10 being full extraction (not talking about rio here), I still have to carry (4x the score of a second player) but at least I can do it at this frame rate and not having to take shield booster and cyclonic means my damage output is much higher, while at 60 FPS and above that is only possible with friends.

[MaxShine]

Caratinoid wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

I did not experience the game to be significantly easier. Actually more fps made it a bit easier for me because mouse movement is smoother and quickly turning is smoother.

Yes it's a bit difficult to get used to that frame rate and you have to know how to take full advantage of some technics that are possible at that frame rate. Testing this in a solo game will also be more difficult, keep in mind that the game is still challenging at those rates, you are not supposed to just outrun everything, no one said it will make a solo master from everyone, but you can run past an enemy without getting hit if you run perfectly perpendiculair to their line of sight, adrenaline mods are also very usefull here. With adrenaline mod you can just run in circels until your shields recharge. 30 FPS mainly looks like s*** on a TN panel where you get ghosting effects everywhere when you turn your camera around, it's less of an issue on a plasma or an old CRT or any screen with low response time. If you are hosting that means that other players can run at any frame rate they want and will not have to deal with disadvantages of a lower frame rate while playing a much easier game. I can PUG platinum when playing at 30 FPS with 8/10 being full extraction (not talking about rio here), I still have to carry (4x the score of a second player) but at least I can do it at this frame rate and not having to take shield booster and cyclonic means my damage output is much higher, while at 60 FPS and above that is only possible with friends.

I already understood that. I am just saying that while at 30fps it is still challenging and you have to know what to do in order to take advantage of the AI, at frame rates around 15fps-25fps all this becomes very obvious... I looks and plays like s**t, but it gets significantly easier. That should be fixed...

Modifié par 100RenegadePoints, 11 février 2013 - 07:40 .

[Caratinoid]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

I did not experience the game to be significantly easier. Actually more fps made it a bit easier for me because mouse movement is smoother and quickly turning is smoother.

Yes it's a bit difficult to get used to that frame rate and you have to know how to take full advantage of some technics that are possible at that frame rate. Testing this in a solo game will also be more difficult, keep in mind that the game is still challenging at those rates, you are not supposed to just outrun everything, no one said it will make a solo master from everyone, but you can run past an enemy without getting hit if you run perfectly perpendiculair to their line of sight, adrenaline mods are also very usefull here. With adrenaline mod you can just run in circels until your shields recharge. 30 FPS mainly looks like s*** on a TN panel where you get ghosting effects everywhere when you turn your camera around, it's less of an issue on a plasma or an old CRT or any screen with low response time. If you are hosting that means that other players can run at any frame rate they want and will not have to deal with disadvantages of a lower frame rate while playing a much easier game. I can PUG platinum when playing at 30 FPS with 8/10 being full extraction (not talking about rio here), I still have to carry (4x the score of a second player) but at least I can do it at this frame rate and not having to take shield booster and cyclonic means my damage output is much higher, while at 60 FPS and above that is only possible with friends.

I already understood that. I am just saying that while at 30fps it is still challenging and you have to know what to do in order to take advantage of the AI, at frame rates around 15fps-25fps all this becomes very obvious... I looks and plays like s**t, but it gets significantly easier. That should be fixed...

I don't think anything lower than 30 FPS is much of a problem, if someone can't run at that frame rate then he is most probably playing on a system below the minimum system requirements anyway and should have bought a console version of the game instead of torturing his old pc. The effects on AI are even worse than I have described here if you go under 30 FPS, this is especially noticeable if you are not the host.

The game however should behave the same in a range between 30 and 120 FPS.

[Caratinoid]

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

Modifié par Caratinoid, 11 février 2013 - 10:36 .

[MaxShine]

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

What is still missing is the video that at 60 or more fps you get absolutely shot to pieces doing this, if I were to do exactely this on my game settings I would get owned so hard by the assault troopers... I might even add this video to this useful thread...

[PyroByte]

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

At 0:20 in the video, it looks like the Nemesis actually hits your shields and you're down to shieldgate but  the HUD isn't updating (still shows full shields). There is even the effect of your shields bursting visible and hearable (hard to tell with the music).

Modifié par PyroByte, 11 février 2013 - 11:19 .

[Bon3zz1001]

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

[Greyze2k]

Caratinoid wrote...
Well, maybe you should try playing at those framerates now, looks like you have some catching up to do, good news is that the ladder bug doesn't happen anymore.

OMG

Never knew about this! damn! Back to 120fps when I get home

[Caratinoid]

@Greyze2k

There are still a few other bugs though:

Powers from hard cover still don't work but you can press your aim button first as a workaround.
Any kit with less than 450 shields can not recharge it's shields at all, the only workaround is to put more points in fitness.

[HolyAvenger]

Played on Caratinoid's host last night. First game with Krentinel was fine but that's a tank kit anyway.

Then tried Valkyrie (was levelling my Sentinels). Died a bit more than I usually do, not sure if playing at 120 FPS or lag (seemed to get lag spikes sometimes, AF wasn't priming properly, kept screwing up my BE rhythm).

Have to try a Drell kit next time...

[Caratinoid]

@HolyAvenger

The effects would be even more visible if it wasn't a reaper game, the fact that I was spamming grenades on my destroyer staggering pretty much everything every 5 seconds probably had something to do here as well.

