220 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Fact is, some variance on the typical romance path in Bioware games would be welcomed(that is until people try the new paths and decide then whether they approve or not).

DA2 tried some differences. One thing I liked was that the paramour achievement didn't pop when you had sex with that character- it popped at the culmination of the romance path which was afterwards.

I'd like that to continue going forward.

[Doodleydowop]

This already exists. Dragon Age: Origins in the dalish camp where you can convince one of the elven lovers to cheat on the other with your character.

Tell me, did that add something deep and immersive to your roleplaying?
(That question sounds sarcastic but I seriously want to know. To see if thats what everyone's asking for/rebelling against.)

[XX-Pyro]

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

So bioware puts more work into game content, their consumers enjoy, which could possibly increase sales... nope not seeing the problem here.

I really hope this is obvious to everyone who sees this. If it isn't, I'll spell it out:

You're advocating them spending an abnormal amount of time and money on not just side content, but highly specific side content.

I disagree with its worth.

I disagree with your disagreeance. Disapprove of romance content if you like, but there is no denying the fact that it  is one of biowares hallmark cash cows, as jimmy points out ere.

Romances are a nice addition to Bioware games. This doesn't make them any better, just different (which can be read as better sure, or as worse.) To say that romances are making the money in Bioware games is a silly notion that doesn't support your argument.

[LPPrince]

Doodleydowop wrote...

This already exists. Dragon Age: Origins in the dalish camp where you can convince one of the elven lovers to cheat on the other with your character.

Tell me, did that add something deep and immersive to your roleplaying?
(That question sounds sarcastic but I seriously want to know. To see if thats what everyone's asking for/rebelling against.)

Eh, not quite. That was a one off thing which is very much related, but I believe what Mr. Gaider meant is a full blown romance path involving being with someone behind someone else's back.

[The Elder King]

Doodleydowop wrote...

This already exists. Dragon Age: Origins in the dalish camp where you can convince one of the elven lovers to cheat on the other with your character.

Tell me, did that add something deep and immersive to your roleplaying?
(That question sounds sarcastic but I seriously want to know. To see if thats what everyone's asking for/rebelling against.)

While I don't care either way if a romance of the type described by the OP would be present, they're asking for something different. They want a full romance path with one of the LI that is in a relationship with someone else, not just casual sex with a woman/man who are in a relationship
If I'd rate the romance content in DAO by the casual sex scenes (or some other flirting moment) in the game, the vote would be next to zero.

[Yumichika]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

So bioware puts more work into game content, their consumers enjoy, which could possibly increase sales... nope not seeing the problem here.

I really hope this is obvious to everyone who sees this. If it isn't, I'll spell it out:

You're advocating them spending an abnormal amount of time and money on not just side content, but highly specific side content.

I disagree with its worth.

I disagree with your disagreeance. Disapprove of romance content if you like, but there is no denying the fact that it  is one of biowares hallmark cash cows, as jimmy points out ere.

Romances are a nice addition to Bioware games. This doesn't make them any better, just different (which can be read as better sure, or as worse.) To say that romances are making the money in Bioware games is a silly notion that doesn't support your argument.

If it was not the Romance option i would never discover BIOWARE games. Well maybe Mass Effect as it's in the future talking about saving not just the world but the universe.

[Emzamination]

Doodleydowop wrote...

This already exists. Dragon Age: Origins in the dalish camp where you can convince one of the elven lovers to cheat on the other with your character.

Tell me, did that add something deep and immersive to your roleplaying?
(That question sounds sarcastic but I seriously want to know. To see if thats what everyone's asking for/rebelling against.)

You're talking about camen and gheyna? Hmph , I'd forgotten about that, it did happen. But then again, that was just a 2 minute roll in the hay, nothing more.

[LPPrince]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Romances are a nice addition to Bioware games. This doesn't make them any better, just different (which can be read as better sure, or as worse.) To say that romances are making the money in Bioware games is a silly notion that doesn't support your argument.

I don't think Emzey's saying romances are the sole reason people buy Bioware games, or that they're a colossal reason for the sales of them, but I think its safe to say that romances are appetizing to quite a few people who purchase them.

Would omitting them entirely cause sales to drop? Maybe, maybe not. I'd like to think not. I'd get a Bioware game with no romances.

Would working a little more on them, whether to add variance, depth, etc etc to them take away from the rest of the game in a noticeable way? Maybe, maybe not. I'd like to think not. I imagine if they made the choice to work more on romances they'd make the choice to work more on other parts of the game prior to that.

