412 réponses à ce sujet

[DoubleHell]

Caratinoid wrote...

Dorryn wrote...

So to get this straight : the framerate that matters is that of the host right? The other players in the player can use whatever framerate they want?

Yes, clients can run at any frame rate they want without affecting the game. Frame rate of the clients however also determines how much data per second will be send to the host so having a high frame rate can cause network issues in some cases such as rubber banding especially if you have a high ping or the host is too slow and can not process the incoming data in time, setting a lower frame rate seems to help in those cases.

Confirmed, and have a seperate thread on rubber-banding issues relating to frame rate (see sig). In a nutshell, if you are far from the host and have a high enough frame rate, the more likely it is that you will experience rubber-banding.

[Dorje Sylas]

Air Quotes wrote...

I wonder why devs refuse to comment on this. This thread is and was on first page for a long time.

Because their game has many fundamental flaws that they have 0 possibility of fixing. If this wasn't BioWare and hadn't been Mass Effect, and was instead Hammerpoint Interactive this would not have remainded rolling for a year now.

[Shampoohorn]

Air Quotes wrote...

I wonder why devs refuse to comment on this. This thread is and was on first page for a long time.

Sometimes they just miss the thread.  Sometimes they want to have something more to say than "huh what?"  Ref. Blade Armor, Collector bugs, Shield Gate, etc.  They really put a lot of time into the Shield Gate question once it got on their radar.  And they interacted with us quite a bit even though their final answer was far from definitive.

If somebody has PM'ed Chris Schanche, then I'm sure he's looking into it.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 14 février 2013 - 08:56 .

[Tybo]

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

Seriously?  I watched your marauder at 2:20.  Just by walking the marauder misses you with an entire burst.  On PC, you would at least have been shieldgated there, if not killed.

Then while you try to aim, he only hits you with part of his 2nd burst, and part of his 3rd burst with you barely moving.  It's amazing you didn't die.  On any PC game I've ever played, you'd be dead there.

[BridgeBurner]

tyhw wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

Seriously?  I watched your marauder at 2:20.  Just by walking the marauder misses you with an entire burst.  On PC, you would at least have been shieldgated there, if not killed.

Then while you try to aim, he only hits you with part of his 2nd burst, and part of his 3rd burst with you barely moving.  It's amazing you didn't die.  On any PC game I've ever played, you'd be dead there.

Lol Ty, "try to aim"

I also love it how in the first video, he stands in clear view, and a marauder fires an entire burst which just completely misses him at 1:48

As for the second video...  Stands still infront ofa bunch of cannibals and marauders and gets shot.... quite what that was supposed to prove I'll never know; close range enemies mowed you down when you were still / hardly moving.

Also, unrelated, but I love Slayin's really professional video skills, dat out of sync audio which would have taken all of 30 seconds to fix prior to upload.

Modifié par Annomander, 14 février 2013 - 09:21 .

[Caratinoid]

DoubleHell wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Dorryn wrote...

So to get this straight : the framerate that matters is that of the host right? The other players in the player can use whatever framerate they want?

Yes, clients can run at any frame rate they want without affecting the game. Frame rate of the clients however also determines how much data per second will be send to the host so having a high frame rate can cause network issues in some cases such as rubber banding especially if you have a high ping or the host is too slow and can not process the incoming data in time, setting a lower frame rate seems to help in those cases.

Confirmed, and have a seperate thread on rubber-banding issues relating to frame rate (see sig). In a nutshell, if you are far from the host and have a high enough frame rate, the more likely it is that you will experience rubber-banding.

Yeah I've been trying to find a variable that controls the ammount of packets sent which is a standard feature for unreal engine games but I really don't have that much time to test these things so no luck so far. That would fix this problem without having to sacrifice the frame rate.

[llandwynwyn]

Air Quotes wrote...

I wonder why devs refuse to comment on this. This thread is and was on first page for a long time.

I doubt they'll fix it now. Too late.

[upinya slayin]

GunWraith wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

Most players don't have crappy PCs, though, they have PCs that are at least as powerful as a console. I can't even zigzag away from enemies most of the time. Most players are probably playing at 45-60 fps, this game is fairly well optimized and doesn't need high specs to get good fps.

yes i would assume most PC players have pretty decent PCs but they can change the difficulty by using resources, modding framerates etc. there is nobaseline difficulty on a PC due to the way the game is structered. Last time i played a game on PC was bioshock 1, and i did it suing an xbox controller on a farily new laptop at the time (dell studio 15, dual core 2.1GHZ processor, 6GB ram) mor ethen enough power to run taht agme, and the game was the easiest FPS i ever played. But tahts nt the point. the point is that you can't create a baseline with 2 many variables. and your PC might be great but what if you PUG it and the host has a crappy one? it makes an easy game for you then. With consoles the difficulty is teh same across the board due to the fact they all have the same specs and the game is made to run in its optimal difficulty designed by the devs on it.

