223 réponses à ce sujet

[TurianRebel212]

It's amazing that people don't get it. You don't need to change the endings for IT to be true. The endings are finished. They are over. I'll try to be quick. Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option. When you pick destroy you break the indoctrination attempt AND destroy the reapers. AND Shep lives.

From Hudson- " We won't have an A, B, C ending, We wouldn't do that"

He didn't lie. There's only one choice. and one ending. That's why destroy is the only ending where shep doesn't Die. And the Reapers do. Its. Very. Simple.

But believe what you will. Like jstme said, it's all viable. So just go with the flow.

Almost a year later and I still can't believe lots of people are talking about the endings. Wow.

Wow.

[Ageless Face]

CynicalShep wrote...
Did you write this?

Of course I did! And it took me a whole ten minutes. 

[CynicalShep]

CoolioThane wrote...

There's more headcanon in not-believing the IT...

And there is way more headcanon in IT than if I told you Shepard is still delirious and imagines this before death after being spaced in the ME2 Prologue

[jstme]

dorktainian wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

But again, IT isn't about headcanon.  It's about looking at what heppens in the games themselves.  It is a logical conclusion to certain things that happen.

Furthermore, IT is not an ending.  It's an advertisement for "ME4: No Really, This Time We'll Really End It, We Promise".

typical literalist coment.

IT isn't about the ending....it's about the context of Shepards reality within ME3.    

Simple question - since it is all a context of Shepard's reality do you really not want to know what really happens to your Shepard for real in ME reality context after the unreal choice is made?
Because even if IT is true - you do not know anything and ME3 is end of Shepard's story.  

[X086573]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It's amazing that people don't get it. You don't need to change the endings for IT to be true. The endings are finished. They are over. I'll try to be quick. Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option. When you pick destroy you break the indoctrination attempt AND destroy the reapers. AND Shep lives.

From Hudson- " We won't have an A, B, C ending, We wouldn't do that"

He didn't lie. There's only one choice. and one ending. That's why destroy is the only ending where shep doesn't Die. And the Reapers do. Its. Very. Simple.

But believe what you will. Like jstme said, it's all viable. So just go with the flow.

Almost a year later and I still can't believe lots of people are talking about the endings. Wow.

Wow.

So instead there's only an A ending, and the rest are just fodder?  And how, by fighting indoctrination, does Shepard manage to destory every reaper?

Modifié par X086573, 29 janvier 2013 - 12:47 .

[CoolioThane]

CynicalShep wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

There's more headcanon in not-believing the IT...

And there is way more headcanon in IT than if I told you Shepard is still delirious and imagines this before death after being spaced in the ME2 Prologue

lol, keep telling yourself that mate

[AxStapleton]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It's amazing that people don't get it. You don't need to change the endings for IT to be true. The endings are finished. They are over. I'll try to be quick. Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option. When you pick destroy you break the indoctrination attempt AND destroy the reapers. AND Shep lives.

From Hudson- " We won't have an A, B, C ending, We wouldn't do that"

He didn't lie. There's only one choice. and one ending. That's why destroy is the only ending where shep doesn't Die. And the Reapers do. Its. Very. Simple.

But believe what you will. Like jstme said, it's all viable. So just go with the flow.

Almost a year later and I still can't believe lots of people are talking about the endings. Wow.

Wow.

Well in the end, Bioware got their wish... sort of.

[KingZayd]

jstme wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

But again, IT isn't about headcanon.  It's about looking at what heppens in the games themselves.  It is a logical conclusion to certain things that happen.

Furthermore, IT is not an ending.  It's an advertisement for "ME4: No Really, This Time We'll Really End It, We Promise".

typical literalist coment.

IT isn't about the ending....it's about the context of Shepards reality within ME3.    

Simple question - since it is all a context of Shepard's reality do you really not want to know what really happens to your Shepard for real in ME reality context after the unreal choice is made?
Because even if IT is true - you do not know anything and ME3 is end of Shepard's story.  

Maybe Shepard's story has ended because he's too far indoctrinated. He is no longer truly himself.

[CoolioThane]

X086573 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It's amazing that people don't get it. You don't need to change the endings for IT to be true. The endings are finished. They are over. I'll try to be quick. Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option. When you pick destroy you break the indoctrination attempt AND destroy the reapers. AND Shep lives.

From Hudson- " We won't have an A, B, C ending, We wouldn't do that"

He didn't lie. There's only one choice. and one ending. That's why destroy is the only ending where shep doesn't Die. And the Reapers do. Its. Very. Simple.

But believe what you will. Like jstme said, it's all viable. So just go with the flow.

Almost a year later and I still can't believe lots of people are talking about the endings. Wow.

Wow.

So instead there's only an A ending, and the rest are just fodder?  And how, by fighting indoctrination, does Shepard manage to destory every reaper?