Personally, I think Bioware's romances are like the seasoning on a steak- you buy the steak for the meat, but the seasoning makes it taste a little better. Maybe the seasoning's not your thing and you'd rather it go without- that's a perfectly valid choice.

And goddamn it man am I hungry.

[Emzamination]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

So bioware puts more work into game content, their consumers enjoy, which could possibly increase sales... nope not seeing the problem here.

I really hope this is obvious to everyone who sees this. If it isn't, I'll spell it out:

You're advocating them spending an abnormal amount of time and money on not just side content, but highly specific side content.

I disagree with its worth.

I disagree with your disagreeance. Disapprove of romance content if you like, but there is no denying the fact that it  is one of biowares hallmark cash cows, as jimmy points out ere.

Romances are a nice addition to Bioware games. This doesn't make them any better, just different (which can be read as better sure, or as worse.) To say that romances are making the money in Bioware games is a silly notion that doesn't support your argument.

You must be unaware of all the twitter demands for romance dlc, all the threads pleading for more mature romance scenes and oh yeah, that sub forum that was shut down because of the intense romance demand. lol I'd say my argument is supported just fine. Even gaider states in his blog that people sometimes forget romance isn't the entire game

[Emzamination]

LPPrince wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Romances are a nice addition to Bioware games. This doesn't make them any better, just different (which can be read as better sure, or as worse.) To say that romances are making the money in Bioware games is a silly notion that doesn't support your argument.

I don't think Emzey's saying romances are the sole reason people buy Bioware games, or that they're a colossal reason for the sales of them, but I think its safe to say that romances are appetizing to quite a few people who purchase them.

Would omitting them entirely cause sales to drop? Maybe, maybe not. I'd like to think not. I'd get a Bioware game with no romances.

Would working a little more on them, whether to add variance, depth, etc etc to them take away from the rest of the game in a noticeable way? Maybe, maybe not. I'd like to think not. I imagine if they made the choice to work more on romances they'd make the choice to work more on other parts of the game prior to that.

Personally, I think Bioware's romances are like the seasoning on a steak- you buy the steak for the meat, but the seasoning makes it taste a little better. Maybe the seasoning's not your thing and you'd rather it go without- that's a perfectly valid choice.

And goddamn it man am I hungry.

^ This

[LPPrince]

Emzamination wrote...
Even gaider states in his blog that people sometimes forget romance isn't the entire game

Thats not because the romances are some superb excellent segment to the game however.

That's because there's a lot of people who take the romances in Bioware games far too seriously/focus on them at the expense of everything else.

Bioware devs aren't like that though. They know how much each segment of their work is worth.

[Doodleydowop]

LPPrince wrote...

Doodleydowop wrote...

This already exists. Dragon Age: Origins in the dalish camp where you can convince one of the elven lovers to cheat on the other with your character.

Tell me, did that add something deep and immersive to your roleplaying?
(That question sounds sarcastic but I seriously want to know. To see if thats what everyone's asking for/rebelling against.)

Eh, not quite. That was a one off thing which is very much related, but I believe what Mr. Gaider meant is a full blown romance path involving being with someone behind someone else's back.

So y'all are looking for the secret, illicit relationship being hidden and potentially revealed? And you want it to be part of a long, involved story-path?

In all the Bioware games I've played you can cheat on your own LI with another, keep it secret for a time, be confronted about it, and commence with teh dramas. Loyalties tested, harsh words exchanged, deep relationships forged and broken.

As I understand it, the exact situation you describe already exists, for your character, except that he/she isn't in the role you want, for roleplaying reasons.

Do I have it right so far?

[Emzamination]

LPPrince wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
Even gaider states in his blog that people sometimes forget romance isn't the entire game

Thats not because the romances are some superb excellent segment to the game however.

That's because there's a lot of people who take the romances in Bioware games far too seriously/focus on them at the expense of everything else.

Bioware devs aren't like that though. They know how much each segment of their work is worth.

But that's a great thing for... hmm  I desist.

[The Elder King]

Emzamination wrote...



