55 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Interestingly enough, if you dig in the core files, you'll find some cut items..like LYRIUM ADDICTION CURE..

[Herr Uhl]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Interestingly enough, if you dig in the core files, you'll find some cut items..like LYRIUM ADDICTION CURE..

Yup, that was cut due to being bad for gameplay reasons. You shouldn't be able to chug potions like you can.

[ZuuZuu]

One question that I was pondering over is if a mage with knowledge of the ritual can perform it, wouldn't that mean Morrigan could perform the ritual on some random (who may or may not survive the Joining) and use him to perform her Dark Ritual? Unless there is some prerequisite for a mage before they were able to setup the Joining? Obviously it didn't happen in the game because your PC dies if the Dark Ritual is refused. Also, this method or trial and error till she found someone able to survive the Joining could take forever but it is a interesting point IMO anyway!

[MatronAdena]

I think it takes more than one mage to pull it off .

[Jayphil]

AND it takes a lot of lyrium.....more than what one mage can take.

[Chas1024]

It would be really cool if it did work that way so Dog does become a Grey Warden.

[Basher of Glory]

I see it this way:

As we all know, in medieval Europe the pestilence spreaded quite often. Many people died, but some few were not harmed at all.

These exceptions we can find among every pandemia, even the worst.



Joseph is not just some "hillbilly freak" as someone else wrote, he was for a long time a soldier and now he roams the woods, thus he lives a life keeping him well and fit.



I see your points, but could we agree, that there MUST be a small chance to be immune by nature or to become (accidentially) immune by doing crazy stuff like Joseph did?



About the (illegal) ritual and the for that reason needed mages:

Aren't there plenty of mages, who left the circle?



Lyrium is the least problem. Go to Orzamar slum and talk to the guy!



BTW, the Joseph in my example would not be aware about his potential powers, should he be immune to the taint / blight / ghoul. He knows about the Grey Wardens as much as most people know.

His encounter with the darkspawn squad and his victory made him a local hero, but I don't think he would consider himself as something exceptional now. The impulse must come form outside now, be it by Duncan (or another Warden) or someone else who knows about the Warden's lore.

[Herr Uhl]

Baher of Glory wrote...
Lyrium is the least problem. Go to Orzamar slum and talk to the guy!

...No.

You wouldn't get into Orzammar in the first place.

[Lupus Canivus]

I think Sarevok Anchev hit the nail spot-on! Its not only a question of blood and magic but of mental strength and/or the fact that you need a certain unattachment to a "normal" life. None of the PC's really have a "normal" life - they are all pulled out of normality so to speak. Even Alister has none of your normal family/life attachments. Neither does Duncan I think, thats why he is quite glad to have Daveth (reminds him of himself perhaps).

[TeleProd]

It seems that not many are even aware of the joining ritual so what are the chances of a common mage knowing the ritual? The Grey Wardens are very secretive and the preparation of the blood is probably one of the most well-guarded of their secrets. Morrigan could know how to do it, but I don't know.

[robertthebard]

Expecting to find some random mage that knows how the Joining is performed is asking quite a bit. PC is a random mage, within the Circle; how much do you know of the Joining before Ostagar?



Easy to get lyrium is a laugh. If it were easy to get lyrium, a substance that is controlled by the Chantry on the surface, then everybody would have armies of Templars. After all, if we presume everyone knows about the Joining, why wouldn't they know how to make a Templar? Not to mention any of the Templars that might decide to defect. You have undergone the Joining, but as pointed out, you don't know what goes into preparing the blood. So it's a shot in the dark, and is likely to miss, and create Ruck.

[SarEnyaDor]

Well, if he happened to have a drop of archdemon blood, some mages on hand, and some lyrium to mix with the darkspawn blood he was about to chug out of no where because of a rumor he heard .... But I think Bella should find someone else, his mind is obviously mush.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Baher of Glory wrote...

I see it this way:
As we all know, in medieval Europe the pestilence spreaded quite often. Many people died, but some few were not harmed at all.
These exceptions we can find among every pandemia, even the worst.

Joseph is not just some "hillbilly freak" as someone else wrote, he was for a long time a soldier and now he roams the woods, thus he lives a life keeping him well and fit.

I see your points, but could we agree, that there MUST be a small chance to be immune by nature or to become (accidentially) immune by doing crazy stuff like Joseph did?

About the (illegal) ritual and the for that reason needed mages:
Aren't there plenty of mages, who left the circle?

Lyrium is the least problem. Go to Orzamar slum and talk to the guy!