The whole discusion came form the UR3 engine discussion and its effect on dificulty in comparasion to framrate. Now i'm not gonna pretend to be some expert on the matter cause i'm not. All i can go by is what i see in videos and some of the videos i watch like the linked one in the thread make me laugh, cause that is nowhere near how it is to play on an xbox.

The simple fact is that most of the time you will not have a crappy host and they will have above 30FPS. Sadly in my case I will easily hit 60+ on my built machine, so I definitely know the difference when I am hosting. I could mod the game files to lower my FPS, but then I would be basically cheating. I certainly don't want to catch a ban because BW decides capping FPS to alter difficulty is exploiting.

I've had friends that play PS3 and then played PC at my house and they all said the enemy AI is much more brutal on PC. This simply proves the conjecture.

the problem is how do you define difficulty. that perosn could have had issues with controlls. for exampole i went to teh BW event during comicon when they allowed us to play earth DLC. I watched 4 people horible fail on wave 3 of a gold. I dind't say anything i was just waiting but i guess i had a look on my face, when they guy handed me teh controller he said somehting to teh feffect of i'm used to playign on PC and gold never seemed this hard before. another one who had failed before then jumped in and said he hadd issues cause he couldn't do a 180 sweep.  with teh camera. Now i'm not saying its eveyrhting, but in teh same sens ei'm sure if i played on PC my 1st attempt it would feel much harder, its after the inital adjustment when you can really make judgement.

If anything i'd like to hear the opinion of someone who has played both versions extensively (like JK thunder if she's around) since she has both versions and has played both regularly

[upinya slayin]

tyhw wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Having the ability to run away when in danger is crucial for solo runs and playing characters such as fury is much easier if you know how to move. At 60 FPS and above that strategy doesn't work anymore, even running will get you killed. The video above makes it look a bit easier than it is but every turn you make is crucial. You have to move perpendicular to the enemies when they are firing but you can run in any direction between bursts.

I find it amazing that people playing on the console can even die because that right there is an absolute joke. Seriously how could you even die outside of badluck when the enemy can't even hit you 90% of the time.

That video is a joke. makes me think teh game was emant for 60FPS oin PC

http://www.youtube.c..._fH9kMuto#t=65s

watch thata nd how iuse right hand advantage to avoid damage. then at about the 2:20 marker i just stand out to line up a shot and 1 maurder burst almost kills me instantly just form popping out for a second. and wait until the banshees are in the game and i have warp balls chasing me constantly lol but i digress

and if you really want to see the annoting accuracy of even canibals
http://www.youtube.c...fH9kMuto#t=516s

You cant run on xbox away you have to zigzag and hope not to get hit. I've never seen videos on xbox of enemies not ebing agressive but i see tehm on PC all teh time like on taht link. an offical BW statement would be nice, and i don't want to turn it into a console war, but the video is proof. and several PC players have admitted taht if the host has a crappy PC then the game is easy as hell

Seriously?  I watched your marauder at 2:20.  Just by walking the marauder misses you with an entire burst.  On PC, you would at least have been shieldgated there, if not killed.

Then while you try to aim, he only hits you with part of his 2nd burst, and part of his 3rd burst with you barely moving.  It's amazing you didn't die.  On any PC game I've ever played, you'd be dead there.

umm soft cover much? your not sued to teh view of xbox, they can't hit you much on any system when using soft cover. you don't see the soft cover cause i'm scoped in.

I'm sure you guys have seen plenty of xbox vids (caineghis, invaderone, etc) and compare them to teh PC vids and you never see enemies blatently missing like that

[Caratinoid]

llandwynwyn wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I wonder why devs refuse to comment on this. This thread is and was on first page for a long time.

I doubt they'll fix it now. Too late.

Are you saying I should just contact some russian guy who wrote an aimbot for mass effect and pay him to patch the executable, I bet he will be done in a week without having to look at the source code. Things like shield bug can be patched out with a hex editor.

Modifié par Caratinoid, 14 février 2013 - 09:54 .

[Tybo]

Modifié par tyhw, 14 février 2013 - 10:01 .

[BridgeBurner]

Caratinoid wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I wonder why devs refuse to comment on this. This thread is and was on first page for a long time.

I doubt they'll fix it now. Too late.

