412 réponses à ce sujet

[BridgeBurner]

tyhw wrote...

Interesting point.  It is strange, however, that increasing the RoF on the CSR actually caused it to lose less shots, in this instance.  If it was actually RoF causing it, wouldn't you expect the opposite?

Well, I have no answer for that, its just the CSR, CSMG and reegar are all DLC weapons, all have a high RoF and all suffer this ammo / shot loss problem. As Caratinoid suggested, it might be due to rounding problems caused by frame rate, and that RoF bonuses are enough to increase the RoF so that the rounding error is less significant at a specific frame rate, so the "per frame" numbers are rounded down less severely.

It's just a theory anyways.

[dima_che]

I just wanted to say thank you guys. You see, it really amazes me as you put more work into debugging a game while not being respocible for QA for Bioware, than *offtopic* my paid Cisco TAC into priority 1 cases.

P.S. Please keep civil. It really hurts me to see intelligent people throwing abuses at each other. I understand why both sides are affected - noone would like his e-peen to be shortened by PC\\console sticker. If this helps you feel better, I'm still struggling to do my first proper silver solo without kroguard, so yep, all of you are better than me.

[Feneckus]

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Does that mean you can do that on xbox ? Or is it because the game is running at half the FPS it's supposed to ?

Because if you can do that on xbox, well, that kind of put things in perspective.

[BridgeBurner]

Feneckus wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Does that mean you can do that on xbox ? Or is it because the game is running at half the FPS it's supposed to ?

Because if you can do that on xbox, well, that kind of put things in perspective.

More complicated than it looks Feneckus, as he's deliberately running parallel to the enemies whenever they have LoS to him.

You won't always be able to run parallel to the enemy, so you're not always going to be able to do that.

[Geek]

Feneckus wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Does that mean you can do that on xbox ? Or is it because the game is running at half the FPS it's supposed to ?

Because if you can do that on xbox, well, that kind of put things in perspective.

Running and turning is problematic on xbox.

[upinya slayin]

Geek Fest wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Does that mean you can do that on xbox ? Or is it because the game is running at half the FPS it's supposed to ?

Because if you can do that on xbox, well, that kind of put things in perspective.

Running and turning is problematic on xbox.

yup, even if you set it up so that you can run and swiivel the camera (for instance the onza controller allows mapping of the A button to an extra bumber button) the camera still doens't move you can "fight it" to get a little movement but nowhere near what you can do on PC while running. I think that the console version didn't support running and turning the camera aince the A button makes it impossible to do both w/o having a different controller

Also yes lets keep it civil. its not a console war thing its about how the FPS effects the game. there is however a baseline comparison needed (aka the constant) in any comparison and teh constant would have to be a console verison unless BW wants to make a staement about what framrate the PC verison is supposed to run at, in that case then yes that can become the constant

also the comment made by someone (i don't remember who) about how eveyrthing scales to frames would explain why i said i seen videos of PC players where there weapons were doing way more damage then mine. thats would make sense if they were running at 120FPS. the enemies might become more aggressive but in teh same turn players become more powerfull. Which emans taht alot of the videos i thought were suing minor colsed file edits were msot liekly not, they were just playing at a higher framerate. This thread has acutally been really informative and all the people that posted data have done a great job with it.

All we need is a BW stance on things

[Feneckus]

Annomander wrote...

More complicated than it looks Feneckus, as he's deliberately running parallel to the enemies whenever they have LoS to him.

You won't always be able to run parallel to the enemy, so you're not always going to be able to do that.

Maybe, but at 60 FPS the only way you can do that is with a Drell and an Adrenaline Module.

Geek Fest wrote...

Running and turning is problematic on xbox.

Good point, I hadn't though about that.

[Shampoohorn]

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...
Here a short video showing how to take advantage of 30 FPS mode on gold with no shield boost gear and no cyclonic or adrenaline mods:

Video

Does that mean you can do that on xbox ? Or is it because the game is running at half the FPS it's supposed to ?

Because if you can do that on xbox, well, that kind of put things in perspective.

More complicated than it looks Feneckus, as he's deliberately running parallel to the enemies whenever they have LoS to him.

You won't always be able to run parallel to the enemy, so you're not always going to be able to do that.

Perpendicular, please.  I am disappoint.

[llandwynwyn]

It's not only by running the enemy are that pathetically easy. I've not made any tests but, by pugging & playing in older computers, it seems enemies don't hit as often if you're always in movement. It's like they're confused or something.

[upinya slayin]

llandwynwyn wrote...

It's not only by running the enemy are that pathetically easy. I've not made any tests but, by pugging & playing in older computers, it seems enemies don't hit as often if you're always in movement. It's like they're confused or something.

I think it has to do with the ability to transfer and process data. its shooting at where you were not where you are. the crap part is that when its lag induced and not procesor induced they still hit you even though you don't know you being hit cause the damage is calculated on host since the vanguard glitch, so your getting hit by enemies who are shooting where yu were a second ago

[Feneckus]

upinya slayin wrote...

lets keep it civil. its not a console war thing

alot of the videos i thought were suing minor colsed file edits were msot liekly not, they were just playing at a higher framerate.

[Violent_Lucidity]

This must be why it seems like I'm getting damaged during my Slayer's teleports.

Can't we just have like a happy medium between 30 and 60fps? Like 45-ish? And maybe set a new standard? Also, this should be stickied.

[RaptorSolutions]

llandwynwyn wrote...

It's not only by running the enemy are that pathetically easy. I've not made any tests but, by pugging & playing in older computers, it seems enemies don't hit as often if you're always in movement. It's like they're confused or something.

Hah! I knew being constantly on the move has its benefits.

[lightswitch]

How did I miss this thread before? Good stuff. I wonder if the game is balanced around an AI reacting at 60 FPS or at 30. Explains why sometimes the game feels stupid easy with a fast character, and other times it makes no difference how many adrenaline mods I use.

[Dorryn]

Caratinoid wrote...

Dorryn wrote...

So to get this straight : the framerate that matters is that of the host right? The other players in the player can use whatever framerate they want?

Yes, clients can run at any frame rate they want without affecting the game. Frame rate of the clients however also determines how much data per second will be send to the host so having a high frame rate can cause network issues in some cases such as rubber banding especially if you have a high ping or the host is too slow and can not process the incoming data in time, setting a lower frame rate seems to help in those cases.

Thanks for the answer. Me and my buddies have noted a clear difference when the host caps his framerate to 30fps. I would do it but personally I simply can't play at 30fps, it's too blurry and not-smooth. And I've tried several ways to cap my fps, from adding lines in playersettings.ini to using the nvidia control panel, even tried DXtory.

I've found that 40-45 fps is tolerable though, if it sends less packets to the host that can always help

[DoubleHell]

lightswitch wrote...

How did I miss this thread before? Good stuff. I wonder if the game is balanced around an AI reacting at 60 FPS or at 30. Explains why sometimes the game feels stupid easy with a fast character, and other times it makes no difference how many adrenaline mods I use.

My guess would be 30 FPS - watched youtube vids of gameplay on xbos and I could never get away with the moves pulled off xbox players when my PC was playing at a constant 60 FPS.

[Stinja]

DoubleHell wrote...

watched youtube vids of gameplay on xbos and I could never get away with the moves pulled off xbox players when my PC was playing at a constant 60 FPS.

When I first saw this thread I thought the same about PC players:  you'd watch PC solo vids, and I when I tried the stuff they did I'd just get shot down, making me think "how do they pull that stuff off?!".

Edit:  on PS3.  
Yes not to be a platform war, but I do wonder if the different hardware architecture effects "clever use of game mechanics" on different platforms with generally the same code.

Modifié par Stinja, 15 février 2013 - 07:50 .

[Dorryn]

So, I just did a few Silver games with a friend of mine and two PuGs. My friend was hosting and he had capped his FPS at 30, I capped mine at 45. We were both stunned how easy it seemed compared to before we read this post. Not only do we die a lot less (almost never actually), mobs also seem to die easier...

Sincerely, thank you op. You made this game enjoyable again for me *thumbup*.

[Kaall]

Dorryn wrote...

So, I just did a few Silver games with a friend of mine and two PuGs. My friend was hosting and he had capped his FPS at 30, I capped mine at 45. We were both stunned how easy it seemed compared to before we read this post. Not only do we die a lot less (almost never actually), mobs also seem to die easier...

Sincerely, thank you op. You made this game enjoyable again for me *thumbup*.

Just that.

And there is more, i don't see the difference between 30 and 60 fps fluidity wise....

[Commander_Rafael]

Kaall wrote...

Dorryn wrote...

So, I just did a few Silver games with a friend of mine and two PuGs. My friend was hosting and he had capped his FPS at 30, I capped mine at 45. We were both stunned how easy it seemed compared to before we read this post. Not only do we die a lot less (almost never actually), mobs also seem to die easier...

Sincerely, thank you op. You made this game enjoyable again for me *thumbup*.

Just that.

