66 réponses à ce sujet

[CptPatch]

mousestalker wrote...
Bodahn also sells the Dwarven Merchant Belt, which has a markedly limited effect on your cash.

This, it turns out, was never "turned On".  That is, it has no effect (other than to lighten your purse).  Per wiki.

[CptPatch]

[quote]KariTR wrote...

[quote]T1l wrote...
The bastard was kicked out of Orzammar for stealing from Thaigs and dead people; his wares are ill-gotten. Despite him being nice and fathering Sandal, much to his wife’s lament, he's a shady character. To be honest, I'm not bothered by him charging exorbitant prices at all, nor do I find it out of character.
[/quote]

I agree, rather than be annoyed I found it humourous and delightful to discover the guy riding on my party's coat-tails for safety was scamming my PC. It's little things like this that gives the game world personality and makes it "real."[/quote]

Well, gee, if you're trying to suggest doing something realistic, how about being allowed to boot him out of camp, once you find out how much he's been gouging you?  Of course that would have to be after you've purchased those several items that ONLY he sells.

Oooo.  How does everyone feel about being _forced_ to buy the Blood Dragon armor pieces from the one merchant that WILL charge you the most for them?  If you want them, you WILL have to pay his price.[/quote]

[quote]KariTR wrote...
EDIT: In his defence, he does give information for free [/quote]
As does most bartenders.

Modifié par CptPatch, 11 janvier 2010 - 09:04 .

[Maurdyn]

Just think of it as he's selling higher to other people. That is, if he sells a flask to you for 1s 50c, he might be selling it to others for 2s or higher. =P

[Arrtis]

WIth him you get free enchantments,free info,he rewards you with gold when you save him,and He has a lot of very nice items unlike most merchants who only have 1 or no really nice items.He could have charged you 50s for every placement and removal of runes.

[CptPatch]

Arrtis wrote...

WIth him you get free enchantments,free info,he rewards you with gold when you save him,and He has a lot of very nice items unlike most merchants who only have 1 or no really nice items.He could have charged you 50s for every placement and removal of runes.

The "free info" is just background "color".  It's just stiff going on "backstage", and knowing any of it (or NOT knowing any of it) has _zero_ impact on the game.  It's like reading the headlines of the newspapers in the background to keep abreast of the news.  [Hmm.  This is an extremely rare example of Bodahn charging a price that is EXACTLY equal to the worth of that item!  ]

I grant you the part about the Enchantments.  I was actually VERY surprised that Bodahn did _not_ charge for those.  Especially after  the "How To Enchant an Item" discussion.  Lyrium ain't cheap.

[CptPatch]

Maurdyn wrote...

Just think of it as he's selling higher to other people. That is, if he sells a flask to you for 1s 50c, he might be selling it to others for 2s or higher. =P

Makes me think of a scene in the movie "The Life of Brian", where the a prisoner starts ragging Brian after the jailer spits on Brian.  "Oh, he must love you!  What I wouldn't give if he would ONLY spit on me!"  Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, knowing he's screwing others sooooo much worse!

[Arkwright99]

CptPatch wrote...

demos99 wrote...
As well as the Trade Manifests and Private Documents,

These, in fact, have NO EFFECT.  (per wiki)

And Coercion doesn't have any effect either, which was the point of my comment. People have suggested that the manifests and documents should make a difference to pricing and people have also suggested the Cocercion could be used in the same way. At the moment none of these things have any effect, but potentially they could do if BW decided to implement them. That's all.

[SuperMedbh]

Bodhan is the classic charming rascal. It would be out of character for him to REALLY be cheap. But he did take Sandal in (and doesn't charge for enchanting), so he's not a complete twit.



Game wise, I can see why the developers don't have him as the cheapest-- special items and prices are the reward for exploring the world and shopping around.

[jmp0505]

Still, now when I help him out when you first meet him, I *always* ask for money. I tried it once, thinking that maybe if you didn't hit him up then, his prices would be less. Nope.

[JJM152]

CptPatch wrote...

soteria wrote...

Except, you don't have to do an exhaustive search of every merchant. You only have to compare him to one other merchant to find out he doesn't have the lowest prices. Your fault for believing a merchant when he said you were getting a good deal. Ever buy a car? I'm sure the salesman said you were getting the car for a steal, too.

This is a bogus argument because it is assumed that there WILL be a variation with merchants.  Bodahn doesn't say that his prices are the _lowest_, just that they are "low, low".  But the truth of the matter is that there is absolutely NOTHING "low" about his prices.  He is, in fact, the highest-priced merchant in the game.

Bodahn speaks with BioWare's voice.  _They_ are the ones that do the hard sell on the player, through Bodahn.  If your arguments is, "Your fault for having believed him" then what you ultimately are suggesting is, "Don't believe _anything_ that ANYONE has to say."

What a game that would be.  Adventure in the Land of Pathological Liars.  Even more bizarre than "Alice in Wonderland.

You are either freaking retarded or trolling to try and start a flame war.

[Realmzmaster]

The problem with booting Bodahn out of camp is that Sandal goes with him. You have no one to enchant your weapons. Sandal is the only one in the game that does it for the PC.

I use Bodahn for the convenience. He is not the lowest merchant in the game. He gives a sales pitch like any other salesmen.

You do not have to buy from Bodahn. You can sell everything to him. The other nice thing is everything you sell to him stays in inventory.

If you do the warden's keep quest you get a second merchant to trade with. The only problem is Levi will not travel with you.

Bodahn speaks withe Bioware's voice? He is a fictional character in a video game. You are the one who chooses to buy or sell to him. He states that he has low low prices. He does not state in relation to what or who.

[CptPatch]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Bodhan is the classic charming rascal. It would be out of character for him to REALLY be cheap. But he did take Sandal in (and doesn't charge for enchanting), so he's not a complete twit.

Game wise, I can see why the developers don't have him as the cheapest-- special items and prices are the reward for exploring the world and shopping around.

I would actually have NO problem with Bodahn if across the spectrum of profit margin tacked on, he fell somewhere between top and bottom.  It is the fact that it is THE most expensive merchant that has been given the most prime real estate in all of Ferelden: my party's Camp.

Key to retail success: Location, location, location.

[twintalons]

I always thought the way he said 'AND with your *discount*' sounded suspicious, like he was putting discount in inverted commas ..........

[soteria]

This is a bogus argument because it is assumed that there WILL be a variation with merchants. Bodahn doesn't say that his prices are the _lowest_, just that they are "low, low". But the truth of the matter is that there is absolutely NOTHING "low" about his prices. He is, in fact, the highest-priced merchant in the game.



Bodahn speaks with BioWare's voice. _They_ are the ones that do the hard sell on the player, through Bodahn. If your arguments is, "Your fault for having believed him" then what you ultimately are suggesting is, "Don't believe _anything_ that ANYONE has to say."

If you expect variation between merchants, and look for it, you'll find his prices are higher than the norm. If you don't expect it, and don't look for it, well, ignorance is bliss. If you don't care enough about the prices they're charging to go somewhere else, your loss.



As for the second part of your argument, I bet you believed the guy in Denerim who told you to look for the ashes near Lake Calenhad. Or maybe you believed Anora when she told you she would be fine with you executing Loghain. Whether you like it or not, NPCs lie to you. This is an RPG. It's your own fault if you decided for some strange reason that this particular NPC is speaking with "Bioware's voice."



In an RPG, as in life, you have to decide if you want to trust someone or not. People lie to you in real life, too--including car salesmen. You need to decide if you're going to believe anything they say. So yeah, that's what I'm saying. Get over it.

[CptPatch]

twintalons wrote...

I always thought the way he said 'AND with your *discount*' sounded suspicious, like he was putting discount in inverted commas ..........

