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[PainCakesx]

Auintus wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Auintus wrote...

"It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him."

Conflict arises from an "Us vs. Them" mentality. With the lines between synthetic and organic blurred, that's one less thing that people can fight over. Perfect? Probably not, but it solves one problem.

So would you be okay with merging all ethnic races and religions? As I said before, these two factors have been two of the biggest contributors to wars and genocides.

People are people, ethnicity is irrelevent. So yes, I would.
Religion is external to being, so that is not an accurate parallel.  Besides, it would be better off eliminated rather than merged. But that's just my opinion.

So you'd prefer to live in a genetically homogenous world and believe that would result in world peace. Then it would make sense that you'd prefer synthesis. 

[Wayning_Star]

JadeShepard wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

On my second play through I chose synthesis and it was an even better ending than destruction. From what I've been seeing from playing the game back to back, the people that have been saying the endings don't fit with the games are completely wrong! these endings have been great and I liked seeing all the races I helped and the wars I stopped bring people to together. In the epilog Shep kept saying she was alive I guess she didn't die in the beam and she became something else as well. 

lol this is a troll thread if I ever saw one..

yeah, it  does appear to be synthetic..er generic with errors that seem disingenuous.. I fell for it in any event.. The shep being/saying they're alive didn't register. But we could be wrong on it as well..considering other posts from the OP..about playing another ending playthrough,etc.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 30 janvier 2013 - 03:54 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

I find it horrifying.

[Wayning_Star]

PainCakesx wrote...

Auintus wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Auintus wrote...

"It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him."

Conflict arises from an "Us vs. Them" mentality. With the lines between synthetic and organic blurred, that's one less thing that people can fight over. Perfect? Probably not, but it solves one problem.

So would you be okay with merging all ethnic races and religions? As I said before, these two factors have been two of the biggest contributors to wars and genocides.

People are people, ethnicity is irrelevent. So yes, I would.
Religion is external to being, so that is not an accurate parallel.  Besides, it would be better off eliminated rather than merged. But that's just my opinion.

So you'd prefer to live in a genetically homogenous world and believe that would result in world peace. Then it would make sense that you'd prefer synthesis. 

what is the point of that statement? how does that apply? Especially in the MEU where the only religions are self designated belief systems and reaper/prothean worship?

synthesis doesn't appear to change all genetics, just appears to modify them. big difference there.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 30 janvier 2013 - 03:43 .

[Auintus]

PainCakesx wrote...

So you'd prefer to live in a genetically homogenous world and believe that would result in world peace. Then it would make sense that you'd prefer synthesis. 

If people are going to keep saying "Us and Them" over ethnic issues, yes. It removes the problem. Preferably, people would just get over themselves and realize that ethnicity isn't even worth acknowledging when judging someone as a human being. Genetic differentiation is a beautiful thing, but if it causes conflict, I would prefer it goes.
And I'm not delusional enough to think that it would result in world peace. People would find something else to fight over, I'm sure.
My personal reason for selecting Synthesis is more that the Reapers were more a crude midway to buy time until a Synthesis-like solution could be applied. They remember the old races. Killing one Reaper is basically erasing an entire race from existence. And Destroy kills them all.
As a broad statement though, yes, your assessment is correct.

[AshenShug4r]

Synthesis is an abomination.

[Wayning_Star]

synthesis is only a bandaid when it comes to the power of nature, as the effects of it are not permenent, they cannot be,as epilogues infer. Life as nature has it's methods of change. Sythesis only gives the MEU a bit of a breather from current chaos. It doesn't stop galaxies from being sucked into any black holes eventually..or stop learning. Heck, it doesn't even kill anyone..

[Wayning_Star]

Auintus wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

So you'd prefer to live in a genetically homogenous world and believe that would result in world peace. Then it would make sense that you'd prefer synthesis. 

If people are going to keep saying "Us and Them" over ethnic issues, yes. It removes the problem. Preferably, people would just get over themselves and realize that ethnicity isn't even worth acknowledging when judging someone as a human being. Genetic differentiation is a beautiful thing, but if it causes conflict, I would prefer it goes.
And I'm not delusional enough to think that it would result in world peace. People would find something else to fight over, I'm sure.
My personal reason for selecting Synthesis is more that the Reapers were more a crude midway to buy time until a Synthesis-like solution could be applied. They remember the old races. Killing one Reaper is basically erasing an entire race from existence. And Destroy kills them all.
As a broad statement though, yes, your assessment is correct.

Many of the anti synthesis posts are from trollish lurkers wanting to buzz up supporters. Just to get a reaction. From the posts it's fairly easy to tell rhetorical dis's and invectives.

[Auintus]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Many of the anti synthesis posts are from trollish lurkers wanting to buzz up supporters. Just to get a reaction. From the posts it's fairly easy to tell rhetorical dis's and invectives.

I see. So..."Don't bother"?

