Aller au contenu

Photo

Illegal Wardens all over Ferelden!


55 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Basher of Glory

Basher of Glory
  • Members
  • 1 026 messages
Let's talk about Joseph.
He grew up in Redcliff and joined the armed forces of the Arl when he became 16. He served for 10 years and was mainly used as a scout. Thus, he learnt to handle a bow, to hide, to camouflage and - if necessary - to fend off enemies with his sword and his dagger. He was a good soldier and his superiors tried to hold him - they even offered a promotion to sergeant. But Joseph wanted to do something different now - especially since he has met Bella from the local Tavern.

He talked with the smith and they made a deal: Joseph will go hunting and sell all the hides to the smith. That's a good base for the future, especially because the smith promised to take Joseph as apprentice and - if he learns well - will sign over the smithy when he retires in some years.

Joseph tried to convince Bella to marry him, but she was not ready for such an engagement yet. On the other hand she liked Joseph and didn't want to break the developing liaison. So she encouraged him to become quickly the next smith and - because she tends to be a bit frivolous at times - insinuated that she needs a "strong man".
Well, Joseph was not unexperienced in these matters, but didn't really know, if he would count as "strong" in the sense of Bella's subtle hints.

After some weeks he heard rumours of  a new blight and that darkspawn-scouts were sighted near Redcliff. Joseph didn't care about that and started to ply his trade. He went out hunting.

In the woods, when he silently tried to find some deer, he suddenly saw strange creatures... a tall one with a big axe and two smaller, but sturdy archers. He remembered the tales of some veterans and was sure: This must be a darkspawn gang, scouting the surroundings of Redcliff!

He was in a good position and they were not aware of him, so it was quite easy to finish the archers off with his bow. The tall creature came close, frighteningly swinging his axe. But Joseph was quicker, shot another arrow into the creature's leg, pulled out his dagger and cut it's throat.

After calming down for a minute or two he became aware, that he killed three darkspawns. Now an odd thought shot into his mind: Someone in the army has told him, that the blood of darkspawn "makes a man strong". Was it just a story, a rumour or could it be true?

Whatever! Joseph was still turned euphoric because of his victory, that he didn't think much - he tried it.
He filled his canteen with the blood of the slain creatures and drank it without hesitating a second.
"For Bella!" he jubilated before his body was grappled by an invisible fist, shaking him to and fro, smashing him to the ground, where he squirmed in pain for several minutes. Finally a merciful dead faint released him from his agony.

He was found by some trappers, who brought him back to Redcliff. Noone had an idea, how to help the poor unconscious man, so they brought him to the church, where the revered mother prayed for him - three days.

Finally Joseph awoke and felt... quite normal. A bit dull in the stomach perhaps, but anything else seemed to be ok.
"I should talk with Bella!" came to his mind and he headed for the tavern.

END

Question:
Is Joseph now effectively compareable to a Grey Warden, although he has no clue about the ritual and the order?

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 09 janvier 2010 - 08:15 .


#2
Herr Uhl

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages
No, he is now a ghoul.

#3
Bullets McDeath

Bullets McDeath
  • Members
  • 2 973 messages
Being infected with the taint is not the same as being a Grey Warden. The Joining ritual itself also involves magic and the blood of the first Archdemon. So, basically, no.

#4
David Gaider

David Gaider
  • BioWare Employees
  • 4 514 messages

Baher of Glory wrote...
Question:
Is Joseph now effectively compareable to a Grey Warden, although he has no clue about the ritual and the order?

The flaw in your story is that simply drinking darkspawn blood does not make one a Grey Warden. Most likely Joseph would come down with the blight and become a ghoul in short order. The villagers would have found him delerious and sick with fever, and if he survived he would have disappeared one night and never been seen again.