Are you saying I should just contact some russian guy who wrote an aimbot for mass effect and pay him to patch the executable, I bet he will be done in a week without having to look at the source code. Things like shield bug can be patched out with a hex editor.

I think the point is, you're not "supposed" to be above 60 anyway. Altering something in the files to uncap your frame rate, then encountering problems because of the implications this has (more so than the implications of running at 60 as there is a noticable difference comparing 30 FPS as opposed to 60) isn't worthy of their attention i don't think.

Their silence implies that going over the intended cap for PC was overlooked when they ported ME3 to PC; and as a result there was no "safety net" in place.

It sucks I know, but that's all you'll get I think

Modifié par Annomander, 14 février 2013 - 10:01 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

PC players can actually move the camera while they're running. They can also remap controls however they want. The PC version of the game is easier because of these advantages the PC players get. There is no discernible difference between 30 fps and higher rates.

[Tybo]

 

upinya slayin wrote...

tyhw wrote...
Seriously?  I watched your marauder at 2:20.  Just by walking the marauder misses you with an entire burst.  On PC, you would at least have been shieldgated there, if not killed.

Then while you try to aim, he only hits you with part of his 2nd burst, and part of his 3rd burst with you barely moving.  It's amazing you didn't die.  On any PC game I've ever played, you'd be dead there.

umm soft cover much? your not sued to teh view of xbox, they can't hit you much on any system when using soft cover. you don't see the soft cover cause i'm scoped in.

I'm sure you guys have seen plenty of xbox vids (caineghis, invaderone, etc) and compare them to teh PC vids and you never see enemies blatently missing like that

LOL.  You're telling me that running around the counter and standing in the open as he misses like this is soft cover?





Sometimes, you outdo yourself upinya.  And that's saying a lot.

Edit: made the picture nicer.

Edit 2: screw it, can't make the picture show.  

Edit 3: finally working

Modifié par tyhw, 14 février 2013 - 10:09 .

[llandwynwyn]

Caratinoid wrote...
Things like shield bug can be patched out with a hex editor.

The last ME3 patch we received fixed how many things?

[Caratinoid]

Annomander wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I wonder why devs refuse to comment on this. This thread is and was on first page for a long time.

I doubt they'll fix it now. Too late.

Are you saying I should just contact some russian guy who wrote an aimbot for mass effect and pay him to patch the executable, I bet he will be done in a week without having to look at the source code. Things like shield bug can be patched out with a hex editor.

I think the point is, you're not "supposed" to be above 60 anyway. Altering something in the files to uncap your frame rate, then encountering problems because of the implications this has (more so than the implications of running at 60 as there is a noticable difference comparing 30 FPS as opposed to 60) isn't worthy of their attention i don't think.

Their silence implies that going over the intended cap for PC was overlooked when they ported ME3 to PC; and as a result there was no "safety net" in place.

It sucks I know, but that's all you'll get I think

Any answer is better to silence.

If the effects are visible at the lower rates then there is a problem. If the difficulty is different for each host I join then there is a problem. The difference is so big that I actually choose separate builds and loadouts depending on the host. Rounding bug in shield recharge is noticeble from 30 FPS and up and adds up to almost 2 seconds on top of the intended recharge time. Things like ROF and shield gate are also tied to frame rate.

[upinya slayin]

tyhw wrote...

 

upinya slayin wrote...

tyhw wrote...
Seriously?  I watched your marauder at 2:20.  Just by walking the marauder misses you with an entire burst.  On PC, you would at least have been shieldgated there, if not killed.

Then while you try to aim, he only hits you with part of his 2nd burst, and part of his 3rd burst with you barely moving.  It's amazing you didn't die.  On any PC game I've ever played, you'd be dead there.

umm soft cover much? your not sued to teh view of xbox, they can't hit you much on any system when using soft cover. you don't see the soft cover cause i'm scoped in.

I'm sure you guys have seen plenty of xbox vids (caineghis, invaderone, etc) and compare them to teh PC vids and you never see enemies blatently missing like that

LOL.  You're telling me that running around the counter and standing in the open as he misses like this is soft cover?





Sometimes, you outdo yourself upinya.  And that's saying a lot.

Edit: made the picture nicer.

Edit 2: screw it, can't make the picture show.  

