31 réponses à ce sujet

[Cromwell1]

Hey, all:)

Does Dex give mages any measurable advantage?

I have read the description for dex, but, other than dodging missles, I can't see a use for increased dex for mages?

Am I missing something? I am playing a Spirit healer for my PC, along with Alistair, Morrigan, and Leliana.

Thks for any input.

[Jack-Nader]

No, it weakens them significantly

[Lord Phoebus]

It can be useful for AWs who want to melee since it increases their attack score. Mages also have alot of +defense gear and not +3 to +6 like warriors, +9 to +12. With some dexterity (no more than 30), those items, Arcane Shield and a Glyph of Warding you can make your mage more or less unhittable, which is always useful. There are some niche benefits to putting some points in Dex for a mage, but really 90% of your points should be going into magic to make your spells more effective.

[soteria]

It's not worth it. If you want defense for your mage, pick up some defensive spells, or buy some of the nicer items that are out there (Vestments of the Reaper come to mind).

[Creature 1]

No, don't put points into anything but mostly magic, some willpower, and enough cunning to get maximum coercion. Remember you get Fade points, though, so don't amp cunning too much.

[jsachun]

It's only useful if you want to use daggers & bows. Even as arcane warrior, magic does not substitude for Dex but only for strength. Mages are ranged attack so I suppose there's no real need for it, although I wonder why the "Mage's Eye (Dragonthorn longbow)" is called that.

Modifié par jsachun, 09 janvier 2010 - 05:39 .

[Kepha]

Mages don't need to amp cunning at all. There are enough fade bonuses to get max coercion with the base cunning stat.

[JAMiAM]

jsachun wrote...

It's only useful if you want to use daggers & bows. Even as arcane warrior, magic does not substitude for Dex but only for strength. Mages are ranged attack so I suppose there's no real need for it, although I wonder why the "Mage's Eye (Dragonthorn longbow)" is called that.

I always thought that the bow was named such, since it is so good you can shoot a mage through the eye with it...

[Lord Phoebus]

jsachun wrote...

It's only useful if you want to use daggers & bows. Even as arcane warrior, magic does not substitude for Dex but only for strength. Mages are ranged attack so I suppose there's no real need for it, although I wonder why the "Mage's Eye (Dragonthorn longbow)" is called that.

Magic doesn't really substitute for strength for an AW, they can add their magic bonus instead of their strength bonus to damage, and they get a +1 bonus to attack for every 5 points of magic bonus to a maximum of +10 and a flat +5 bonus to attack that upgrades to a +10 when you get aura of might. 

So a pure magic AW has an attack of bonus 50 (base)+5 (AW spec bonus)+10 (combat magic +aura of might  passive bonus) +10 (60 magic) =75 attack.   Even with buffs you're going to have a hard time hitting anything with a 75 attack (It might be higher with combat training, but I don't think mages get the bonuses to attack and defense that rogues and warriors do from that skill).  Which is I why I suggest getting your dex to 30 if you want to melee with an AW since that gives you another +10 to attack, 85 is still pretty low for an end game attack but manageable with buffs (heroic offense should push that to 100, and miasma will lower opponent defense scores by 10).

[jsachun]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

jsachun wrote...

It's only useful if you want to use daggers & bows. Even as arcane warrior, magic does not substitude for Dex but only for strength. Mages are ranged attack so I suppose there's no real need for it, although I wonder why the "Mage's Eye (Dragonthorn longbow)" is called that.

Magic doesn't really substitute for strength for an AW, they can add their magic bonus instead of their strength bonus to damage, and they get a +1 bonus to attack for every 5 points of magic bonus to a maximum of +10 and a flat +5 bonus to attack that upgrades to a +10 when you get aura of might. 

So a pure magic AW has an attack of bonus 50 (base)+5 (AW spec bonus)+10 (combat magic +aura of might  passive bonus) +10 (60 magic) =75 attack.   Even with buffs you're going to have a hard time hitting anything with a 75 attack (It might be higher with combat training, but I don't think mages get the bonuses to attack and defense that rogues and warriors do from that skill).  Which is I why I suggest getting your dex to 30 if you want to melee with an AW since that gives you another +10 to attack, 85 is still pretty low for an end game attack but manageable with buffs (heroic offense should push that to 100, and miasma will lower opponent defense scores by 10).