Becoming a Grey Warden requires a dose of the darkspawn corruption in sufficient potency that it immediately affects someone, rather than slowly enough to sicken them. Archdemon blood can be used (though is understandably much rarer), but any darkspawn blood can be magically treated to make it work. Your rank-and-file darkspawn simply doesn't have enough of the corruption within him to do the trick... though who knows? If he drank enough, maybe it might work. I don't doubt a story of an "accidental" Grey Warden could be justified, although it would take some doing. Image IPB

Modifié par David Gaider, 09 janvier 2010 - 08:23 .

  • Aren aime ceci

#5
Apophis2412

Apophis2412
  • Members
  • 1 000 messages
A Grey Warden is someone who is a member of the Grey Warden order. Joseph was not a member of the order and thus not a Grey Warden. It's really that simple.

#6
Ginasue

Ginasue
  • Members
  • 246 messages
Without the spells that is put on the blood by the mages, and the other things that they do to it, he would not be a Grey Warden.

#7
Basher of Glory

Basher of Glory
  • Members
  • 1 026 messages

Ginasue wrote...

Without the spells that is put on the blood by the mages, and the other things that they do to it, he would not be a Grey Warden.


Hmm... another piece of lore I missed? When was this mentioned?

#8
Herr Uhl

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

Baher of Glory wrote...

Ginasue wrote...

Without the spells that is put on the blood by the mages, and the other things that they do to it, he would not be a Grey Warden.


Hmm... another piece of lore I missed? When was this mentioned?


When talking to Alastair about rebuilding the GW and talking to Riordan I think.

#9
nos_astra

nos_astra
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages
I thought at Ostagar the blood had to be prepared for the Joining. Darkspawn blood, Archdemon blood and lyrium. The mages did something with it, they didn't just mix the stuff, so I understood.

But then again, it is told that the blood is "infectious" and you shouldn't touch it. The one guy at Ostagar explains that to a group of soldiers standing around a dead - um - genlock? Touch darkspawn blood and you can a) be tainted or B) become immune, so he tells them. I wondered, why Sten, Leliana, Ohgren and everyone else in melee combat are constantly covered with blood, but don't seem to worry about darkspawn blood and the taint.

Are they becoming immune , just like that? And being immune doesn't mean you're a Grey Warden, right?
Did I miss something?

Modifié par klarabella, 09 janvier 2010 - 09:08 .


#10
Sabriana

Sabriana
  • Members
  • 4 381 messages
Duncan also instruct Alistair to go "get the mages to set up in the old chapel". That's when it dawned on me that magic is most likely involve.

#11
Kimarous

Kimarous
  • Members
  • 1 513 messages
I remember asking about this same issue before... "Seeing has how my Dog swallowed darkspawn blood and recovered, doesn't that mean he's technically a Warden?" The answer is no, for reasons stated above.

#12
Xandurpein

Xandurpein
  • Members
  • 3 045 messages

klarabella wrote...

I thought at Ostagar the blood had to be prepared for the Joining. Darkspawn blood, Archdemon blood and lyrium. The mages did something with it, they didn't just mix the stuff, so I understood.

But then again, it is told that the blood is "infectious" and you shouldn't touch it. The one guy at Ostagar explains that to a group of soldiers standing around a dead - um - genlock? Touch darkspawn blood and you can a) be tainted or B) become immune, so he tells them. I wondered, why Sten, Leliana, Ohgren and everyone else in melee combat are constantly covered with blood, but don't seem to worry about darkspawn blood and the taint.

Are they becoming immune , just like that? And being immune doesn't mean you're a Grey Warden, right?
Did I miss something?


I think it's been explained somewhere by one of the developers that technically there should be a risk that some of your party could get infected and even become ghouls, and they did contemplate having a mechanic for it in the game (with some cure available too) but decided to not use it as it would be too complicated.

#13
nos_astra

nos_astra
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages
Makes sense. Thanks, Xandurpein.

#14
Spitz6860

Spitz6860
  • Members
  • 573 messages
i hope the information of how to prepare the blood will be explained in the Awakening, your character will be rebuilding the order so obviously you will need to recruit new members and do the Joining.

#15
Basher of Glory

Basher of Glory
  • Members
  • 1 026 messages
If I understood correctly, my Joseph has a certain chance to become immune and must not necessarily spend his life as a ghoul with Bella.