Edit 3: finally working

Lol a picture doens't tell the story of a game.
Your not accouting for lag either which was very apparent i was suffering form a 1-2 second lag during the game. s a shot that looks like it "missed" on my screen actually hit me and will register a second or 2 later. the enemies shoot at where i am on the hosts screen not my screen, which is what makes lag so hard to deal with sometimes. cause i'm not taking any dmage so i think i'm good then i just drop dead.

also i never said enemies are 100% acurate, popping out of soft cover for 1 second rarely gets you hit on any platform, you strafe in and out of it. Try playing halo online eveyrone jumps and starfes back and forth when firing, you know why? its hard to hit a strafing target.

with that said i'm not tryign to turn this into a console war, i just commented on the videos. he ran aorund in circles and never got hit. I was also in a duo in that video meaning not all the enemies were focused on me. the mroe teammates, the less aggro is focused on you. thats universal

[Elecbender]

Ladies and gentlemen...BSN.

[BridgeBurner]

About ROF.... could it possibly be that the ROF bug, which causes the "loss" of shots above 800 RPM which is occurs in "some" weapons, but not all.... could this "bug / problem" exist because of the frame rates?

[Caratinoid]

Annomander wrote...

About ROF.... could it possibly be that the ROF bug, which causes the "loss" of shots above 800 RPM which is occurs in "some" weapons, but not all.... could this "bug / problem" exist because of the frame rates?

Probably yes, everything in unreal engine is calculated per frame, and it looks like there are rounding bugs here and there because of it. I seem to do more damage per clip at a higher frame rate.

Modifié par Caratinoid, 14 février 2013 - 10:42 .

[Daihannya]

Why must we fill this useful thread with bickering? Create a different thread if you want to argue about difficulty and console vs PC. Can we keep this discussion just to the impact of different frame rates and the glitches and behavior it causes on the PC.

[Tybo]

Caratinoid wrote...

Annomander wrote...

About ROF.... could it possibly be that the ROF bug, which causes the "loss" of shots above 800 RPM which is occurs in "some" weapons, but not all.... could this "bug / problem" exist because of the frame rates?

Probably yes, everything in unreal engine is calculated per frame, and it looks like there are rounding bugs here and there because of it. I seem to do more damage per clip at a higher frame rate.

Yeah, we've actually found that the engine seems to handle higher RoF just fine.  It's just the ammo counter which doesn't update properly.  Tested the GPR and CSR under marksman, and neither lost any shots.

Some more info here

Whereas Cyonan, testing it by watching the ammo counter, saw a loss in similar scenarios.

I think its just the CSR, CSMG, and Reegar which randomly lose ammo.  Not related to RoF, though I'm not sure what causes it.

Modifié par tyhw, 14 février 2013 - 10:47 .

[BridgeBurner]

tyhw wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Annomander wrote...

About ROF.... could it possibly be that the ROF bug, which causes the "loss" of shots above 800 RPM which is occurs in "some" weapons, but not all.... could this "bug / problem" exist because of the frame rates?

Probably yes, everything in unreal engine is calculated per frame, and it looks like there are rounding bugs here and there because of it. I seem to do more damage per clip at a higher frame rate.

Yeah, we've actually found that the engine seems to handle higher RoF just fine.  It's just the ammo counter which doesn't update properly.  Tested the GPR and CSR under marksman, and neither lost any shots.

Some more info here

Whereas Cyonan, testing it by watching the ammo counter, saw a loss in similar scenarios.

I think its just the CSR, CSMG, and Reegar which randomly lose ammo.  Not related to RoF, though I'm not sure what causes it.

High RoF DLC weapons as opposed to non DLC weapons. I think that's important. Just like the DLC weapons are bugged with the heavy mods, it wouldn't surprise me if high RoF DLC weapons are bugged in some other way too.

Modifié par Annomander, 14 février 2013 - 10:51 .

[Tybo]

Annomander wrote...

tyhw wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Annomander wrote...

About ROF.... could it possibly be that the ROF bug, which causes the "loss" of shots above 800 RPM which is occurs in "some" weapons, but not all.... could this "bug / problem" exist because of the frame rates?

Probably yes, everything in unreal engine is calculated per frame, and it looks like there are rounding bugs here and there because of it. I seem to do more damage per clip at a higher frame rate.

Yeah, we've actually found that the engine seems to handle higher RoF just fine.  It's just the ammo counter which doesn't update properly.  Tested the GPR and CSR under marksman, and neither lost any shots.

Some more info here

Whereas Cyonan, testing it by watching the ammo counter, saw a loss in similar scenarios.

I think its just the CSR, CSMG, and Reegar which randomly lose ammo.  Not related to RoF, though I'm not sure what causes it.

High RoF DLC weapons as opposed to non DLC weapons. I think that's important. Just like the DLC weapons are bugged with the heavy mods, it wouldn't surprise me if high RoF DLC weapons are bugged in some other way too.

Interesting point.  It is strange, however, that increasing the RoF on the CSR actually caused it to lose less shots, in this instance.  If it was actually RoF causing it, wouldn't you expect the opposite?