Thats why I think Melee Arcane Warrior sucks. With other classes all you have to do is use talent attacks & it's a hit all the time, where as arcane warrior has no melee talents. I only use it for shield & ability to add defense & armor rating by being able equip better armor. I think in that aspect DA:O lacks a legendary armor set that helps with magic or spell attributes to add to your spell damage as a mage.

Modifié par jsachun, 09 janvier 2010 - 07:46 .

[Cybercat999]

I see no point in spreading a mage too thin. My main value is in my spells and raising anything but magic just weakens them. I understand roleplaying reasons for different spec combos but from the point of effectiveness getting points in anything but magic is just waste imho.

[jsachun]

Cybercat999 wrote...

I see no point in spreading a mage too thin. My main value is in my spells and raising anything but magic just weakens them. I understand roleplaying reasons for different spec combos but from the point of effectiveness getting points in anything but magic is just waste imho.

Well, if you want to unlock "I'm kind of a big deal achievement" you should add some points into constitution. Without 30+ consitituition, you'll be dead if an ogre grabs you. Unless you can program your companions to stun the ogre, before you die.

[CID-78]

jsachun wrote...

Cybercat999 wrote...

I see no point in spreading a mage too thin. My main value is in my spells and raising anything but magic just weakens them. I understand roleplaying reasons for different spec combos but from the point of effectiveness getting points in anything but magic is just waste imho.

Well, if you want to unlock "I'm kind of a big deal achievement" you should add some points into constitution. Without 30+ consitituition, you'll be dead if an ogre grabs you. Unless you can program your companions to stun the ogre, before you die.

it's simply easier to not let the ogre grab you then wasting points in CON. unless you go solo the ogres should be occipied with your companions and your high Magic will make it tough for the ogre to resist anything you throw at it. and if you go solo you certainly already played through the game and got that achievement.

[jsachun]

CID-78 wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Cybercat999 wrote...

I see no point in spreading a mage too thin. My main value is in my spells and raising anything but magic just weakens them. I understand roleplaying reasons for different spec combos but from the point of effectiveness getting points in anything but magic is just waste imho.

Well, if you want to unlock "I'm kind of a big deal achievement" you should add some points into constitution. Without 30+ consitituition, you'll be dead if an ogre grabs you. Unless you can program your companions to stun the ogre, before you die.

it's simply easier to not let the ogre grab you then wasting points in CON. unless you go solo the ogres should be occipied with your companions and your high Magic will make it tough for the ogre to resist anything you throw at it. and if you go solo you certainly already played through the game and got that achievement.

Easier said than done

[Cybercat999]

jsachun wrote...

Cybercat999 wrote...

I see no point in spreading a mage too thin. My main value is in my spells and raising anything but magic just weakens them. I understand roleplaying reasons for different spec combos but from the point of effectiveness getting points in anything but magic is just waste imho.

Well, if you want to unlock "I'm kind of a big deal achievement" you should add some points into constitution. Without 30+ consitituition, you'll be dead if an ogre grabs you. Unless you can program your companions to stun the ogre, before you die.

I got the achievement so I can now play in peace

I do not play solo since I have more fun setting tactics for my party than soloing. I play no-pause-nightmare and so far (lvl 19) I got 2 injuries and not one of them was from ogre.

I added all my points in magic and with my spellpower an ogre is probably dead before it reaches me. I have glyphs, Blood Wound, Crushing Prison and CoC for the eventuality if it does reach me - I would say quite enough, no?
Besides my Alistair is too good a tank to let any ogre just bash on me, my Morrigan heals me perfectly and my Leliana goes berserk if anyone touches her love...... I feel very protected

Seriously, raising con just takes away from what matters for mage - magic.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 09 janvier 2010 - 10:58 .