Think of a way. 

That's better than deus ex machina crucible

[KingZayd]

X086573 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It's amazing that people don't get it. You don't need to change the endings for IT to be true. The endings are finished. They are over. I'll try to be quick. Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option. When you pick destroy you break the indoctrination attempt AND destroy the reapers. AND Shep lives.

From Hudson- " We won't have an A, B, C ending, We wouldn't do that"

He didn't lie. There's only one choice. and one ending. That's why destroy is the only ending where shep doesn't Die. And the Reapers do. Its. Very. Simple.

But believe what you will. Like jstme said, it's all viable. So just go with the flow.

Almost a year later and I still can't believe lots of people are talking about the endings. Wow.

Wow.

So instead there's only an A ending, and the rest are just fodder?  And how, by fighting indoctrination, does Shepard manage to destory every reaper?

He doesn't.

[jstme]

KingZayd wrote...

jstme wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

But again, IT isn't about headcanon.  It's about looking at what heppens in the games themselves.  It is a logical conclusion to certain things that happen.

Furthermore, IT is not an ending.  It's an advertisement for "ME4: No Really, This Time We'll Really End It, We Promise".

typical literalist coment.

IT isn't about the ending....it's about the context of Shepards reality within ME3.    

Simple question - since it is all a context of Shepard's reality do you really not want to know what really happens to your Shepard for real in ME reality context after the unreal choice is made?
Because even if IT is true - you do not know anything and ME3 is end of Shepard's story.  

Maybe Shepard's story has ended because he's too far indoctrinated. He is no longer truly himself.

Even if s/he chooses destroy? Then in context of Shepard's reality there is only defeat to reapers. 
Edit:
Ending trilogy with defeat is even worse then what is there now.

Modifié par jstme, 29 janvier 2013 - 12:52 .

[TurianRebel212]

AxStapleton wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It's amazing that people don't get it. You don't need to change the endings for IT to be true. The endings are finished. They are over. I'll try to be quick. Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option. When you pick destroy you break the indoctrination attempt AND destroy the reapers. AND Shep lives.

From Hudson- " We won't have an A, B, C ending, We wouldn't do that"

He didn't lie. There's only one choice. and one ending. That's why destroy is the only ending where shep doesn't Die. And the Reapers do. Its. Very. Simple.

But believe what you will. Like jstme said, it's all viable. So just go with the flow.

Almost a year later and I still can't believe lots of people are talking about the endings. Wow.

Wow.

Well in the end, Bioware got their wish... sort of.

MONEY!!!! ;);)

Lots and lots of money. 

[Shaani]

dorktainian wrote...


IT isn't about the ending....it's about the context of Shepards reality within ME3.   

Yeah, and I, like 90% of the audience, don't especially care about that.  Where's the ending to the story I just spent 80 hours playing?

I've seen the IT videos.  They didn't impress me.  I fail to see how dropping the entire plot and going all meta (instead of finishing the story) is novel, clever, or in this case, well-executed.  In fact, a lot of it struck me as rather illiterate when it comes to constructing a decent story.

To be blunt, the series isn't clever enough to pull this off.  This isn't Terry Graham's Brazil or Grant Morrison's Animal Man.  It's a story about space marines shooting monsters in the face.  Even if IT is somehow right, it doesn't "fix" the ending by virtue of it's supposed "cleverness".  It actually makes it a far worse failure by not being an ending at all.

[Restrider]

jstme wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jstme wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

But again, IT isn't about headcanon.  It's about looking at what heppens in the games themselves.  It is a logical conclusion to certain things that happen.

Furthermore, IT is not an ending.  It's an advertisement for "ME4: No Really, This Time We'll Really End It, We Promise".

typical literalist coment.

IT isn't about the ending....it's about the context of Shepards reality within ME3.    

Simple question - since it is all a context of Shepard's reality do you really not want to know what really happens to your Shepard for real in ME reality context after the unreal choice is made?
Because even if IT is true - you do not know anything and ME3 is end of Shepard's story.  

Maybe Shepard's story has ended because he's too far indoctrinated. He is no longer truly himself.

Even if s/he chooses destroy? Then in context of Shepard's reality there is only defeat to reapers. 
Edit:
Ending trilogy with defeat is even worse then what is there now.

Well, the cycles cannot be broken. It's  a rather pessimistic interpretation in the light of IT. Keep in mind that there are several speculative sub-sections about what happens next.

[X086573]

going to sleep, but i'll bet money there'll be a new IT thread tomorrow. (don't take that the wrong way, no offense was intended)

bye.

[CynicalShep]

CoolioThane wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

There's more headcanon in not-believing the IT...