Looks like shield gate is also less effective, makes sense considering it's only 10 ms on gold with a frame time of around 8 ms for 120 FPS that will not block more than one bullet. For 30 FPS you have 33 ms of frame time so your effective shield gate is probably also at least 33 ms depending on how it's calculated.

About lag spikes, those might have something to do with 120FPS not sure yet but it will make you send more data that's for sure.

[llandwynwyn]

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

I just tried to do the same on my pc and I died so fast it wasn't even funny.

[niripas]

I just had a quick match against geth. My geth engie could run circles around Prime, 3 pyros and hunter. Rocket troopers were missing even from like 2 meters. And I just set the cap to 30 fps...

[Dorryn]

So to get this straight : the framerate that matters is that of the host right? The other players in the player can use whatever framerate they want?

[Caratinoid]

Dorryn wrote...

So to get this straight : the framerate that matters is that of the host right? The other players in the player can use whatever framerate they want?

Yes, clients can run at any frame rate they want without affecting the game. Frame rate of the clients however also determines how much data per second will be send to the host so having a high frame rate can cause network issues in some cases such as rubber banding especially if you have a high ping or the host is too slow and can not process the incoming data in time, setting a lower frame rate seems to help in those cases.

[GunWraith]

I can always tell when someone drops and I get to be the new host, the difficulty level almost seems to ramp up to the next tier.

[upinya slayin]

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

[Sir_Alan_]

Interesting read...

[N7-RedFox]

The game feels easier for me to play at 120fps coz it cuts down lag and animations are smoother. Less things look like they are teleporting and there are far less jitters than at 60fps and way way less than at 30fps. I find it much easier to kill phantoms playing at 120fps on host than I do playing at 60fps off host

[Deerber]

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

And here I was... Hoping the children were gone from this thread. Sigh.

[Dunvi]

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

Most players don't have crappy PCs, though, they have PCs that are at least as powerful as a console. I can't even zigzag away from enemies most of the time. Most players are probably playing at 45-60 fps, this game is fairly well optimized and doesn't need high specs to get good fps.

[upinya slayin]

Deerber wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

And here I was... Hoping the children were gone from this thread. Sigh.

right? do you ever have anything positive to say? nope didn't think so:P

[upinya slayin]

Dunvi wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

Most players don't have crappy PCs, though, they have PCs that are at least as powerful as a console. I can't even zigzag away from enemies most of the time. Most players are probably playing at 45-60 fps, this game is fairly well optimized and doesn't need high specs to get good fps.

yes i would assume most PC players have pretty decent PCs but they can change the difficulty by using resources, modding framerates etc. there is nobaseline difficulty on a PC due to the way the game is structered. Last time i played a game on PC was bioshock 1, and i did it suing an xbox controller on a farily new laptop at the time (dell studio 15, dual core 2.1GHZ processor, 6GB ram) mor ethen enough power to run taht agme, and the game was the easiest FPS i ever played. But tahts nt the point. the point is that you can't create a baseline with 2 many variables. and your PC might be great but what if you PUG it and the host has a crappy one? it makes an easy game for you then. With consoles the difficulty is teh same across the board due to the fact they all have the same specs and the game is made to run in its optimal difficulty designed by the devs on it.

The whole discusion came form the UR3 engine discussion and its effect on dificulty in comparasion to framrate. Now i'm not gonna pretend to be some expert on the matter cause i'm not. All i can go by is what i see in videos and some of the videos i watch like the linked one in the thread make me laugh, cause that is nowhere near how it is to play on an xbox.

[GunWraith]

upinya slayin wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

Most players don't have crappy PCs, though, they have PCs that are at least as powerful as a console. I can't even zigzag away from enemies most of the time. Most players are probably playing at 45-60 fps, this game is fairly well optimized and doesn't need high specs to get good fps.

yes i would assume most PC players have pretty decent PCs but they can change the difficulty by using resources, modding framerates etc. there is nobaseline difficulty on a PC due to the way the game is structered. Last time i played a game on PC was bioshock 1, and i did it suing an xbox controller on a farily new laptop at the time (dell studio 15, dual core 2.1GHZ processor, 6GB ram) mor ethen enough power to run taht agme, and the game was the easiest FPS i ever played. But tahts nt the point. the point is that you can't create a baseline with 2 many variables. and your PC might be great but what if you PUG it and the host has a crappy one? it makes an easy game for you then. With consoles the difficulty is teh same across the board due to the fact they all have the same specs and the game is made to run in its optimal difficulty designed by the devs on it.

The whole discusion came form the UR3 engine discussion and its effect on dificulty in comparasion to framrate. Now i'm not gonna pretend to be some expert on the matter cause i'm not. All i can go by is what i see in videos and some of the videos i watch like the linked one in the thread make me laugh, cause that is nowhere near how it is to play on an xbox.

The simple fact is that most of the time you will not have a crappy host and they will have above 30FPS. Sadly in my case I will easily hit 60+ on my built machine, so I definitely know the difference when I am hosting. I could mod the game files to lower my FPS, but then I would be basically cheating. I certainly don't want to catch a ban because BW decides capping FPS to alter difficulty is exploiting.

I've had friends that play PS3 and then played PC at my house and they all said the enemy AI is much more brutal on PC. This simply proves the conjecture.