[jsachun]

How about a mage that does Crushing Prison, Death Hex, & Curse of Mortality on you? Can't see you survive that without high cons? Sometimes they attack whoever does the highest damage output as oppose to the "Tank" attributes.

& also you should put some points into Will as a mage.

Modifié par jsachun, 09 janvier 2010 - 11:55 .

[13obitus13]

melee mage needs a bit higher con, if ranged u usually got time for whatever saves if agros, spell shield and dispell is a big win when hostile mages targeting u. alltoe in mage tower i got holy smithed ones buy 5 templars at the same time whit the desire demon frosting me or whatever , was a fast death for my mage xD

[jsachun]

It's also good for blood magic, for those of you who have tasted the forbidden.

[Cybercat999]

jsachun wrote...

How about a mage that does Crushing Prison, Death Hex, & Curse of Mortality on you? Can't see you survive that without high cons? Sometimes they attack whoever does the highest damage output as oppose to the "Tank" attributes.

& also you should put some points into Will as a mage.

I have enough additional con/will from my equip. I run with Morrigan on mages duty - Mana Clash takes them faster than they can cast 2 spells in row. Plus, she is my healer and I am high on her priority list.
Besides, Leliana shares highest dps with me, I take care to set my entire party as good as I can and my mage is more CC oriented. I have more fun personally with controlling the battle as I please than doing big numbers.

Blood Magic is my first and favorite spec, if you know how to use it, turn on/off depending on your hp/mp it doesnt take lot of health to make it work succesfully.

[jsachun]

Yeah well, I rather play all my games without ever falling in battle so I'll raise my cons to see fit.

Modifié par jsachun, 09 janvier 2010 - 12:55 .

[Cybercat999]

What difficulty you play? I play nightmare without pause, so not including a Brecilian Shade fight where I was lazy to play safe I would say I am not doing *that* bad with one death up to now. That one was in Tower of Ishal where I stupidly ran into more than I could chew at lvl 4.

I just went through fight with 8 wolves alone, my party was occupied on the other side and Morrigan went into heroic mode and died - I killed all 8 of them alone. I would say its pretty formidable for CC mage without a point in anything but magic *shrug*

Modifié par Cybercat999, 09 janvier 2010 - 01:31 .

[jsachun]

Check Below link. and you'll see how the damage works with mages. You'll see that more often than not 100+ magic will not save you from having to use two spells as oppose to one to dispose a high level enemy.



http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Spellpower

[Cybercat999]

I dont care to oneshot stuff, but I do care if whatever I cast at them doesnt get resisted, and that can be a big deal when you play on NM.

Basically the entire Paralysis line gets very doubtful on NM, what is a pity really imo. I would gladly get it if it was bit more reliable.

[Lord Phoebus]

jsachun wrote...

Check Below link. and you'll see how the damage works with mages. You'll see that more often than not 100+ magic will not save you from having to use two spells as oppose to one to dispose a high level enemy.

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Spellpower

That depends on the spell, whether it's part of a combo, whether the target is being hexed etc.  IIRC with vulnerability hex and affliction hex on a target one point of spellpower is worth about 6 points of damage with the entropic death combo (granted this is atypical).  However the strength of spellpower is making CC harder to resist, since the mental resistance and physical resistance checks seem to be made against a target number based either on spellpower or the magic attribute. I really can't recommend putting any points in Con or Will for a mage, maybe if you were soloing, but even then I think magic would help you more.  I've found the mana they get per level up + equipment/fade bonuses give you enough mana to cast through most encounters.  The increased regen when you're running low added in 1.02 helps too.

[jsachun]

This is what wiki says about resistence,



ResistanceChance = [Target Resistance Score] - [Caster Attacking Attribute] + ([Target Rank] * [Target Rank Modifier]) + ([Target Level] * 5 - ((Difference Between [Target Level] and [Caster Level]) * 5.0)



If ResistanceChance >= [Target Maximum Resistance Chance]

ResistanceChance = [Target Maximum Resistance Chance]



CheckSuccess = (0.0 <= [Random Decimal Value] < 100.0) <= ResistanceChance



As you can see magic matters but it is not everything.