You must be unaware of all the twitter demands for romance dlc, all the threads pleading for more mature romance scenes and oh yeah, that sub forum that was shut down because of the intense romance demand. lol I'd say my argument is supported just fine. Even gaider states in his blog that people sometimes forget romance isn't the entire game

Depending about the aumont of twitters, the people asking for more romance content might be a minority (not because the minority like the romance, but because only a minor part of the purchasers follows the developers and ask them questions).
I wasn't present when the ME3 character forum was closed, but I remember people said that it was because ot the massive flames, insults and something similar on the forum, and a "split" of one LI fanbase. If Bioware shut down the forum only because of a huge demand of romance dlc, it would be stupid.

[BouncyFrag]

If we use the blanket 'its optional' for all the romance requests on this board and have them implemented, but hey, no worries since its 'optional,' we would end up with a game that a lot of people wouldn't want to play.

[LPPrince]

Doodleydowop wrote...

So y'all are looking for the secret, illicit relationship being hidden and potentially revealed? And you want it to be part of a long, involved story-path?

In all the Bioware games I've played you can cheat on your own LI with another, keep it secret for a time, be confronted about it, and commence with teh dramas. Loyalties tested, harsh words exchanged, deep relationships forged and broken.

As I understand it, the exact situation you describe already exists, for your character, except that he/she isn't in the role you want, for roleplaying reasons.

Do I have it right so far?

Basically, let me write a basic summary of a path that at least I'm thinking of-

PC sees a squadmate. Squadmate is someone the PC finds romantic interest in. Squadmate however is taken already, whether in a simple relationship or marriage.

PC is scumbag who doesn't care, goes for it anyway. Squadmate consents, thus also a scumbag.

Secret illicit relationshippy stuff happens behind Squadmate's partner's back like conversations on the subject, flirting, etc etc.

Inevitable reveal happens later in game. Insert branching paths based on decisions made throughout the game to that point(fight to the death, squadmate accepts you or rejects you, etc etc). Perhaps the squadmate rejects you no matter what you say/do.

That, I'd like. If no matter what, for being a chache you end up NOT getting the object of your desires. Its a romance with a bitter ending- not bittersweet. Just bitter.

AND THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR PURSUING IT.

Gimme.

[LPPrince]

BouncyFrag wrote...

If we use the blanket 'its optional' for all the romance requests on this board and have them implemented, but hey, no worries since its 'optional,' we would end up with a game that a lot of people wouldn't want to play.

On the flipside, if we stop working on these things just because they're "optional" our game would end up an on-rails experience with no branching paths and everyone would get the same result no matter what.

Also a game that a lot of people wouldn't want to play(purely because Bioware's known for NOT making that type of game).

[Emzamination]

<edited on second thought>

Modifié par Emzamination, 30 janvier 2013 - 10:24 .

[Emzamination]

BouncyFrag wrote...

If we use the blanket 'its optional' for all the romance requests on this board and have them implemented, but hey, no worries since its 'optional,' we would end up with a game that a lot of people wouldn't want to play.

What blanket? It is optional.

[The Elder King]

Emzamination wrote...


No, it was due to people enjoying their Li alot, and that's all I'll say on that. It wasn't due to any dlc, nor did I imply it was.

They enjoyed probably too much, or in an extreme way that lead to conflict. Which happened before the release too.
About the dlc part, I interpreted "intense romance demand" with romance dlc, since it's the only way I can see to introduce more romance content in a finished game. I misunderstood your post.

Modifié par hhh89, 30 janvier 2013 - 10:28 .

[Doodleydowop]

LPPrince wrote...

Doodleydowop wrote...

So y'all are looking for the secret, illicit relationship being hidden and potentially revealed? And you want it to be part of a long, involved story-path?

In all the Bioware games I've played you can cheat on your own LI with another, keep it secret for a time, be confronted about it, and commence with teh dramas. Loyalties tested, harsh words exchanged, deep relationships forged and broken.

As I understand it, the exact situation you describe already exists, for your character, except that he/she isn't in the role you want, for roleplaying reasons.

Do I have it right so far?

Basically, let me write a basic summary of a path that at least I'm thinking of-

PC sees a squadmate. Squadmate is someone the PC finds romantic interest in. Squadmate however is taken already, whether in a simple relationship or marriage.

PC is scumbag who doesn't care, goes for it anyway. Squadmate consents, thus also a scumbag.

Secret illicit relationshippy stuff happens behind Squadmate's partner's back like conversations on the subject, flirting, etc etc.

Inevitable reveal happens later in game. Insert branching paths based on decisions made throughout the game to that point(fight to the death, squadmate accepts you or rejects you, etc etc). Perhaps the squadmate rejects you no matter what you say/do.