And there is way more headcanon in IT than if I told you Shepard is still delirious and imagines this before death after being spaced in the ME2 Prologue

lol, keep telling yourself that mate

But it is true. Think about it - less omissions, less plotholes, less WTF moments, less inconsistencies. 
Or better yet, after the attack on Eden Prime. Chakwas said that he/she was dreaming and asked him what it was. He saw the events of all 3 games right there and then 

See, I can play this game, too. 

HagarIshay wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
Did you write this?[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Of course I did! And it took me a whole ten minutes. 

Thoughtful of you. I'm too lazy to try to write something similar. 
Besides, it wouldn't be as awesome so why bother? and I'm falling asleep

Modifié par CynicalShep, 29 janvier 2013 - 12:56 .

[KingZayd]

jstme wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jstme wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

But again, IT isn't about headcanon.  It's about looking at what heppens in the games themselves.  It is a logical conclusion to certain things that happen.

Furthermore, IT is not an ending.  It's an advertisement for "ME4: No Really, This Time We'll Really End It, We Promise".

typical literalist coment.

IT isn't about the ending....it's about the context of Shepards reality within ME3.    

Simple question - since it is all a context of Shepard's reality do you really not want to know what really happens to your Shepard for real in ME reality context after the unreal choice is made?
Because even if IT is true - you do not know anything and ME3 is end of Shepard's story.  

Maybe Shepard's story has ended because he's too far indoctrinated. He is no longer truly himself.

Even if s/he chooses destroy? Then in context of Shepard's reality there is only defeat to reapers. 
Edit:
Ending trilogy with defeat is even worse then what is there now.

Firstly, even ending with defeat would be better than what we have now, because at least that makes sense.

Secondly, Shepard is not the only competent person in the galaxy. Just because Shepard's been taken down by Harbinger, doesn't mean everything is over. 

The choice could affect how much of an obstacle indoctrinated Shepard becomes to those who have to finish the mission.

Modifié par KingZayd, 29 janvier 2013 - 01:01 .

[Shaani]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option.

It's all in Shepard's head.  Except when it isn't.

[TurianRebel212]

Shaani wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Destroy does not only placate to IT and destroy is NOT only symbolic. Destroy is actually an option.

It's all in Shepard's head.  Except when it isn't.

Ouch. Major Burn. You own this forum. OWN IT. PWNAGE.    :P:P

[AlexMBrennan]

you don't understand what people are talking about when saying that an indoctrination attemot could have been taking place at the end of the game.

You are moving the goalposts: I never claimed that "an indoctrination attempt" could not have taken place. I never said that IT is false (which I cannot since IT is, in it's general form, non-falsifiable).
What I did say is that there is no evidence for IT being true. Earlier, I explained what evidence means - an observation consistent with IT only (I.e. inconsistent with the null hypothesis of "bad writing").

It's basic hypothesis testing: An observation consistent with both the experimental hypothesis and the null hypothesis does not allow you to conclude that the experimental hypothesis is correct; you need an observation inconsistent with the null hypothesis to reject it and conclude that the experimental hypothesis is true.

You do not have any observations inconsistent with the null hypothesis; concluding that IT is true would be like concluding that a coin is rigged after getting tails on 50 out of 100 tosses (I.e. exactly what you would expect from a fair coin)

And I did actually watch the documentary you alluded to, and I am not impressed: for example, it's easier to render static elements than characters so video games routinely have a maximum render distance; as a result, his observation that Anderson is not visible from the start of the Citadel level despite having clear line of sight is perfectly consistent with developers optimising the game for performance.

Or how about the beam run? From Harbinger not killing Shepard and the Normandy, he concludes that Harbinger is intentionally trying to keep Shepard alive. Ignoring the fact that the scene was only added to fix squadmates teleporting to the Normandy in the original version (I.e. it's perfectly consistent with bad writing), it's a complete non-sequitur to conclude that Shepard is or will be indoctrinated - Harbinger could be doing this for any number of reasons.

[Ageless Face]

CoolioThane wrote...
Think of a way. 

That's better than deus ex machina crucible

No it's not! I like Deus ex machina Crucible if it has control ending... It's so cool and blue... 

Oh and hey Coolio! Long time no see.

Thoughtful of you. I'm too lazy to try to write something similar. 
Besides, it wouldn't be as awesome so why bother? and I'm falling asleep

Then I suggest you'll go to sleep. Posting tired will make you write stupid things you'll regret.

Trust me, I've been there.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 29 janvier 2013 - 01:06 .