If he could become immune, it could happen that Duncan hears about a veteran of Redcliff who killed a bunch of darkspawn and overcame a mysterious desease.

Duncan would most certainly want to talk with that guy and soon find out, what Joseph did.



Question:

Could Joseph, who is now immune, join the Wardens by absolving the official ritual?

#16
Spitz6860

Spitz6860
  • Members
  • 573 messages

Baher of Glory wrote...

If I understood correctly, my Joseph has a certain chance to become immune and must not necessarily spend his life as a ghoul with Bella.


do we know what happens to a person that has drunken pure darkspawn blood? i don't think it was explained anywhere. we know that the blood that GW recruits drink in the Joining is processed, something to do with magic and lyrium.

#17
Herr Uhl

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

Spitz6860 wrote...

do we know what happens to a person that has drunken pure darkspawn blood? i don't think it was explained anywhere. we know that the blood that GW recruits drink in the Joining is processed, something to do with magic and lyrium.


The dwarves do talk about it. There being scarce food other than darkspawn meat, they usually end up eating that there. And then they go the same way as Ruck.

#18
Basher of Glory

Basher of Glory
  • Members
  • 1 026 messages

David Gaider wrote...

If he drank enough, maybe it might work. I don't doubt a story of an "accidental" Grey Warden could be justified, although it would take some doing. Image IPB



An entire canteen or - perhaps more medieval - an entire pumpkin calabash is certainly A LOT, right?
:)

@ Herr Uhl

Well, I'm aware that EATING the meat of darkspawn is something very detrimental.
But shouldn't there be a difference between eating meat and blooddrinking?

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 09 janvier 2010 - 10:41 .


#19
MatronAdena

MatronAdena
  • Members
  • 1 087 messages
From what I get, or at least assume I get, is that small amounts of exposure to the blood is enough to eventually infect, and kill....though some may build up an immunity...and mind you this is from things like blood splatter etc....

To actually drink the blood strait would pretty much kill them.....that is unless they do survive and become ghouls.

So, at least from that stand point, I don't think Joseph would be able to build up an immunity to that much raw blood in one dose without becoming a ghoul....but....for arguments sake.....he builds up an immunity, I see no reason why he could not go through with the joining


one way or the other though, you take the taint, your on borrowed time regardless :)

and eating it, or drinking it would both be the same....eating if anything would be slower though ( more so if your cooking it )

Modifié par MatronAdena, 09 janvier 2010 - 10:44 .


#20
Herr Uhl

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

Baher of Glory wrote...
@ Herr Uhl

Well, I'm aware that EATING the meat of darkspawn is something very detrimental.
But shouldn't there be a difference between eating meat and blooddrinking?


Why? They do drink the blood also. I remember that being mentioned.

#21
Whailor

Whailor
  • Members
  • 386 messages
Duncan already tells in Ostagar that "he had the mages preparing for the ritual" while you were hunting for a blood, which is first hint that just gulping down the blood doesn't work. Ruck is also a sign that gulping down a lot of darkspawn blood (and meat, too) only isn't the way either. Ruck may have developed some tolerance to it but he's still just a smack away from becoming a ghoul.



So this hillybilly Joseph would simply end up as a ghoul, sooner or later.

#22
Herr Uhl

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

Whailor wrote...
So this hillybilly Joseph would simply end up as a ghoul, sooner or later.


If he drank 10 liter of blood or those random darkspawn were generals, he might be a GW though.

#23
Sarevok Anchev

Sarevok Anchev
  • Members
  • 1 404 messages

Baher of Glory wrote...

Let's talk about Joseph.
He grew up in Redcliff and joined the armed forces of the Arl when he became 16. He served for 10 years and was mainly used as a scout. Thus, he learnt to handle a bow, to hide, to camouflage and - if necessary - to fend off enemies with his sword and his dagger. He was a good soldier and his superiors tried to hold him - they even offered a promotion to sergeant. But Joseph wanted to do something different now - especially since he has met Bella from the local Tavern.