And there is more, i don't see the difference between 30 and 60 fps fluidity wise....

Lots of people can't hear the difference between 192kbps mp3 files for 320kbps. Even less of them can notice nuances between 320 and FLAC/WAV lossless audio formats.

But, yep, there is a solid difference for those used to it as well as there is a huge one between 30 and 60 fps. Never tried above for not having the needed monitor.

I know you said about your experience and didn't said there isn't just because you didn't notice, but just saying.

It's also ok if you can't, like not everyone has the physical and/or mind conditioning to push the body to run the same top speed, probably some people have by birth more ease to capture and process more frames with their eyes.

[MaxShine]

So more and more people are investigating this which is good. I think I have noticed differences in the AI's ability to flank the player at lower frame rates. Also the speed at which they advance to the players position. Anyone else noticed these differences? or am I seeing things ?

[Commander_Rafael]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

So more and more people are investigating this which is good. I think I have noticed differences in the AI's ability to flank the player at lower frame rates. Also the speed at which they advance to the players position. Anyone else noticed these differences? or am I seeing things ?

Well... if the level of dependence in the AI is so conected to the frames, it's possible the time it takes to advance closer positions would be affected as well. I hope at least these kinds of things have some other mechanics like objective's time aren't affected by the frame rate. It probably has some effect in the calculations when it will decide to change position, but the "cooldown" for these change of routines may be independent. Otherwise playing in something like 6 fps would render enemies taking some secs before "deciding" to performe a new action.

[Caratinoid]

Commander_Rafael wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

So more and more people are investigating this which is good. I think I have noticed differences in the AI's ability to flank the player at lower frame rates. Also the speed at which they advance to the players position. Anyone else noticed these differences? or am I seeing things ?

Well... if the level of dependence in the AI is so conected to the frames, it's possible the time it takes to advance closer positions would be affected as well. I hope at least these kinds of things have some other mechanics like objective's time aren't affected by the frame rate. It probably has some effect in the calculations when it will decide to change position, but the "cooldown" for these change of routines may be independent. Otherwise playing in something like 6 fps would render enemies taking some secs before "deciding" to performe a new action.

Yes, you can see it in the two videos I posted here. Just look where the enemies are moving when I run around them. At 10 FPS they will be running at the place I was a few seconds ago, same happens at 30 FPS, the effects are not so severe but still very noticeble, look here for example, there is an assault trooper behind a corner and when I run past him he starts to run at the place I was before instead of shooting or trying to melee me. At 120 FPS same trooper  jumps out of cover at the moment I get on top of those stairs and starts shooting right away without missing a bullet and running past an enemy like I do at 30 FPS is not possible without triggering an instant melee animation.

At a higher frame rate enemies will also try to avoid your shot when you aim at them much more often, dragoons start to jitter left and right while running towards you, nemesis turns her head much faster while in cover and pretty much any enemy can suddenly change their trajectory if it sees that you try to lead them with a shot.

Modifié par Caratinoid, 15 février 2013 - 09:56 .

[Deerber]

Caratinoid wrote...

At a higher frame rate enemies will also try to avoid your shot when you aim at them much more often, dragoons start to jitter left and right while running towards you, nemesis turns her head much faster while in cover and pretty much any enemy can suddenly change their trajectory if it sees that you try to lead them with a shot.

Ah, that part annoys me a freakin' lot... Especially on Dragoons and Nemesis <_<

[MichaelFinnegan]

Deerber wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

At a higher frame rate enemies will also try to avoid your shot when you aim at them much more often, dragoons start to jitter left and right while running towards you, nemesis turns her head much faster while in cover and pretty much any enemy can suddenly change their trajectory if it sees that you try to lead them with a shot.

Ah, that part annoys me a freakin' lot... Especially on Dragoons and Nemesis <_<

Very much true. Dragoons have the worst possible combination of all - high movement speed, ultra aggressive (always keep rushing towards the player, never take cover), have a high ROF weapon (Hornet, is it?) and damage, and can cancel their moves with other moves lightning fast, and as soon as you start aiming at them they start strafing. I'm noticing that this is especially bad on Platinum (I don't usually play Platinum).

And a bit of guesswork on my part: It is very much possible that the enemies can react instantly to the players' moves. But there would be an intentional delay built into their reaction time to make the game playable. Let's say this reaction time is around 1 second (probably this would increase with increasing game difficulty). This means that the enemies would have an updated position of the player 1 second into the past and no sooner. Now if variable framerate makes this reaction time variable, then the game would not be working according to the original parameters of design.