[Davik Kang]

X086573 wrote...
why would you take my comment directed towards you if you don't  subscribe to the theory?  i honestly hadn't targeted any specific person w/ my comment, so you taking it as a remark towards you specifically was unneccesary.

bullet points themselves can make it alot easier to process the argument i'm proposing, and spaces out each point thoroughly, giving the mind time to digest it.  I only use them because it helps me voice my opinion more clearly, not because I feel the recipients are too "feeble-minded" to understand paragraphs.

and i use the cloud shape analogy only as a vessel to forward the notion that the belief in the theory solely relies on perception, not hard facts, and also I have never questioned anyones intelligence or stated that I was more smarter-er.

and i don't get how someone can get so defensive towards me for simply voicing my opinion.

and if it matters, i dropped outta high school, so i'm one of the least intelligent people you could care to talk to, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valiable than yours. and please stop thinking that i think i'm above anyone for belieiving in IT, i'm fine w/ them believing it, just wished they wouldn't declare it as "in the game", when it is simply a matter of perspective.

Ok well I took your comment as being direected at me because you were replying to something I said, so it seemed reasonable.

About bullet points, I don't mean bullet points themselves are a bad idea, far from it.  What I mean is that the points you made there seemed to be criticising IT supporters for not understanding the difference between speculation and fact.  But of course they understand it.  Continually painting a picture of IT supporters as stupid, zealot-like people really doesn't help anyone.

Last thing, why can't they claim it's in the game?  They think it is, you don't.  Both are a matter of opinion.  To convince you otherwise, it's naturally fair that an IT supporter would have the burden of proof on them.  But they accept that, hence a thread that went on for 11 months disucssing it.

Dropping out of school doesn't automatically make you unintelligent either.  This isn't a competition about intellectual elitism.  But many players do genuinely think an indoctrination attempt is happening at the end, not because they want to, but because it really does seem to be the case given certain things.  There is no proof that it's definitely happening, but there's enough evidence to suggest it might be happening.  The idea that it never even occurred to Bioware is pretty silly.  I'm not claiming that IT or any variation is definitely happening at the end, but it is 100% clear that Bioware intended this speculation.

Shaani wrote...
But it's also inconsequental if you stop and think about it for five seconds.

"Looking at what happenes in the games themselves", one could come to a similar conclusion that Shepard really does die at the beginning of ME2, and everything that happens after the Normandy blows up is a dying dream.  You could point to the theming (Where does Shepard go after dying?  "Afterlife!") and you can point to every inconsistancy that happens after that point, and it would have the exact same "proof" as IT.

Furthermore, IT is not an ending.  It's an advertisement for "ME4: No Really, This Time We'll Really End It, We Promise".

Yeah, I'm fairly certain most people who've been visiting this site for the last however many months have "stopped and thought about it for 5 seconds."

You seem to be under the impression that IT is some wildly speculative idea based on the fact that Shepard falls unconscious a few times at the end.  This is simply not the case.  It is based on so many things that attempting to list them all would be futile.  Some examples include images and events recurring in the final mission from Shepard's memory; the huge exposition with TIM about Reaper Indoctrination in the very last scene before the decision chamber; the narrative disonnance of that final scene when compared to the rest of the trilogy; the repeated use of techniques like the fade-to-white used in the dream sequences; the change in Shepard's personality and mental resolve from Cronos right through to the very end...

It would also be worth considering that many players including myself thought that the ending was an indoctrination attempt without ever having heard of IT.  You have to wonder how that's possible if it is not alluded to in the game itself.

[CoolioThane]

CynicalShep wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

There's more headcanon in not-believing the IT...

And there is way more headcanon in IT than if I told you Shepard is still delirious and imagines this before death after being spaced in the ME2 Prologue

lol, keep telling yourself that mate

But it is true. Think about it - less omissions, less plotholes, less WTF moments, less inconsistencies. 
Or better yet, after the attack on Eden Prime. Chakwas said that he/she was dreaming and asked him what it was. He saw the events of all 3 games right there and then 

See, I can play this game, too. 

You can believe what you want mate, as can I.

Yeah...aren't ITers just idiotic cultists? gfy lol 

[CoolioThane]

HagarIshay wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...
Think of a way. 

That's better than deus ex machina crucible

No it's not! I like Deus ex machina Crucible if it has control ending... It's so cool and blue... 

Oh and hey Coolio! Long time no see.

Hey Hagar, you alright?

[TurianRebel212]

CoolioThane wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

There's more headcanon in not-believing the IT...

And there is way more headcanon in IT than if I told you Shepard is still delirious and imagines this before death after being spaced in the ME2 Prologue

lol, keep telling yourself that mate

But it is true. Think about it - less omissions, less plotholes, less WTF moments, less inconsistencies. 
Or better yet, after the attack on Eden Prime. Chakwas said that he/she was dreaming and asked him what it was. He saw the events of all 3 games right there and then 

See, I can play this game, too. 

You can believe what you want mate, as can I.

Yeah...aren't ITers just idiotic cultists? gfy lol 

Yeah, everyone who looks at things from a different perspective is just crazy, idiotic and looney. Watch out they'll round all of us crazies up and put us somewhere off grid.

:bandit: