170 réponses à ce sujet

[k.lalh]

JadeShepard wrote...

k.lalh wrote...

chidingewe8036 wrote...

at the end of the day my fellow fans made it all better, you guys made it worth it. I may b**** and moan but atleast you guys know what I am feeling about this and respond accordingly whether it is positive or negative you respond and I appreciate that. THAT is why i keep coming back we all love Mass Effect and want to see it succeed thats all. Bioware is better than this I just know they are.

It's funny actually. I enjoy this community and this game a lot. I haven't started posting/commenting until recently, but I did frequently read things before that. In fact I've been laying off a lot of things because of how hooked I am on Mass Effect. 

Pretty sure I have a copy of Halo 4 lying around somewhere that I haven't gotten to yet.

As much as I agree with you, both about the game and community. You should really play the Halo 4 campaign.

I highly recommend it.

I might get to it this weekend actually, while I wait for the hype train to reach it's destination.

[ZajoE38]

After the Omega I got just one thought - Bioware, hands off the Mass Effect before you ruin it. Omega was something terrible. How can they come up with something like that after perfect Leviathan? When I want action I play GoW, when I want sci-fi RPG I play ME.

[Mcfly616]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

[ZajoE38]

It is a bad idea to get DLC reflected in war assets because the feedback is transparent. From Ashes has a good feedback - new good squadmate and addition to plot (Javik telling about AI vs organics in his cycle). Leviathan had perfect feedback about lore. The secret of Reapers revealed. Omega... nothing. DLC must add something to game, not just shooting.

[PainCakesx]

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all.

Yes, I get that it is implied that Shepard lives; however, in a visual medium, this needs to be conveyed *visually* in order to provide the catharsis that many require. I can headcannon his survival and reunion just fine, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as them showing it. It's the author's job to conclude the story, not the viewer. Speculation is fine, but speculating the end of the protagonist's character arc is a different thing entirely. It's hard to want to buy pre-ending DLC that has no real impact on the story when the ending itself is so unsatisfying.

I get that you like the ending as is, but to blatantly (and rudely) dismiss anyone who disagrees is very close minded. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 29 janvier 2013 - 08:44 .

[Applepie_Svk]

ZajoE38 wrote...

It is a bad idea to get DLC reflected in war assets because the feedback is transparent. From Ashes has a good feedback - new good squadmate and addition to plot (Javik telling about AI vs organics in his cycle). Leviathan had perfect feedback about lore. The secret of Reapers revealed. Omega... nothing. DLC must add something to game, not just shooting.

Leviathan was awfull as railoading and attempt to justify bad ending and From Ashes despite that it was the only good DLC for ME3 was spoiled by the fact as a 1 day DLC. What is funny about ME3 is that Casey hismelf said that he would never put piece of Reaper or Prothean lore into the paid DLC and here we go Leviathan and From Ashes... simply said blackmail.

[Mcfly616]

k.lalh wrote...

JadeShepard wrote...

k.lalh wrote...

chidingewe8036 wrote...

at the end of the day my fellow fans made it all better, you guys made it worth it. I may b**** and moan but atleast you guys know what I am feeling about this and respond accordingly whether it is positive or negative you respond and I appreciate that. THAT is why i keep coming back we all love Mass Effect and want to see it succeed thats all. Bioware is better than this I just know they are.

It's funny actually. I enjoy this community and this game a lot. I haven't started posting/commenting until recently, but I did frequently read things before that. In fact I've been laying off a lot of things because of how hooked I am on Mass Effect. 

Pretty sure I have a copy of Halo 4 lying around somewhere that I haven't gotten to yet.

As much as I agree with you, both about the game and community. You should really play the Halo 4 campaign.

I highly recommend it.

I might get to it this weekend actually, while I wait for the hype train to reach it's destination.

yeah. It really is a great game. However, as a long time Halo fan, I highly suggest you read the Forerunner Novels (or atleast look over the plot summaries on Wikipedia), or else you will not understand a thing about the campaign or the main antagonist.

Regardless of whether you've played every Halo game before, unless you know the novels you won't be understanding anything or anybody but the Master Chief and Cortana. There is basically little to no exposition whatsoever on the Forerunners or the Didact. The game just assumes you're familiar with them and their backstory.

I only tell you this because I love Halo. And I would hate for your experience to be tainted (story-wise) because you went and jumped into the game expecting it to tell you what's going on.

(Me and a good friend of mine have purchased every Halo game on its release day. He had no clue what was going on. I did. The only thing that differentiates our experiences is that I read the novels.)

[TurianRebel212]

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

No. I love ME but the ME I enjoyed is over, well still have this DLC, so it's not quite over, but close. Bioware has said that about Shep's story It's over. Apart from Sheps story I really don't have an intrest in seeing what the universe looks after ME3 and the final choices. As for the reunion. It kinda makes sense doesn't it? Then why show shep breathing at all? If this is the end of Sheps story? Why? Bioware has stated that it's the end of 'shep's story. So why would they show that? I guess that's 'closure' and 'artistic integrity' for ya. Cool story BioWare. 

[k.lalh]

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah. It really is a great game. However, as a long time Halo fan, I highly suggest you read the Forerunner Novels (or atleast look over the plot summaries on Wikipedia), or else you will not understand a thing about the campaign or the main antagonist.

Regardless of whether you've played every Halo game before, unless you know the novels you won't be understanding anything or anybody but the Master Chief and Cortana. There is basically little to no exposition whatsoever on the Forerunners or the Didact. The game just assumes you're familiar with them and their backstory.

I only tell you this because I love Halo. And I would hate for your experience to be tainted (story-wise) because you went and jumped into the game expecting it to tell you what's going on.

(Me and a good friend of mine have purchased every Halo game on its release day. He had no clue what was going on. I did. The only thing that differentiates our experiences is that I read the novels.)

I'll read the plot summaries then, or ask my younger brother, who is a huge Halo fan. I appreciate the heads up.

But we should get back on topic before we get one of these:

[PainCakesx]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

No. I love ME but the ME I enjoyed is over, well still have this DLC, so it's not quite over, but close. Bioware has said that about Shep's story It's over. Apart from Sheps story I really don't have an intrest in seeing what the universe looks after ME3 and the final choices. As for the reunion. It kinda makes sense doesn't it? Then why show shep breathing at all? If this is the end of Sheps story? Why? Bioware has stated that it's the end of 'shep's story. So why would they show that? I guess that's 'closure' and 'artistic integrity' for ya. Cool story BioWare. 

As it stands, there's really no reason not to do something about that scene. Even just a 30 second scene would satisfy most and at the very least stop the bleeding. 

They aren't even willing to do that (unless they do the unlikely) - it just doesn't make sense.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 29 janvier 2013 - 08:52 .

[ZajoE38]

Ending was good, leviathan was good. My opinion. Apart from that Leviathan was perfect because it represented ME basics. I felt like I was playing ME1.

[Eterna]

chidingewe8036 wrote...

JadeShepard wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Just leave now and save us all the headache. I'd rather not endure your melodrammatic whinning in every thread for the next few months. 

Does my melodrammatic whinning give you a headache Eterna5?

he was directing that toward me and I told him I loved him but he did not respond.............I am sad now

My heart has been broken too many times. Your feelings are wasted on me. 

[TurianRebel212]

PainCakesx wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

No. I love ME but the ME I enjoyed is over, well still have this DLC, so it's not quite over, but close. Bioware has said that about Shep's story It's over. Apart from Sheps story I really don't have an intrest in seeing what the universe looks after ME3 and the final choices. As for the reunion. It kinda makes sense doesn't it? Then why show shep breathing at all? If this is the end of Sheps story? Why? Bioware has stated that it's the end of 'shep's story. So why would they show that? I guess that's 'closure' and 'artistic integrity' for ya. Cool story BioWare. 

As it stands, there's really no reason not to do something about that scene. Even just a 30 second scene would satisfy most and at the very least stop the bleeding. 

They aren't even willing to do that (unless they do the unlikely) - it just doesn't make sense.

Not much about the EC made sense. I mean c'mon. That's what they thought people would like? I guess they never read the forums. The EC just polished a turd, but it's still a turd. I'm over it. And I've accepted that this is how ME ends. But I'm still dumbfounded by what they added and what they didn't add.Like I said- show war assets. Show reunion. Probably no issues with endings. DLC sales go up. More people play Multiplayer. More micro transactions. Respect of dev restored. Intrest in future projects. Intrest in ME franchise. Still have 'artistic integrity'. Win. Win. Win. 