BTW, the Joseph in my example would not be aware about his potential powers, should he be immune to the taint / blight / ghoul. He knows about the Grey Wardens as much as most people know.
His encounter with the darkspawn squad and his victory made him a local hero, but I don't think he would consider himself as something exceptional now. The impulse must come form outside now, be it by Duncan (or another Warden) or someone else who knows about the Warden's lore.

Maybe there are Resistances against common diseases/viruses/infections etc. But no immunities.
Thus: Drinking a whole pot of Darkspawn blood would kill you(Grey Wardens take only a sip btw.)

Only for info: When a human drinks only 1litre of -human- blood, he will vomit.

All that theatrical Hollywood-style of "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE" is no good for such ideas.
Take a example: In the Forgotten Realms of D&D there was the legendary story of a Drow, who became a hunted, and started a new life at the Ground as a Ranger; he is fighting with 2 Scimitars, has a animal companion and a Chaotic Good Alignment.
This was a very special person with a individual story and background, but became a cliche of a dual-wielding Ranger and Chaotic Good Dark-Elves.
Soooo many Gamers wanted to play a chaotic good Drow, who fights against the Underdark-establisment and blabla.

So the excption of 1 individual became a common standard. But ofc. this couldnt be.

Lets take a good exampe for the opposite: The Dalish-Origin! You are a capable Hunter and willstrong.
You become intoxicated by a magical mirror of Tevinter-Imperium times and barely survived (at first) 2 days of Taintedness, because someone found you and brought you to a capable Healer; and still you would have not survived more then weeks without the Grey Warden ritual.

Btw.: The Grey Wardens EVEN ARE NOT immune! They will succumb to the Taint in a certain age and could become even a special kind of Darkspawn (see: "The Calling").

[Dragoon001]

David Gaider wrote...

Baher of Glory wrote...
Question:
Is Joseph now effectively compareable to a Grey Warden, although he has no clue about the ritual and the order?

The flaw in your story is that simply drinking darkspawn blood does not make one a Grey Warden. Most likely Joseph would come down with the blight and become a ghoul in short order. The villagers would have found him delerious and sick with fever, and if he survived he would have disappeared one night and never been seen again.

Becoming a Grey Warden requires a dose of the darkspawn corruption in sufficient potency that it immediately affects someone, rather than slowly enough to sicken them. Archdemon blood can be used (though is understandably much rarer), but any darkspawn blood can be magically treated to make it work. Your rank-and-file darkspawn simply doesn't have enough of the corruption within him to do the trick... though who knows? If he drank enough, maybe it might work. I don't doubt a story of an "accidental" Grey Warden could be justified, although it would take some doing.

Somehow I thought that the very first Gray Warden became that way by accident. Exposed to a considerable amount of Darkspwn blood but didn't turned, instead became immune. Isn't it how things are usually discovered in life? By accident.

Modifié par Dragoon001, 09 janvier 2010 - 05:36 .

[Dahelia]

What the OP posted makes no sense...also...what David Gaider said is right...if anyone played the Dalish Elf Origins they would know what becoming infected with the taint does to people...Your Dalish elf nearly died from what happened because of the darkspawn taint, she was forced to become a Grey Warden or die...maybe becoming a Broodmother or a Ghoul..And what happened to the companion? He became a Ghoul. Also, no matter what the taint will always kill you in the end, Grey Warden or not.

[David Gaider]

Baher of Glory wrote...

An entire canteen or - perhaps more medieval - an entire pumpkin calabash is certainly A LOT, right?

No. We're talking about the concentration of the taint, and in a short span of time, and not just the quantity of blood. The reason Archdemon blood is used is because it's the easiest way to get the concentration required, but it's not the *only* way. Regardless, just drinking the blood of a normal, run-of-the-mill darkspawn isn't usually going to cut it -- that's why magical means are usually required.

Note that simply recovering from the taint (which is possible -- Dog did it, after all -- though it's rare) is not enough. You must have both the quick concentration of the taint AND the recovery. I use the word "recovery" loosely, however. As the poster above me mentions, even Grey Wardens don't become immune to the taint. They still suffer from it in the long run.

Modifié par David Gaider, 09 janvier 2010 - 05:56 .

[Ulicus]

Am I right in thinking that Dog is in more-or-less the same position as Hafter from The Calling?

[David Gaider]

Ulicus wrote...
Am I right in thinking that Dog is in more-or-less the same position as Hafter from The Calling?

Probably. Though whether Dog acquired the same resistance to the taint as Hafter is never proven, as we got rid of the "blight infection" mechanic.

[Sarevok Anchev]

David Gaider wrote...

Ulicus wrote...
Am I right in thinking that Dog is in more-or-less the same position as Hafter from The Calling?

