412 réponses à ce sujet

[FatalionPanic]

This Thread explains a lot, thanks! Much appreciated.
Now I wonder how ME4 on Frostbite 2 is going to handle this.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Ziegrif wrote...

Sorry but I'm not following any of this.
Could someone give me a version that even a melon could understand?

Don't die.

Get the thing.

[Dyaheon]

Caratinoid wrote...
Let me guess randoms spend most of the time on the ground, right? I wouldn't blame them for that though, on their screen it usually looks like instant death for no reason.

Yeah shield regen bug is almost guaranteed to happen at anything higher than 200 FPS but even at 120 your shields recharge slower (few seconds difference) and from time to time they won't recharge at all. It looks like kits with low shields get this bug faster. I don't have any solution for the shield bug, only the ridiculous enemy accuracy.

Hard to say how much more time they spend on the ground than on normal hosts, as I don't have much to compare to. I play as host pretty much exclusively. At least my connection is excellent so ping shouldn't be a problem unless they're from far away, which might sometimes be the case.

Shame there's no fix for shield regen, that's maybe the worst of these lot. Can't even really adjust to it, and it's not fun for the drells who join. Little hope for BW to fix this either I guess

Modifié par Dyaheon, 30 janvier 2013 - 09:11 .

[Dracian]

Ziegrif wrote...

Sorry but I'm not following any of this.
Could someone give me a version that even a melon could understand?

High Framerate = High difficulty
Low Framerate = Low difficulty

This is not normal and OP thinks he found a fix, but that involves editing game files... Thus he asked devs about the legality of the fix.

And now, we are waiting

[Xaijin]

Caratinoid wrote...

capn233 wrote...

This was actually discussed decently several months ago. Some of us made videos with artificially capped framerates showing the ability to run around in an open space and hardly get hit. That is when the discussion about AI recalculating lines of fire being locked to framerate came about.

edit:  Didn't watch your vid in entirety but the linked one was from September, which is when I made a video of running around in the middle of Giant hardly getting hit at 20fps or so.

Yeah I remember, I was part of that discussion.

Now I'm just looking for an answer if I'm being a masochist for running the game at a higher frame rate or was it intended to be played that way.

Yes, you're being a masochist. Instead of relying percentage-of-frame deltas to cheat when things get choppy and laggy like most companies with console first games do, BW relied on actual frame to frame resolves for a lot of things, which makes certain maps and classes unplayable together without help. Soloing condor or london with a squishy character OR a character with low top speed is pretty much impossible against enemies with high burst and/or continual burst damage, and soft cover will do **** for good against the run because of the way shots hitting is calculated, which is why you have characters falling over dead when they're already clear of enemy line of sight.

The intention was to give a level playing field and make games as consistent as possible across platforms, however BW themselves have acknowledged there are differences, esp on PC.

This is one of those differences, and it's waaaaaay too late to go back and recode, which is also pretty much a disaster waiting to happen anyway as far as introducing new bugs is concerned.

The frame rate issue also affects enemy powers as well as yours. Phantoms are much easier to kill on host when you have crappy framerates, esp if you have a high spike damage weapon like a javelin or claymore.

Modifié par Xaijin, 30 janvier 2013 - 09:18 .

[Caratinoid]

Dracian wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Sorry but I'm not following any of this.
Could someone give me a version that even a melon could understand?

High Framerate = High difficulty
Low Framerate = Low difficulty

This is not normal and OP thinks he found a fix, but that involves editing game files... Thus he asked devs about the legality of the fix.

And now, we are waiting

And if you are a smart melon:

Enemies are shooting at the location the player was a short moment ago not at the player directly, this is by design. So the faster you move the less bullets you'll catch. However this varies with the frame rate, the higher it is the faster you'll need to run to avoid the same ammount of bullets. At 120 FPS you will get shot right at the face no matter how fast you move.

[ISHYGDDT]

I recently decided to lower my resolution when playing (I have a crappy, low sensitivity mouse and doing so really helped me with recoil control) from 1600x900 to 1280x720. All of a sudden every game I hosted, PUGs were dropping like flies (more than usual, like 5 times a wave.) Then I forced vsync on in the nvidia control panel (so the frame rate is capped at 60 FPS) and things more or less went back to normal.  So this might be a fix if you don't want to go mucking around in coalesced.bin.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 30 janvier 2013 - 09:16 .

[Alijah Green]

SAD PC player are just scrubs

[Caratinoid]

Xaijin wrote...

Yes, you're being a masochist.

Damn it, I knew it!

Xaijin wrote...

The intention was to give a level playing field and make games as consistent as possible accross platforms, however BW themselves have acknowledged there are differences, esp on PC.

Only if you play at a higher frame rate than 30 FPS.

Xaijin wrote...

This is one of those differences, and it's waaaaaay too late to go back and recode, which is also pretty much a disaster waiting to happen anyway as far as introducing new bugs is concerned.

Can be fixed by scaling ai parameters in ini files, must be done by the player himself though.

Xaijin wrote...