Like you said- It doesn't make sense. 

[chidingewe8036]

Eterna5 wrote...

chidingewe8036 wrote...

JadeShepard wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Just leave now and save us all the headache. I'd rather not endure your melodrammatic whinning in every thread for the next few months. 

Does my melodrammatic whinning give you a headache Eterna5?

he was directing that toward me and I told him I loved him but he did not respond.............I am sad now

My heart has been broken too many times. Your feelings are wasted on me. 

yeah man I know what u mean there..........all to well

a little fan love never hurt anyone

[Mcfly616]

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all.

Yes, I get that it is implied that Shepard lives; however, in a visual medium, this needs to be conveyed *visually* in order to provide the catharsis that many require. I can headcannon his survival and reunion just fine, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as them showing it. It's the author's job to conclude the story, not the viewer. Speculation is fine, but speculating the end of the protagonist's character arc is a different thing entirely. It's hard to want to buy pre-ending DLC that has no real impact on the story when the ending itself is so unsatisfying.

I get that you like the ending as is, but to blatantly (and rudely) dismiss anyone who disagrees is very close minded. 

movies are "visual storytelling". Tell me, is Cobb awake or dreaming?

The final scene of the Mass Effect trilogy is one that tells you Shepards fate. He either lives or dies. Breathe scene means he lives. Period. End of story (and please don't reference "its whatever you want it to be." The file name says it, the strategy guide says it.)

And why did they do this? Well because they didn't want to tell the player how our Shepard lives out the rest of his days. Because only we know. People dont want their player agency taken away, yet they complain about the scene that gives them the epitome of "player agency".


" There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all."

Your point? Mass Effect 3 gives you the latter. Your Shepard either lives or dies. You see the immediate impacts of your choices, and are left to speculate what the future holds. And if we're talking about your squadmates, well their closure is given right in-game:

Vega - going N7
Ash/Kaidan - Spectres
Garrus - retiring and living off the royalties from the vids
Liara - plans on writing a book with Javik
Javik - plans on writing a book with Liara and experiencing actual peace OR sacrificing himself at his crews resting place in the Cronian Nebula
Tali - builds a house on Rannoch

(No head cannon required)

[Yuqi]

Wayning_Star wrote...

I just hope they don't overprice it..

[chidingewe8036]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

No. I love ME but the ME I enjoyed is over, well still have this DLC, so it's not quite over, but close. Bioware has said that about Shep's story It's over. Apart from Sheps story I really don't have an intrest in seeing what the universe looks after ME3 and the final choices. As for the reunion. It kinda makes sense doesn't it? Then why show shep breathing at all? If this is the end of Sheps story? Why? Bioware has stated that it's the end of 'shep's story. So why would they show that? I guess that's 'closure' and 'artistic integrity' for ya. Cool story BioWare. 

As it stands, there's really no reason not to do something about that scene. Even just a 30 second scene would satisfy most and at the very least stop the bleeding. 

They aren't even willing to do that (unless they do the unlikely) - it just doesn't make sense.

Not much about the EC made sense. I mean c'mon. That's what they thought people would like? I guess they never read the forums. The EC just polished a turd, but it's still a turd. I'm over it. And I've accepted that this is how ME ends. But I'm still dumbfounded by what they added and what they didn't add.Like I said- show war assets. Show reunion. Probably no issues with endings. DLC sales go up. More people play Multiplayer. More micro transactions. Respect of dev restored. Intrest in future projects. Intrest in ME franchise. Still have 'artistic integrity'. Win. Win. Win. 


Like you said- It doesn't make sense. 

I told you guys this did not make any sense a long time ago in a now far away thread...........I said all of this just does not make any freakin sense man its crazy man.

[PainCakesx]

Mcfly616 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all.

Yes, I get that it is implied that Shepard lives; however, in a visual medium, this needs to be conveyed *visually* in order to provide the catharsis that many require. I can headcannon his survival and reunion just fine, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as them showing it. It's the author's job to conclude the story, not the viewer. Speculation is fine, but speculating the end of the protagonist's character arc is a different thing entirely. It's hard to want to buy pre-ending DLC that has no real impact on the story when the ending itself is so unsatisfying.

