412 réponses à ce sujet

[jimcamx]

 Is this all true for single player as well?

[Johny1616]

I never, never, had even head about this. But it does explain quite a bit.
Thanks OP, I love coming across these threads, keep up the great work!
(TL;DR? Psshh, bring it text!)

[Dorryn]

Johny1616 wrote...

I never, never, had even head about this. But it does explain quite a bit.
Thanks OP, I love coming across these threads, keep up the great work!
(TL;DR? Psshh, bring it text!)

TL;DR == Too Long ; Didn't Read

Originally used in forums by people who replied to posts simply to say that they didn't read it because it was too long (or too well written for them) ; now also used before summarizing a long post.

[Johny1616]

Dorryn wrote...

Johny1616 wrote...

I never, never, had even head about this. But it does explain quite a bit.
Thanks OP, I love coming across these threads, keep up the great work!
(TL;DR? Psshh, bring it text!)

TL;DR == Too Long ; Didn't Read

Originally used in forums by people who replied to posts simply to say that they didn't read it because it was too long (or too well written for them) ; now also used before summarizing a long post.

Sorry for the confusion, I do understand the gist of TL;DR (though it's nice to read the 'complete' definiton). I was refering to how the warning of an upcoming wall of text didn't phase me from reading the whole thing, hence: "Psshh, bring it text!".
Thanks nonetheless 

[Caratinoid]

Heri wrote...
Kinda disturbing that the devs have ignored this - hopefully we'll get a response from them sometime this century on whether or not editing game files to limit framerates is okay or not.

The devs have been informed about it but it will take a while before they can tell as more since the problem is far from simple.

Limiting frame rate is allowed, no editing is nessesry for that, you can just force vsync to be half of the real vsync in control panel for example or cap your frame rate with MSI afterburner or some other software if you want. The problem is that no one wants to play at console frame rates. It is possible however to mod your game files to fix the abnormal enemy accuracy without having to change your frame rate, the quastion now if that's allowed.

[Caratinoid]

DoubleHell wrote ...

There must be something else to it - with my network monitor open, at 30 FPS i'm sending about half as much data as I recieve, and no rubber banding.

When playing at 60+ FPS it's usually 1:1 or often I'm sending the host more data than I'm receiving, and I usually start to rubber band after sprinting.

With hosts from NZ or Oz, latency is under 50ms, and I never rubber band. No problems to the US west, which gives about 150ms to 200ms of latency.

I usually rubber band on anything east of the Central US - 400ms to the US east coast, 450ms to 600ms to Europe and Asia.

Now that I've got it set to 30 FPS, I haven't rubber banded at all.

By rubber banding you mean when your character and not the enemies starts to teleport all over the place, right?

The fact that you send more data as a client when running at a higher frame rate is normal, should cause problems though. I guess it's possible that a slow host will not be able to proces all the packets in time which will result in his net buffer getting full and dropping some of the packets. Unless the game uses a circular buffer only the latest packets will get dropped while the host still tries to sort through old ones, that can explain the teleports of the client. I've also seen some people saying that the game can get glitchier for them if a certain player joins, so maybe slow host and fast client is also the reason here.

It should be possible to limit the ammount of data sent without altering your frame rate. I'll look in to that.

[MichaelFinnegan]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Someone please break this down for me since I'm not a computer geek (term meant endearingly).

This is not my particular field of expertise either and I'm sure someone can explain it you much better, but I'll just try.

What determans frame rate?

The first question is what actually determines a "frame." A frame is the "sum total" of all data that is sent to your monitor/display from your computer at any instant in time. Let's assume you have a monitor of max display resolution 1080p. This means usually that there are 1920x1080 or 2073600 pixels on your screen. Each pixel to your computer is a distinct piece of information to be processed by it. And so many pixels (approx. 2 million for 1080p) would make up all the information that your monitor can hold at any instant in time.

Frame rate represents the frequency at which consecutive fames are displayed on your screen. The computer is a discrete machine by nature, meaning that, unlike in reality, there is no continuous display that happens to the screen. Images are always constructed in frames. The human eye typically cannot distinguish something that is above 15 frames per second, so frame rates of 30 FPS or 60 FPS work out very well to give an illusion of continuous display (and hence realism) to the eye.

Let us assume that your computer is capable of 60 FPS (this is the frequency of frames or Frames Per Second). This means each frame is displayed every 1/60th if a second or every 17 milliseconds (17 ms). Now with 30 FPS, this becomes one frame every 33 ms, and so on for different FPS.

The max FPS is limited to the hardware in your computer. Usually this means the power of your CPU (processor) and GPU (graphics unit) taken together. Together they determine what the maximum throughput of your machine is. The CPU always processes the data and then feeds it to the GPU. The GPU does a whole lot of things, but as an end result it constructs individual frames and sends it to your monitor. Now the essential thing is that if either your CPU or your GPU is "weak" then the "amount" of data that can be processed and displayed on your screen over time will reduce. Which essentially means that the number of frames that is output every second (or FPS) reduces. This is especially true of older machines with weaker CPUs or GPUs or both

I run a very powerful gaming laptop and I have a strong "high speed" Internet connection. Am I being punished for this when I host? How do I manipulate my frame rate?

Not as much as the other guys in the lobby who are connecting to you are punished. Apparently FPS has a tendency to affect enemy AI in this game, which basically means that the higher your FPS the better the reaction times of the enemies become. This will be harder for you as host, sure, but just imagine someone who is connecting to your machine in a match. That guy will always be lagging in time relative to you (5ms or 100ms or even several seconds). Now couple that with the increased accuracy (or more correctly hightened reaction time) of the enemies, the game becomes virtually unplayable for him/her off-host.