The frame rate issue also affects enemy powers as well as yours. Phantoms are much easier to kill on host when you have crappy framerates, esp if you have a high spike damage weapon like a javelin or claymore.

Why is it easier? It looks like they change their trajectory faster is that it?

Modifié par Caratinoid, 30 janvier 2013 - 09:28 .

[Ziegrif]

Caratinoid wrote...

Dracian wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Sorry but I'm not following any of this.
Could someone give me a version that even a melon could understand?

High Framerate = High difficulty
Low Framerate = Low difficulty

This is not normal and OP thinks he found a fix, but that involves editing game files... Thus he asked devs about the legality of the fix.

And now, we are waiting

And if you are a smart melon:

Enemies are shooting at the location the player was a short moment ago not at the player directly, this is by design. So the faster you move the less bullets you'll catch. However this varies with the frame rate, the higher it is the faster you'll need to run to avoid the same ammount of bullets. At 120 FPS you will get shot right at the face no matter how fast you move.

Ok.
So circle strafing is still the greatest tactic ever conceived by anyone ever.
^^

Thanks fer the explanations. :3

[MichaelFinnegan]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

I recently decided to lower my resolution when playing (I have a crappy, low sensitivity mouse and doing so really helped me with recoil control) from 1600x900 to 1280x720. All of a sudden every game I hosted, PUGs were dropping like flies (more than usual, like 5 times a wave.) Then I forced vsync on in the nvidia control panel (so the frame rate is capped at 60 FPS) and things more or less went back to normal.  So this might be a fix if you don't want to go mucking around in coalesced.bin.

I play at 1360X768 resolution to get a better frame rate out of my system. I have experienced something similar to what you mentioned. I unintentionally became the host on Firebase Ghost Hazard Gold one time at about Wave 6, I think. Two of the guys remained and a third one newly joined. I immediately noticed that the enemies were reacting much faster (example: when in cover, Nemesis and Phantoms were twitching their heads much faster making hitting them a lot harder, and enemies were strafing much faster, too), despite that I was landing headshots with my Javelin, and my team mates were dropping all around me. Together with the constant wailing that Nemesis do when out in the open (due to the acid rain?) I was uncontrollably laughing and at the same time desperately trying to keep everyone alive.

I have been at the receiving end of this also, I think. One instance: I was off-host and the last one alive and on Wave 7/8 Gold (forget which wave), I tried to keep myself as much under cover as possible. Managed to take out a couple of Phantoms and then a Turret out of nowhere took me down, in about an instant before what was happenining even registered on my screen. I will tell you that this is very annoying (even unplayable at times) - and I know that BioWare could not have intentionally designed their game to behave this way.

I have not changed any settings in my system since I never intentionally host, but I do hope BioWare would fix this thing.

And to the OP: thanks for sharing. It is very useful to know.

[Caratinoid]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

when in cover, Nemesis and Phantoms were twitching their heads much faster making hitting them a lot harder

This^

[JesuSaves]

I figured this out very early on. When I hosted, enemies were extremely accurate, and I run at a high FPS. When my girlfriend hosted, on same internet connection, enemies responded slowly and were much easier to kill and survive against. She has my old computer, which the only thing bad about it is the video card.

Even today, if she hosts a platinum match, even absolutely awful players can get through it with low level equipment. If I host, those same people would all be out of Medi-Gel by wave 3. I still prefer to be the host, but usually means a long game, due to playing with randoms.

[FatalionPanic]

just had a Platinum match with a host approximately running on over 9000 FPS everyone was dropping like flies barely made it to wave 10 it was horrible, running out of consumables by wave 6

I was going to text him this thread but ORIGIN DOESN'T LET ME unless he accepts my friend request - bad origin, bad!
*bump*

[Xaijin]

Only if you play at a higher frame rate than 30 FPS.

There are still usability and effect differences.

Can be fixed by scaling ai parameters in ini files, must be done by the player himself though.

Still not a 1:1 fix, though close.

]
Why is it easier? It looks like they change their trajectory faster is that it?

Because they respond slower to all attacks, which means the hitscan DR cheese is less likely to kick in, even if you're the host. They also remain in stunlock when pressed with said weapon multiple times. They'll even make the flipping noise without actually doing it.

Modifié par Xaijin, 01 février 2013 - 05:18 .

[burr beer]

Thank you for doing some research on this.  I've wondered if the AI acted differently based on connection for a while now after playing through some hilarious games.

[Caratinoid]

It looks like shield regen bug is more serious than I thought. Drell for instance will not regenerate shields past 75 FPS.

Found out the hard way by taking a level 4 drell with black widow and 250 shields into a gold match hosted at 120 FPS. It was insane, the only way to get his shields back was to use an ops pack or not to get hit in the first place. Same happens with vorcha BTW.

The only work around at the moment is to put all points in fitness which will be just enough for drell to slowly regen shields even at 120 FPS. You need around 450 shields to be able to regenerate them at those frame rates. Using a cyclonic mod also helps.

[TheThirdRace]

Any news from Bioware on this one?

I'm very happy to see I wasn't crazy...