He talked with the smith and they made a deal: Joseph will go hunting and sell all the hides to the smith. That's a good base for the future, especially because the smith promised to take Joseph as apprentice and - if he learns well - will sign over the smithy when he retires in some years.

Joseph tried to convince Bella to marry him, but she was not ready for such an engagement yet. On the other hand she liked Joseph and didn't want to break the developing liaison. So she encouraged him to become quickly the next smith and - because she tends to be a bit frivolous at times - insinuated that she needs a "strong man".
Well, Joseph was not unexperienced in these matters, but didn't really know, if he would count as "strong" in the sense of Bella's subtle hints.

After some weeks he heard rumours of  a new blight and that darkspawn-scouts were sighted near Redcliff. Joseph didn't care about that and started to ply his trade. He went out hunting.

In the woods, when he silently tried to find some deer, he suddenly saw strange creatures... a tall one with a big axe and two smaller, but sturdy archers. He remembered the tales of some veterans and was sure: This must be a darkspawn gang, scouting the surroundings of Redcliff!

He was in a good position and they were not aware of him, so it was quite easy to finish the archers off with his bow. The tall creature came close, frighteningly swinging his axe. But Joseph was quicker, shot another arrow into the creature's leg, pulled out his dagger and cut it's throat.

After calming down for a minute or two he became aware, that he killed three darkspawns. Now an odd thought shot into his mind: Someone in the army has told him, that the blood of darkspawn "makes a man strong". Was it just a story, a rumour or could it be true?

Whatever! Joseph was still turned euphoric because of his victory, that he didn't think much - he tried it.
He filled his canteen with the blood of the slain creatures and drank it without hesitating a second.
"For Bella!" he jubilated before his body was grappled by an invisible fist, shaking him to and fro, smashing him to the ground, where he squirmed in pain for several minutes. Finally a merciful dead faint released him from his agony.

He was found by some trappers, who brought him back to Redcliff. Noone had an idea, how to help the poor unconscious man, so they brought him to the church, where the revered mother prayed for him - three days.

Finally Joseph awoke and felt... quite normal. A bit dull in the stomach perhaps, but anything else seemed to be ok.
"I should talk with Bella!" came to his mind and he headed for the tavern.

END

Question:
Is Joseph now effectively compareable to a Grey Warden, although he has no clue about the ritual and the order?


As i remember the Grey-Warden Joining Ritual also contains some Magic from the Circle, besides the Darkspawn-blood alone. True, sometimes people can survive the first deadly taint and become resistant, but
about 90% of all living beings die
5-7% survive at first, but become insane and driven by the tain > animals become blighted, humans become Ghouls.
Maybe 1-2% would become "Warden-like". I mean: It MUST BE POSSIBLE, or else you couldnt explain, how the first Grey Wardens could become tainted without former reserach and knowledge about a invnted Ritual.
But dont forget, that Wardens arent only strong Warriors. They also need a special "Mentality".
Guys like Daveth(willing to sacrifice, but lacking stability in mind) or Ser Jory(too much attached to normal life)
have their physical qualities, but lack something, that makes a Grey Warden even standout besides capable Fighters.

Your "Character" Joseph is maybe such a sturdy Man with capabilites as a Fighter, but would he be able to fight the blight in his self all the time, besides the blight in the real world? He would be so attached to his Bella and Village-life,
like Ser Jory was towards his wife/child and former life. Ser Jory would have maybe survived the Ritual, but that wouldnt make him someone, who could stand the Perils of Wardenship.
Just think about the Will and Mental Strength you need to survive every single night you sleep and dream of the Blight, Archdemon and other Horrors out of the Fade.

#24
Spitz6860

Spitz6860
  • Members
  • 573 messages
so what exactly is tainted? does that include infection through physical contact, or just drinking?

#25
nos_astra

nos_astra
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages
Relating to what Xandurpein remembered and what is said at Ostagar touching the blood is bad enough.