Well, he also says, "I'm sure you will be pleased with your discount...."  Given that he MUST know that he charges more than EVERYONE else (since ALL merchants keep tabs on what the competition is charging/selling for), that has got to be one helluva bald-faced lie.  Do NOT play poker with this guy.

[CptPatch]

soteria wrote...
If you expect variation between merchants, and look for it, you'll find his prices are higher than the norm. If you don't expect it, and don't look for it, well, ignorance is bliss. If you don't care enough about the prices they're charging to go somewhere else, your loss.

You Bodahn-defenders just don't seem to get what it is, at the root, that I am complaining about.

This is a designers-versus-players issue.  Literally, who or what kind of merchant gets placed in the Camp is determined entirely by the designers.  Furthermore, it is they who have determined that Bodahn is the _ONLY_ choice for in-Camp merchant we are given.  To make it even more certain that you WILL accept him as your singular in-Camp merchant, he is the _ONLY_ source for three pieces of the Blood Dragon armor.  Furthermore, he is the _ONLY_ source where you can get 3 of the 7 available backpacks.  And for all of those things, Bodahn WILL charge the highest possible price. AND Bodahn/Sandal is the _ONLY_ source you have for getting objects enchanted.  (Not even the grateful Magi at the Tower after "Broken Circle" will give you access to their Tranquil item-enchanting service.)

Your ONLY alternative to having Bodahn be able to gouge you to the max is to refuse him to set up in Camp -- in which case you can kiss the Blood Dragon armor and backpacks goodbye.  (Well, actually you CAN'T kiss them goodbye because you'll never even get the chance to see them.)

Of all the merchants in all of Ferelden, WHY is it that we are saddled with the absolute most expensive one?  The answer is, "Because the designers decided to rape your party's finances as much as they possibly could -- without making it obvious that that is what they were doing." 

It isn't until you get out and about and get the opportunity to do some comparison shopping with ALL of the other merchants that a you get the chance to learn that from the very beginning, despite all of his smarmy merchant assurances, Bodahn has been squeezing you as much as Dwarvenly possible.

Now, do a little honest-to-god roleplaying:  What would you do, as party leader, once you figured out the extent Bodahn has been gouging the party?  Simply kick him out of Camp (allowing him to keep all that gold he milked you for)?  Kick him out AFTER taking back the excessive amounts he had tacked on to all transactions?  Kick him out after having relieved him of ALL of his money (for punitive damages)?  Take all of his money AND loot his wagon before kicking him out (again for punitive damages)?  Hurt him badly to "teach him a lesson"?  Kill him, to be certain he doesn't gouge other unsuspecting customers, ever again?  Or maybe even decide to do NOTHING at all.  What choice are you given for dealing with Bodahn once you've realized he's been screwing you on a regular basis?

The choices the designers give you for that mercantile extortionist amount to NOTHING AT ALL.  Apparently the designers seem to think that the players actually enjoy being schtupped by Bodahn.  Even if your stance with the price-gouging merchant in Lothering was to stop _his_ price-gouging.  Apparently _we_ don't mind if it's us being gouged.

The decision to dump THE MOST EXPENSIVE merchant on the party was a designer decision.  It was also a designer decision to NOT include _any_ reaction by the players to dealing with learning they've been gouged.

We have been done unto, with no real option or opportunity to defend ourselves.  Put into a sexual analogy, we've been deliberately raped.

Now smile when the rapist asks, "Was it good for you?  It was good for me!"

[jmp0505]

Did you just compare the fact that a made-up merchant, in a video game, sells his imaginary game wares for more pretend money than the other made up merchants - to a "rapist"?   Really?

For gods sake man, get a little perspective.So what if it was a designer decision - it's a flipping video game,.   Let it go.

*walks out of thread*

[JJM152]

jmp0505 wrote...

Did you just compare the fact that a made-up merchant, in a video game, sells his imaginary game wares for more pretend money than the other made up merchants - to a "rapist"?   Really?

For gods sake man, get a little perspective.So what if it was a designer decision - it's a flipping video game,.   Let it go.

*walks out of thread*

I stand by my original assesment. Retarded or Trolling.

[GithCheater]

This thread is very amusing to me ...



Bodahn's overhead must be incredibly high. He only sells to the PC's adventuring group, and he goes into debt buying the leftovers from the PC's adventuring group.



Perhaps if Bodahn set up shop in Denerim and had a larger customer base, he might be able to offer lower prices.

[YunDog]

CptPatch wrote...

Of all the merchants in all of Ferelden, WHY is it that we are saddled with the absolute most expensive one?  The answer is, "Because the designers decided to rape your party's finances as much as they possibly could -- without making it obvious that that is what they were doing." 

The choices the designers give you for that mercantile extortionist amount to NOTHING AT ALL.  Apparently the designers seem to think that the players actually enjoy being schtupped by Bodahn.  Even if your stance with the price-gouging merchant in Lothering was to stop _his_ price-gouging.  Apparently _we_ don't mind if it's us being gouged.

Now smile when the rapist asks, "Was it good for you?  It was good for me!"

Yes exactly, Im glad you figured all this out for yourself

Its called making the game challenging for the player in a number of different ways - so the PC isnt rolling in so much cash that the in game coin becomes an irrelevence.

If you want his stuff you goto pay for it - Man Im sure Ive heard of this somewhere, something like demand or some such - dont want his goods dont buy them - hey you dont HAVE to have any of his stock to play the game - so your bioware is deliberately screwing its players - fails. Bioware is trying to subtley make the game more challenging for lazy players who cant be bothered shopping around. I mean they couldve not put him in the camp, they couldve put him in the deep roads where he came from.

your getting raped - please grow some common sense and maturity - your talking about a fictional game character and in game coin - which is barely needed in the game anyway

I reserve the 'raped' call for real world money

edit: by the way what happens to your in game millions once you kill the archdemon

Modifié par YunDog, 13 janvier 2010 - 05:57 .

[CptPatch]

Hmm. I'm reminded of an allegorical tale:

A man owns a dog. EVERY day, he beats the dog. Yet the dog does _not_ run away. Why is that?

Answer: Because it knows of no other life.



IF the players knew in the very first game, "This is THE most expensive place to buy stuff", the player would at least know that it would be wiser to save his money and buy from elsewhere. BUT, he's just started, so how is he to know that's the case? He has just been pummeled with the Honest Bodahn sales propaganda. Would BioWare blatantly lie so insistently so early in the game? Apparently so. But it will take some traveling to figure that out.



If BioWare felt it was necessary to reduce the players' available cash, all the designers would have needed to do was reduce the amount of money that shows up as loot and reduce how much they get paid for items. (Oh, wait. They DID do that.) There was absolutely no need to essentially _con_ the players out of even more cash. Yet, they chose to approach the situation in this sleazy fashion: saddle them with someone that WILL cheat them at every turn.



Heck. I suppose that you'd think it was cool for then to have SPOILER assassinate them in their sleep. Their own damn fault for being so trusting, right?

[soteria]

This is a designers-versus-players issue. Literally, who or what kind of merchant gets placed in the Camp is determined entirely by the designers. Furthermore, it is they who have determined that Bodahn is the _ONLY_ choice for in-Camp merchant we are given. To make it even more certain that you WILL accept him as your singular in-Camp merchant, he is the _ONLY_ source for three pieces of the Blood Dragon armor. Furthermore, he is the _ONLY_ source where you can get 3 of the 7 available backpacks. And for all of those things, Bodahn WILL charge the highest possible price. AND Bodahn/Sandal is the _ONLY_ source you have for getting objects enchanted. (Not even the grateful Magi at the Tower after "Broken Circle" will give you access to their Tranquil item-enchanting service.)

1. You don't have to buy the Blood Dragon armor. But if you do, so what? It's a unique set of armor, he can charge what he wants. The other pieces aren't that great anyway.



2. Depending on how/when you buy backpacks, you don't even need to buy 3 from him. Plus, the last one only gives 5 slots.



3. Sandal enchants items free. Are you stupid?



4. Consider it all the tax on stupid and lazy.

[elys]

CptPatch wrote...

I've never paid attention the prices, I just buy and sell at the first merchant I encounter to free my inventory slots.
Which means that practically, I trade a lot with Bodhan. But I though he was the best merchant to trade with according to his discount chit-chat.
Until I read this topic. Now I think I'm gonna make an addin to make Bodhan "beheadable".

Modifié par elys, 13 janvier 2010 - 09:21 .

[Haplose]

CptPatch wrote...

soteria wrote...
If you expect variation between merchants, and look for it, you'll find his prices are higher than the norm. If you don't expect it, and don't look for it, well, ignorance is bliss. If you don't care enough about the prices they're charging to go somewhere else, your loss.

You Bodahn-defenders just don't seem to get what it is, at the root, that I am complaining about.

This is a designers-versus-players issue.  Literally, who or what kind of merchant gets placed in the Camp is determined entirely by the designers.  Furthermore, it is they who have determined that Bodahn is the _ONLY_ choice for in-Camp merchant we are given.  To make it even more certain that you WILL accept him as your singular in-Camp merchant, he is the _ONLY_ source for three pieces of the Blood Dragon armor.  Furthermore, he is the _ONLY_ source where you can get 3 of the 7 available backpacks.  And for all of those things, Bodahn WILL charge the highest possible price. AND Bodahn/Sandal is the _ONLY_ source you have for getting objects enchanted.  (Not even the grateful Magi at the Tower after "Broken Circle" will give you access to their Tranquil item-enchanting service.)

Your ONLY alternative to having Bodahn be able to gouge you to the max is to refuse him to set up in Camp -- in which case you can kiss the Blood Dragon armor and backpacks goodbye.  (Well, actually you CAN'T kiss them goodbye because you'll never even get the chance to see them.)

Of all the merchants in all of Ferelden, WHY is it that we are saddled with the absolute most expensive one?  The answer is, "Because the designers decided to rape your party's finances as much as they possibly could -- without making it obvious that that is what they were doing." 

It isn't until you get out and about and get the opportunity to do some comparison shopping with ALL of the other merchants that a you get the chance to learn that from the very beginning, despite all of his smarmy merchant assurances, Bodahn has been squeezing you as much as Dwarvenly possible.

Now, do a little honest-to-god roleplaying:  What would you do, as party leader, once you figured out the extent Bodahn has been gouging the party?  Simply kick him out of Camp (allowing him to keep all that gold he milked you for)?  Kick him out AFTER taking back the excessive amounts he had tacked on to all transactions?  Kick him out after having relieved him of ALL of his money (for punitive damages)?  Take all of his money AND loot his wagon before kicking him out (again for punitive damages)?  Hurt him badly to "teach him a lesson"?  Kill him, to be certain he doesn't gouge other unsuspecting customers, ever again?  Or maybe even decide to do NOTHING at all.  What choice are you given for dealing with Bodahn once you've realized he's been screwing you on a regular basis?

The choices the designers give you for that mercantile extortionist amount to NOTHING AT ALL.  Apparently the designers seem to think that the players actually enjoy being schtupped by Bodahn.  Even if your stance with the price-gouging merchant in Lothering was to stop _his_ price-gouging.  Apparently _we_ don't mind if it's us being gouged.

The decision to dump THE MOST EXPENSIVE merchant on the party was a designer decision.  It was also a designer decision to NOT include _any_ reaction by the players to dealing with learning they've been gouged.

We have been done unto, with no real option or opportunity to defend ourselves.  Put into a sexual analogy, we've been deliberately raped.

Now smile when the rapist asks, "Was it good for you?  It was good for me!"

Kinda sad.
You do realize it's a game, right?

Try to get a life maybe?