[DoubleHell]

I wonder what the baseline difficulty is suppose to be, based on the FPS with minimum pc requirements.

Is the baseline 60 FPS on a PC? If so, is there a linear increase/decrease in AI responsiveness at 120/30 FPS? And is it legal to set your framerate above/below the intended range?

[ISHYGDDT]

DoubleHell wrote...

I wonder what the baseline difficulty is suppose to be, based on the FPS with minimum pc requirements.

Is the baseline 60 FPS on a PC? If so, is there a linear increase/decrease in AI responsiveness at 120/30 FPS? And is it legal to set your framerate above/below the intended range?

Probably 30 FPS since thats what consoles are at.  No one on PC plays at that intentionally though.

[Ramsutin]

So I should cap my FPS to 20ish and solo plat?

[Caratinoid]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

DoubleHell wrote...

I wonder what the baseline difficulty is suppose to be, based on the FPS with minimum pc requirements.

Is the baseline 60 FPS on a PC? If so, is there a linear increase/decrease in AI responsiveness at 120/30 FPS? And is it legal to set your framerate above/below the intended range?

Probably 30 FPS since thats what consoles are at.  No one on PC plays at that intentionally though.

I think it's 30 FPS too. And a lot of people on these forums play at 30 or lower anyway, I think it would be unfair to say that you can only play the intended difficulty at 60 FPS.

You can set any frame rate you want in your configuration panel for your video card.

If it wasn't legal we wouldn't be allowed to play the game on laptops which can beraly run the game at 30 FPS.

[DoubleHell]

Caratinoid wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

DoubleHell wrote...

I wonder what the baseline difficulty is suppose to be, based on the FPS with minimum pc requirements.

Is the baseline 60 FPS on a PC? If so, is there a linear increase/decrease in AI responsiveness at 120/30 FPS? And is it legal to set your framerate above/below the intended range?

Probably 30 FPS since thats what consoles are at.  No one on PC plays at that intentionally though.

I think it's 30 FPS too. And a lot of people on these forums play at 30 or lower anyway, I think it would be unfair to say that you can only play the intended difficulty at 60 FPS.

You can set any frame rate you want in your configuration panel for your video card.

If it wasn't legal we wouldn't be allowed to play the game on laptops which can beraly run the game at 30 FPS.

I tried the game at 30 FPS...it's nasty to watch/play - but definitely easier. You can regularly run past mobs/bosses without getting hit or stunlocked, and there's more time for you to peek out of corners/ramps without getting shot at. At full FPS, the enemies seem to shoot you *before* you even pop your head out...

One would think that the minimum hardware requirements of a core 2 system with a nvidia 7900 class GPU would be able to crank out 60 FPS at the lowest detail settings...

The devs have been strangely quiet on this topic...

edit: typo

Modifié par DoubleHell, 06 février 2013 - 10:11 .

[Caratinoid]

Ramsutin wrote...

So I should cap my FPS to 20ish and solo plat?

Yes, but don't expect it to be too easy, you still need skills.  20-30 FPS is the best frame rate for that I think, anything lower would be harder to aim and move.

Strategy would be to find some soft cover, shoot for a bit, then run to the other side of the map to find some new cover. Try to run perpendicular to the enemy's line of sight. You will still get hit the same if you stay still so you main advantage here is that while you run around you will dodge most of the bullets which is harder at  a higher frame rate. Doing a platinum solo at 60 FPS or higher is very doable but error prone, this is why most people don't like doing platinum solos at those frame rates.

If you are doing a krogard solo then it doesn't really matter, that guy just doesn't give a single f*** about it.

[Caratinoid]

DoubleHell wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

DoubleHell wrote...

I wonder what the baseline difficulty is suppose to be, based on the FPS with minimum pc requirements.

Is the baseline 60 FPS on a PC? If so, is there a linear increase/decrease in AI responsiveness at 120/30 FPS? And is it legal to set your framerate above/below the intended range?

Probably 30 FPS since thats what consoles are at.  No one on PC plays at that intentionally though.

I think it's 30 FPS too. And a lot of people on these forums play at 30 or lower anyway, I think it would be unfair to say that you can only play the intended difficulty at 60 FPS.

You can set any frame rate you want in your configuration panel for your video card.

If it wasn't legal we wouldn't be allowed to play the game on laptops which can beraly run the game at 30 FPS.

I tried the game at 30 FPS...it's nasty to watch/play - but definitely easier. You can regularly run past mobs/bosses without getting hit or stunlocked, and there's more time for you to peek out of corners/ramps without getting shot at. At full FPS, the enemies seem to shoot you *before* you even pop your head out...

One would think that the minimum hardware requirements of a core 2 system with a nvidia 7900 class GPU would be able to crank out 60 FPS at the lowest detail settings...

The devs have been strangely quiet on this topic...

Yes exactly that, note that you will not have time to react (like hide behind cover) if you have lag when playing off host and the host is playing at 60 or higher, you will just die before you can even see it, that's another reason why I think that it has to be played at 30 FPS like on x-box, the lag is less of an issues at those frame rates.