I get that you like the ending as is, but to blatantly (and rudely) dismiss anyone who disagrees is very close minded. 

movies are "visual storytelling". Tell me, is Cobb awake or dreaming?

The final scene of the Mass Effect trilogy is one that tells you Shepards fate. He either lives or dies. Breathe scene means he lives. Period. End of story (and please don't reference "its whatever you want it to be." The file name says it, the strategy guide says it.)

And why did they do this? Well because they didn't want to tell the player how our Shepard lives out the rest of his days. Because only we know. People dont want their player agency taken away, yet they complain about the scene that gives them the epitome of "player agency".


" There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all."

Your point? Mass Effect 3 gives you the latter. Your Shepard either lives or dies. You see the immediate impacts of your choices, and are left to speculate what the future holds. And if we're talking about your squadmates, well their closure is given right in-game:

Vega - going N7
Ash/Kaidan - Spectres
Garrus - retiring and living off the royalties from the vids
Liara - plans on writing a book with Javik
Javik - plans on writing a book with Liara and experiencing actual peace OR sacrificing himself at his crews resting place in the Cronian Nebula
Tali - builds a house on Rannoch

(No head cannon required)

We're not going to see eye to eye on this, so debating this further is pointless. I wish I could find the ending fulfilling, but I don't. 

I am well aware of what happens, but the ending as of now feels hollow. It's like reading about the ending of a book through a plot synopsis and actually reading it in the book. One is a hollow experience, the other isn't.

And, for the record, the ending of Inception is apples and oranges to the ending to Mass Effect 3. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 29 janvier 2013 - 09:17 .

[TurianRebel212]

Mcfly616 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all.

Yes, I get that it is implied that Shepard lives; however, in a visual medium, this needs to be conveyed *visually* in order to provide the catharsis that many require. I can headcannon his survival and reunion just fine, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as them showing it. It's the author's job to conclude the story, not the viewer. Speculation is fine, but speculating the end of the protagonist's character arc is a different thing entirely. It's hard to want to buy pre-ending DLC that has no real impact on the story when the ending itself is so unsatisfying.

I get that you like the ending as is, but to blatantly (and rudely) dismiss anyone who disagrees is very close minded. 

movies are "visual storytelling". Tell me, is Cobb awake or dreaming?

The final scene of the Mass Effect trilogy is one that tells you Shepards fate. He either lives or dies. Breathe scene means he lives. Period. End of story (and please don't reference "its whatever you want it to be." The file name says it, the strategy guide says it.)

And why did they do this? Well because they didn't want to tell the player how our Shepard lives out the rest of his days. Because only we know. People dont want their player agency taken away, yet they complain about the scene that gives them the epitome of "player agency".


" There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all."

Your point? Mass Effect 3 gives you the latter. Your Shepard either lives or dies. You see the immediate impacts of your choices, and are left to speculate what the future holds. And if we're talking about your squadmates, well their closure is given right in-game:

Vega - going N7
Ash/Kaidan - Spectres
Garrus - retiring and living off the royalties from the vids
Liara - plans on writing a book with Javik
Javik - plans on writing a book with Liara and experiencing actual peace OR sacrificing himself at his crews resting place in the Cronian Nebula
Tali - builds a house on Rannoch

(No head cannon required)

When you tie up a story arc and you tie up a character, a well written story arc ties up the BIG question and issues. Good story writing is story writing that doesn't leave speculation of Big issues and plot holes. If you don't think the EC for ME3 doesnt' have loads of specualtions and plot holes then I guess you would love the endings. 

An example is fight club- the book not the film. The story arc of the character is finished as is 'project mayhem' but the themes and the future of the character are left to be interpreted. You can have interpretation but not specualtion. 

Also, another rule of thumb for good story telling is not to introuduce a major character in the last 15 minutes (the catalyst) and then expect the audience to go  "oh I get it, that all makes since". Which is why, in my opinion, From Ashes and Leviathan should have been on the disc from day 1, especially Leviathan because he does warn of the Catalyst and what it is, while not a lot he does forshadow it, Just my two cents. 

[Mcfly616]

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all.