Modifié par Auintus, 30 janvier 2013 - 03:55 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Auintus wrote...
Sure it does, but fine, I won't try to convince you.
Understanding of what it is to be organic. It's not like they understand everything about us, but they are made capable of empathizing.

Not surrender, compromise. Each side gives a little. The Reapers have their programming fulfilled and the galaxy gets their knowledge and their aid in rebuilding.
And occupation as in "foreign power in charge of local government," it is actually a very accurate parallel.

Changing everything in the Galaxy on a molecular level in the span of seconds is plausible given the level of tech we are shown? Did we play the same game? Even Star Trek would be hard pressed to pull something like this.

"Made capable of empathizing" is not what the Catalyst said.

It is surrender. No one wants synthesis. Not that many people had any problems with synthetics. The only thing we had major problems with are the REAPERS.

[Wayning_Star]

Auintus wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

synthesis is only a bandaid when it comes to the power of nature, as the effects of it are not permenent, they cannot be,as epilogues infer. Life as nature has it's methods of change. Sythesis only gives the MEU a bit of a breather from current chaos. It doesn't stop galaxies from being sucked into any black holes eventually..or stop learning. Heck, it doesn't even kill anyone..

True, they'll probably all die in the end anyway, but such is life.

as a plus their telephone bills will be non existent...

I think the destroy crowd feel obligated to argue the holier than thow deference. For those out there that's never even heard of a reaper, nor advance tech or catalyst program, busting out a nich in spacetime, may feel slighted by the endevour, but not as slighted as a reapership appearing because they found free stuff for grabs on some distant planet they happened across.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 30 janvier 2013 - 03:58 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Auintus wrote...
Those do-dads mean absolutely nothing in and of themselves. It's like having an on/off switch with no concept of a lightbulb.
He didn't know. He couldn't have.

It's more like he had the lightbulb, saw the battery, and either didn't care to put 2+2 together, or, for some bizarre and freaky reason, couldn't.

[Wayning_Star]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Auintus wrote...
Those do-dads mean absolutely nothing in and of themselves. It's like having an on/off switch with no concept of a lightbulb.
He didn't know. He couldn't have.

It's more like he had the lightbulb, saw the battery, and either didn't care to put 2+2 together, or, for some bizarre and freaky reason, couldn't.

the cat couldn't do anything but harvest without a jump to oveclock and process new concepts. We probably should wonder more about where those choices/new concepts sprang from. We already kind of know where the cats NOP comes from..

[Ticonderoga117]

Wayning_Star wrote...
the cat couldn't do anything but harvest without a jump to oveclock and process new concepts. We probably should wonder more about where those choices/new concepts sprang from. We already kind of know where the cats NOP comes from..

He's an unshackled AI. He can THINK. Besides, he went beyond his programming to kill his masters and make them into a space squid.

[PainCakesx]

Wayning_Star wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Auintus wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Auintus wrote...

"It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him."

Conflict arises from an "Us vs. Them" mentality. With the lines between synthetic and organic blurred, that's one less thing that people can fight over. Perfect? Probably not, but it solves one problem.

So would you be okay with merging all ethnic races and religions? As I said before, these two factors have been two of the biggest contributors to wars and genocides.

People are people, ethnicity is irrelevent. So yes, I would.
Religion is external to being, so that is not an accurate parallel.  Besides, it would be better off eliminated rather than merged. But that's just my opinion.

So you'd prefer to live in a genetically homogenous world and believe that would result in world peace. Then it would make sense that you'd prefer synthesis. 

what is the point of that statement? how does that apply? Especially in the MEU where the only religions are self designated belief systems and reaper/prothean worship?

synthesis doesn't appear to change all genetics, just appears to modify them. big difference there.

And this is different, how? 

Your claim, as the game claims, is that by merging synthetics and organics all conflict between the two will cease. I've yet to read one valid reason for this other than repeating "synthetics will take over all organics!"

The implication that simply merging two different parties to one entity will lead to galactic peace is a naive one.

[Auintus]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Changing everything in the Galaxy on a molecular level in the span of seconds is plausible given the level of tech we are shown? Did we play the same game? Even Star Trek would be hard pressed to pull something like this.

"Made capable of empathizing" is not what the Catalyst said.

It is surrender. No one wants synthesis. Not that many people had any problems with synthetics. The only thing we had major problems with are the REAPERS.

The one with the giant worm that tackled a giant metal cuttlefish, right?

Understanding and empathy are much the same thing. The can understand organics. They may not "know," but they can understand.

Who ever argued against Synthesis? Who's sitting around in the endings going, "I never asked for this."?
Who had problems with synthetics...let's see. The entire Quarian race? The fact that the Citadel has laws against creating self-aware AI?
It is not surrender. The entire Crucible scene plays out like parley and guess who chooses the terms? Shepard. That isn't surrender. That is determining the terms of your enemy's surrender, be it annihilation(Destroy), occupation(Control) or compromise(Synthesis).