I'm not exactly sure how you can directly cap your frame rate. Perhaps this can be done in-game or via your GPU settings. But if you increase your visual detail (meaning the aspects that encompass each of the pixels) or increase your resolution (meaning more pixels) then the frame rate will always go down. This is because the computer would have to do more work to construct and display each pixel and hence each frame.

[nicethugbert]

Caratinoid wrote...
It is possible however to mod your game files to fix the abnormal enemy accuracy without having to change your frame rate, the quastion now if that's allowed.

How do I do this?  I should not have to wait a year for The Devs to make file changes to fix their bugs while they make banners and nerf fun weapons/powers.

[Commander_Rafael]

Caratinoid is waiting for devs response before posting anything. As it can be abused to make the game dumb easy, he's not going to throw it on the forum creating a new cheating a lot less alarmative than the missile glitch.

We'll have to be patiente. Such a shame there's the possibility that devs won't even get this on the fixing schedule as it probably ain't resource viable after all this time.

I've got a little hyped when thought about fixing the issue (damn, I forced 45 fps and it did a really noticeble difference on the gameplay, but you just can't lower from your standards after so long) but I'm not counting on it anymore. The patching and balancing team is not that really slow, but probably not even 30% of BSN know about this issue, it'd be a waste of resources to spend so much trying to fix something almost nobody would notice.

[Sp3c7eR]

Funny that all my solos were done at 120 FPS and it turns out I was fighting super AI...

[Deerber]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Funny that all my solos were done at 120 FPS and it turns out I was fighting super AI...

Hey, look who's back on these boards!

Nice to see you around Sp3c7eR, do you plan to play this game again when we get the new DLC maybe? 

[iOnlySignIn]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Funny that all my solos were done at 120 FPS and it turns out I was fighting super AI...

Your visual and motor cortex operate at Over 9,000 FPS so it matters very little to you. I think.

[Caratinoid]

I will not be posting the details here until I get some response from the devs, exploit potentials are to great, I already suspect some people who post on these forums for doing it (can be deduced from the video if you know where to look, gets kinda obvious sometimes when you see someone stand in front of 4 phantoms and don't get hit even once). Maybe I should have just made my own epeen thread or something and STFU cause now I will probably get hackusetions if I try to post anything that looks cool.

The devs will most probably not be able to fix this without a patch, live update will not help either since everyone is running at a different frame rate, you can't just make modifications that will work for everyone.

[Caratinoid]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Funny that all my solos were done at 120 FPS and it turns out I was fighting super AI...

All it takes is a different playstyle, though on an open map like condor it can get really annoying.

Depending on the kit you play you might not notice it at all, squshy characters are affected the most.

Oh yeah, try a solo with drell adept, no points in shields or cyclonic mod allowed! Your shields will not recharge at all if you do that.

[llandwynwyn]

Caratinoid wrote...
I already suspect some people who post on these forums for doing it (can be deduced from the video if you know where to look, gets kinda obvious sometimes when you see someone stand in front of 4 phantoms and don't get hit even once).

Let's not forget not everyone has a super computer. From experience, most pugs tend to play at 30 fps. Unless the lag is really bad, the games are always easier than when my friends or I host.

[Caratinoid]

Yes I know, a lot of players are playing at 30 FPS and that's ok, it's probably the intended difficulty anyway, but you can make the game even easier by modding the files while playing at your usual frame rate, the game will still look kinda the same but the chanses of getting hit will be very low.

[MaxShine]

Caratinoid wrote...
 (can be deduced from the video if you know where to look, gets kinda obvious sometimes when you see someone stand in front of 4 phantoms and don't get hit even once). Maybe I should have just made my own epeen thread or something and STFU cause now I will probably get hackusetions if I try to post anything that looks cool.

I have seen these guys surrounded by phantoms and not getting hit... Please do not tell anyone how to do this

[nicethugbert]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

Funny that all my solos were done at 120 FPS and it turns out I was fighting super AI...

Funny how most of this player base are bronze players and how prevalent "OMG PUGS R HORIBAD GET OUT OF BOX OF SHAME" threads are.

[DoubleHell]

Caratinoid wrote...

DoubleHell wrote ...

Now that I've got it set to 30 FPS, I haven't rubber banded at all.

By rubber banding you mean when your character and not the enemies starts to teleport all over the place, right?

Right. Staying in cover briefly usually sorts that out, and if I avoid sprinting, the teleporting is reduced.

You're likely correct that the hosting system is being overloaded somehow, and is unable to process all the data from the client.

Modifié par DoubleHell, 08 février 2013 - 06:47 .

[FatalionPanic]

I just tested this with a friend of mine: my Laptop can barely handle 24-30 FPS
His PC was at constant 60 FPS

when he hosts I get more and more bugs the longer the game lasts
i.e. he went off the scoreboard, my stim packs would not kick in every time, my falcon tends to miss pretty often, his character disappears and I only see his name floating around, dodging is almost impossible

When I host he's got no such trouble at all
not that this thread needed more confirmation but some sort of bump

[KyreneZA]

My machine is getting a little old and hardly tops 40fps even when running in vsync mode (monitor can handle 60fps). So I dropped Max Smoothed to 30fps and my friend did notice an improvement on the amount of stunlock during the games we played for the operation last night.

This thread certainly has some interesting information in it, thanks Caratinoid!

[llandwynwyn]

Kyrene wrote...
Max Smoothed to 30fps and my friend did notice an improvement on the amount of stunlock during the games we played for the operation last night.

That's why I don't like Geth Plat.I only plat with friends now and it's a nightmare. When I'm lagging is pure torture.

It's the reason Geth are still popular with pugs, at 30 FPS they're a joke.