Yes, I get that it is implied that Shepard lives; however, in a visual medium, this needs to be conveyed *visually* in order to provide the catharsis that many require. I can headcannon his survival and reunion just fine, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as them showing it. It's the author's job to conclude the story, not the viewer. Speculation is fine, but speculating the end of the protagonist's character arc is a different thing entirely. It's hard to want to buy pre-ending DLC that has no real impact on the story when the ending itself is so unsatisfying.

I get that you like the ending as is, but to blatantly (and rudely) dismiss anyone who disagrees is very close minded. 

movies are "visual storytelling". Tell me, is Cobb awake or dreaming?

The final scene of the Mass Effect trilogy is one that tells you Shepards fate. He either lives or dies. Breathe scene means he lives. Period. End of story (and please don't reference "its whatever you want it to be." The file name says it, the strategy guide says it.)

And why did they do this? Well because they didn't want to tell the player how our Shepard lives out the rest of his days. Because only we know. People dont want their player agency taken away, yet they complain about the scene that gives them the epitome of "player agency".


" There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all."

Your point? Mass Effect 3 gives you the latter. Your Shepard either lives or dies. You see the immediate impacts of your choices, and are left to speculate what the future holds. And if we're talking about your squadmates, well their closure is given right in-game:

Vega - going N7
Ash/Kaidan - Spectres
Garrus - retiring and living off the royalties from the vids
Liara - plans on writing a book with Javik
Javik - plans on writing a book with Liara and experiencing actual peace OR sacrificing himself at his crews resting place in the Cronian Nebula
Tali - builds a house on Rannoch

(No head cannon required)

And, for the record, the ending of Inception is apples and oranges to the ending to Mass Effect 3. 

that's my entire point. You said its visual story-telling and that they shouldve shown us what happened. Inception never provides an answer or shows the top fall. Whereas ME3 definitively shows Shepard surviving or dying via the memorial wall scene as well as the breathe scene (or lack there of)

[chidingewe8036]

The bottom line is that those screen shots literally don't mean crap right now, they don't tell us anything at all. Bascially Gamble and Hudson were like here give them this and let them speculate.

Trolls

[PainCakesx]

Mcfly616 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all.

Yes, I get that it is implied that Shepard lives; however, in a visual medium, this needs to be conveyed *visually* in order to provide the catharsis that many require. I can headcannon his survival and reunion just fine, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as them showing it. It's the author's job to conclude the story, not the viewer. Speculation is fine, but speculating the end of the protagonist's character arc is a different thing entirely. It's hard to want to buy pre-ending DLC that has no real impact on the story when the ending itself is so unsatisfying.

I get that you like the ending as is, but to blatantly (and rudely) dismiss anyone who disagrees is very close minded. 

movies are "visual storytelling". Tell me, is Cobb awake or dreaming?

The final scene of the Mass Effect trilogy is one that tells you Shepards fate. He either lives or dies. Breathe scene means he lives. Period. End of story (and please don't reference "its whatever you want it to be." The file name says it, the strategy guide says it.)

And why did they do this? Well because they didn't want to tell the player how our Shepard lives out the rest of his days. Because only we know. People dont want their player agency taken away, yet they complain about the scene that gives them the epitome of "player agency".


" There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all."

Your point? Mass Effect 3 gives you the latter. Your Shepard either lives or dies. You see the immediate impacts of your choices, and are left to speculate what the future holds. And if we're talking about your squadmates, well their closure is given right in-game:

Vega - going N7
Ash/Kaidan - Spectres
Garrus - retiring and living off the royalties from the vids
Liara - plans on writing a book with Javik
Javik - plans on writing a book with Liara and experiencing actual peace OR sacrificing himself at his crews resting place in the Cronian Nebula
Tali - builds a house on Rannoch

(No head cannon required)

And, for the record, the ending of Inception is apples and oranges to the ending to Mass Effect 3. 

that's my entire point. You said its visual story-telling and that they shouldve shown us what happened. Inception never provides an answer or shows the top fall. Whereas ME3 definitively shows Shepard surviving or dying via the memorial wall scene as well as the breathe scene (or lack there of)

Cobb's story arc and character arc is completed. I don't want to spoil the movie here, but there IS closure to his character. 

Cobb embracing his children while the top is spinning is a hell of a lot more fulfilling than Shepard taking half a breath, buried in rubble - a scene that almost seemed like an afterthought.

Don't want to go too off topic here though. This is after all the ME3 forum, not the Inception forum.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 29 janvier 2013 - 09:37 .