Probably. Though whether Dog acquired the same resistance to the taint as Hafter is never proven, as we got rid of the "blight infection" mechanic.

As i remember the Warden whos Hafters Master told the Female Mage GW that Hafter IS a Grey Warden himself!
Not just a random survivor like dog (and Dog only survives, when you find this rare flower in the Wilds)

[David Gaider]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...
As i remember the Warden whos Hafters Master told the Female Mage GW that Hafter IS a Grey Warden himself!
Not just a random survivor like dog (and Dog only survives, when you find this rare flower in the Wilds)

I don't think he meant that literally. Hafter wasn't a member of the order, after all.

[Basher of Glory]

In my games with Dalish I always thought that the PC was tainted because (s)he was too close when the guy touched the mirror. If this is the case, then this mirror must be some kind of overdosing device, far stronger than the occasional blooddrop of a darkspawn during a fight.

I see DG's point about the quantity amd I see also the need to have darkspawn blood processed by cunning mages to be suitable for the Warden's initiation.
Thus, I agree that it is certainly not common to become unknowingly a Warden.

But we talk about centuries of war against the blight. Some posters thought about the origins of the Wardens and came to the conclusion, that it must have started *by accident*.

I do not insist on "my" Joseph to be a "chosen one". I just engaged in armchair reasoning, if the "first" Warden was a unique exception or if this could have happened several times in the course of the centuries.

Let's say, some of Joseph ancestors have fought against darkspawn. Some died, others became tainted, but a few survived and passed on their genes to future generations.

Now, could it not be *possible*, that a few humans / elves / dwarves ....well... "mutate" over time and develop stronger body's defences against the taint?

I know nothing about the first Warden, but certainly this guy must have had cunning people around him, who researched and found out about the ways to create the "time buying" ritual.

Others were not so lucky and didn't even realize their potential. Why should this not be possible? For me it sounds plausible.

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 09 janvier 2010 - 09:20 .

[El-Destructo]

David Gaider wrote...
Archdemon blood can be used (though is understandably much rarer), but any darkspawn blood can be magically treated to make it work.

Is there any advantage to using archdemon blood over using the blood of any random minions? This point left me rather confused because I know Riordan mentioned the archdemon blood that was stolen from the grey warden stores and that it was important for the joining, but I also remember collecting blood from genlocks and hurlocks as a recruit. I assumed that the archdemon blood was a necessity for the magical ritual, even if just in trace amounts, with the other darkspawn blood as a base.

[SusanStoHelit]

My understanding of the mirror is that it is a portal. Tamlen saw something in it - I would guess it was the Deep Roads, and darkspawn - and when he touched it this opened the portal and the darkspawn were able to come through. That's what I understood of it anyway. Until Tamlen touched the mirror there were no darkspawn in the ruins - only undead. You wake up tainted (later find that Tamlen is a ghoul) and there are darkspawn in the ruins now.



So it's not that the mirror itself gives you the taint - the darkspawn did.

[SusanStoHelit]

El-Destructo wrote...

Is there any advantage to using archdemon blood over using the blood of any random minions? This point left me rather confused because I know Riordan mentioned the archdemon blood that was stolen from the grey warden stores and that it was important for the joining, but I also remember collecting blood from genlocks and hurlocks as a recruit. I assumed that the archdemon blood was a necessity for the magical ritual, even if just in trace amounts, with the other darkspawn blood as a base.

If you read further up the thread you would know that David said it is concentrated enough. Ordinary darkspawn blood isn't. You need the regular blood, some super concentrated blood (archdemon is 'easiest') and lyrium/magic for it to work. Concentration + speed is key.

[Sarevok Anchev]

@Baher of Glory



i think that would be possible, of course!

But this suggestions base on the factor, if the Blighttaint is a "natural" diesease.

But i see it more as a Magical Curse/Disease.

It was a Curse for the Tevinter Mages at least , obtained by desecrating the golden city (maybe even cursed by the Maker itself`?)



So... we still dont know how it got spread afterwards.

But i think (thinking about some shards of knowledge given in the books,game and the new character infos for Add-On) there are different kinds/states of this Curse, which goes even down to the simple effect of a Poison: decay of Mind/Nervous System and dieing of the body.



Still the magical component would be inherent, so even by getting resistance/immunity through Evolution(Blightanimals for instance) it would/should not give Resistance against the magical aspects of the Taint.



I think thats the reason why many People die in the Joining. Its not the question of finding people with physical resistance, but with Mental Stability/Strength.

Most seem to die, because they cant stand the Mental connection with the Darkspawn.

Thats at least my suggestion ^^