That, I'd like. If no matter what, for being a chache you end up NOT getting the object of your desires. Its a romance with a bitter ending- not bittersweet. Just bitter.

AND THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR PURSUING IT.

Gimme.

Thats... a lot of very specific things you're requesting there, man. And that part at the end where no matter what you get a bitter ending wouldn't sit well with a lot of bioware fans, as recent events have made clear...


But arguments of player-agency aside, it sounds like you don't respect cheaters at all, viewing them as "scumbags" which is an understandable viewpoint, as in many cases they are.

But there are also the couples that married too soon, before they found their true loves. There are those who got together from a sense of responsibility and are now trapped by regret. There are even the abusive relationships that *should* be broken up.

But you don't sound interested in the more grey areas of pursuing someone "taken", it sounds like you want it to be an entirely selfish act. And hey, I agree: you should be able to roleplay a person like that!

The same way James Bond gets to act out being a lady-killer who gets wives to cheat in the cold open short scene that establishes his character. And that is already in DA:O in the dalish camp. But later, the more compelling romance that takes up more dev time? That should be for reasons other than "ur hot, ditch this loser and come with me".

Does that make sense? I hope it made sense.

In any case... /brohoof?

[LPPrince]

Doodleydowop wrote...

Thats... a lot of very specific things you're requesting there, man. And that part at the end where no matter what you get a bitter ending wouldn't sit well with a lot of bioware fans, as recent events have made clear...


But arguments of player-agency aside, it sounds like you don't respect cheaters at all, viewing them as "scumbags" which is an understandable viewpoint, as in many cases they are.

But there are also the couples that married too soon, before they found their true loves. There are those who got together from a sense of responsibility and are now trapped by regret. There are even the abusive relationships that *should* be broken up.

But you don't sound interested in the more grey areas of pursuing someone "taken", it sounds like you want it to be an entirely selfish act. And hey, I agree: you should be able to roleplay a person like that!

The same way James Bond gets to act out being a lady-killer who gets wives to cheat in the cold open short scene that establishes his character. And that is already in DA:O in the dalish camp. But later, the more compelling romance that takes up more dev time? That should be for reasons other than "ur hot, ditch this loser and come with me".

Does that make sense? I hope it made sense.

In any case... /brohoof?

Don't worry about the specifics. Twas just an example.

As far as the bitter ending thing goes, yeah I can see that pissing people off. But if you pursued it, knowing full well what you were doing wasn't right, then come on. Expect the worst.

And yeah, I don't want the pursual of someone taken to be morally grey- I want it to be dark. Black. F'ed up. Which is funny because I'm the guy who wants happy endings to my stories and stuff, but hey. Differences are nice.

And hell yes brohoof. /)(\\

[n2nw]

I'm all for any romance that's all about me. But then, my PCs are narcissistic that way.

I am defiinitely NOT for my LI being interested in someone else. (See above statement.)

And as for the whole "do romances make the game better" debate, mark me as very much "pro" this notion. As far as I'm concerned, anything that adds a little more variety makes the game better....friendships, backgrounds, lore... But romance, well, it adds the extra touch that makes the game just right - like the perfect spice for a recipe that takes it from good to mouth wateringly delicious (so to speak).

[JWvonGoethe]

I like that in Bioware games if you try to romance more than one person you usually end up being faced with an ultimatum to choose between the two. Sometimes it would be nice to have one of the LIs do the choosing on your behalf and effectively dump you because you were playing the field. That could be seen as removing player agency, then again, it could be construed as rewarding the player with meaningful consequences for their previous choices.

I'd like to see a situation where you can start an affair with someone already in an another relationship. And for celibate protagonists, a nice compensation for not doing any romances could be getting to see companions form relationships other people (and each other) so you can still see them develop even if you don't engage them in a romantic narrative.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 30 janvier 2013 - 11:43 .

[LPPrince]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

I like that in Bioware games if you try to romance more than one person you usually end up being faced with an ultimatum to choose between the two. Sometimes it would be nice to have one of the LIs do the choosing on your behalf and effectively dump you because you were playing the field. That could be seen as removing player agency, then again, it could be construed as rewarding the player with meaningful consequences for their previous choices.

That happened in ME1 where Ashley/Kaiden would dump you for going after them and Liara. Liara was just like lolwhatever

So yeah, they could do that again.