[WolfyZA]

Femlob wrote...

Does this confirm IT?

OF COURSE IT DOES!!! lol

[TurianRebel212]

Inception isn't even Nolan's top 5, in my opinion.

1. The Dark Knight
2. Memento
3. The Dark Knight Rises
4. The Prestige
5. Insomnia

Off topic. sorry.

[Mcfly616]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I totally understand your point of view. It's a shame really. All Bioware had to do, in my opinion, was show our war assets in action and show a reunion for the destroy option with high EMS. That's it. But they seem to want to destroy the series. I'm holding on and buying the DLC cause I love the characters and story of ME, right up until the ending lol, but I truly get your point of view and agree with your stance. I tried to hold the wallet but I seem to in the 'thrall' of the rEApers, lol.

I'm all for "seeing" my war assets in action. But if the lack of a Reunion "destroys" the series for you.....well, you got some weird standards.



It's actually kind of funny.

There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all.

Yes, I get that it is implied that Shepard lives; however, in a visual medium, this needs to be conveyed *visually* in order to provide the catharsis that many require. I can headcannon his survival and reunion just fine, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as them showing it. It's the author's job to conclude the story, not the viewer. Speculation is fine, but speculating the end of the protagonist's character arc is a different thing entirely. It's hard to want to buy pre-ending DLC that has no real impact on the story when the ending itself is so unsatisfying.

I get that you like the ending as is, but to blatantly (and rudely) dismiss anyone who disagrees is very close minded. 

movies are "visual storytelling". Tell me, is Cobb awake or dreaming?

The final scene of the Mass Effect trilogy is one that tells you Shepards fate. He either lives or dies. Breathe scene means he lives. Period. End of story (and please don't reference "its whatever you want it to be." The file name says it, the strategy guide says it.)

And why did they do this? Well because they didn't want to tell the player how our Shepard lives out the rest of his days. Because only we know. People dont want their player agency taken away, yet they complain about the scene that gives them the epitome of "player agency".


" There's a difference between an ending that provides closure but encourages speculation, and an ending that offers no closure at all."

Your point? Mass Effect 3 gives you the latter. Your Shepard either lives or dies. You see the immediate impacts of your choices, and are left to speculate what the future holds. And if we're talking about your squadmates, well their closure is given right in-game:

Vega - going N7
Ash/Kaidan - Spectres
Garrus - retiring and living off the royalties from the vids
Liara - plans on writing a book with Javik
Javik - plans on writing a book with Liara and experiencing actual peace OR sacrificing himself at his crews resting place in the Cronian Nebula
Tali - builds a house on Rannoch

(No head cannon required)

When you tie up a story arc and you tie up a character, a well written story arc ties up the BIG question and issues. Good story writing is story writing that doesn't leave speculation of Big issues and plot holes. If you don't think the EC for ME3 doesnt' have loads of specualtions and plot holes then I guess you would love the endings. 

An example is fight club- the book not the film. The story arc of the character is finished as is 'project mayhem' but the themes and the future of the character are left to be interpreted. You can have interpretation but not specualtion. 

Also, another rule of thumb for good story telling is not to introuduce a major character in the last 15 minutes (the catalyst) and then expect the audience to go  "oh I get it, that all makes since". Which is why, in my opinion, From Ashes and Leviathan should have been on the disc from day 1, especially Leviathan because he does warn of the Catalyst and what it is, while not a lot he does forshadow it, Just my two cents. 

I'm only aware of one single plot hole. Anderson: "I followed you up".

That's about it.


And your so-called rule of them really isn't one at all. ME3 isn't the first game/movie/book to introduce a character in the final minutes/pages. Nor is it the first turn the narrative on its ear, and show you that everything wasn't as it seems. Everything doesn't turn out the way you expect it to.

To say theres some "rule of thumb" that states that this is a bad thing, well, its a crock.....seeing as how countless works of fiction have done it prior to Mass Effect and succeeded.


Agreed on From Ashes and Leviathan being in the game from the start. But they're there now. No need to cry over spilled milk.

And for the record, I hated the original endings. It was entirely too vague, abrupt and ambiguous. These traits caused many of the plotholes. The EC fixed my glaring issues with it....even though I never expected that to be a possibility without the removal of the Catalyst.