[Wayning_Star]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
the cat couldn't do anything but harvest without a jump to oveclock and process new concepts. We probably should wonder more about where those choices/new concepts sprang from. We already kind of know where the cats NOP comes from..

He's an unshackled AI. He can THINK. Besides, he went beyond his programming to kill his masters and make them into a space squid.

it's what they told it to do, so?  Why did it say new options then? Just after the crucible was connected.. Why didn't it just evaporate Shep and go on with what it thought of the Leviathan?

Cat was usurped by some other think tank that developed the crucible and engieered the choices and how to carry them out.. I wonder who that could be?

[Auintus]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

It's more like he had the lightbulb, saw the battery, and either didn't care to put 2+2 together, or, for some bizarre and freaky reason, couldn't.

No. He had the switch. The stuff that you activate the Crucible by, he had that. He could see the lightbulb, but had absolutely no idea what it could do. It looks like a microphone, I wouldn't assume that it could help me bring peace between synthetics and organics either.

[Auintus]

Wayning_Star wrote...

as a plus their telephone bills will be non existent...

I think the destroy crowd feel obligated to argue the holier than thow deference. For those out there that's never even heard of a reaper, nor advance tech or catalyst program, busting out a nich in spacetime, may feel slighted by the endevour, but not as slighted as a reapership appearing because they found free stuff for grabs on some distant planet they happened across.

Always a silver lining.

Yeah. Kinda makes me think they wouldn't want a pacemaker if it would save their lives. Organic purists and all.

[Wayning_Star]

Auintus wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Changing everything in the Galaxy on a molecular level in the span of seconds is plausible given the level of tech we are shown? Did we play the same game? Even Star Trek would be hard pressed to pull something like this.

"Made capable of empathizing" is not what the Catalyst said.

It is surrender. No one wants synthesis. Not that many people had any problems with synthetics. The only thing we had major problems with are the REAPERS.

The one with the giant worm that tackled a giant metal cuttlefish, right?

Understanding and empathy are much the same thing. The can understand organics. They may not "know," but they can understand.

Who ever argued against Synthesis? Who's sitting around in the endings going, "I never asked for this."?
Who had problems with synthetics...let's see. The entire Quarian race? The fact that the Citadel has laws against creating self-aware AI?
It is not surrender. The entire Crucible scene plays out like parley and guess who chooses the terms? Shepard. That isn't surrender. That is determining the terms of your enemy's surrender, be it annihilation(Destroy), occupation(Control) or compromise(Synthesis).

actually I would consider control more of a compromise as destroy is a type of capitulation with/to the chaos, synthesis is the most extreme choice and the most potent. Also to harangue the Leviathan who started this whole mess to begin with. They need to know more than anyone humans will not take thralldom lightly, if ever. In the views of a total renegade Shepard.

refuse is an option to permit others to make the choices,as the ones available are unconstitutional.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 30 janvier 2013 - 04:15 .

[CELL55]

iakus wrote...

Hey if there's one thing the Mass Effect trilogy has taught us, it's that taking shortcuts using poorly-understood technology always works out just fine 

I'm pretty sure that was the Cerberus mission statement. And it worked out alright for them, remember? <_<

[Ticonderoga117]

Auintus wrote...
The one with the giant worm that tackled a giant metal cuttlefish, right?

Understanding and empathy are much the same thing. The can understand organics. They may not "know," but they can understand.

Who ever argued against Synthesis? Who's sitting around in the endings going, "I never asked for this."?
Who had problems with synthetics...let's see. The entire Quarian race? The fact that the Citadel has laws against creating self-aware AI?
It is not surrender. The entire Crucible scene plays out like parley and guess who chooses the terms? Shepard. That isn't surrender. That is determining the terms of your enemy's surrender, be it annihilation(Destroy), occupation(Control) or compromise(Synthesis).

The giant worm and giant metal cuttlefish are no where NEAR the same neighborhood as "In 5 seconds I can change the ENTIRE galaxy with green space radiation".

So basically... they could've just downloaded some psych books off the extranet and it accomplishes the same thing? Why do we need Synthesis then? Oh right, we don't.

The entire Quarian race had problems with the Geth? Really now? Let's see, we had those Quarians in the recordings who defended them, then we had those in the present that didn't want to fight. Then we had Tali and Korris. Huh... doesn't seem like EVERYONE had a problem with them.

And the end? That's the enemy laying out three sucky choices and letting YOU pick how YOU surrender. Go off the beaten path and act like you have a brain and the kid throws a hissy fit, shuts everything down, and continues to stomp on us even though he has his "perfect" solution right there.

[Auintus]

Wayning_Star wrote...

actually I would consider control more of a compromise as destroy is a type of capitulation with/to the chaos, synthesis is the most extreme choice and the most potent. Also to harangue the Leviathan who started this whole mess to begin with. They need to know more than anyone humans will not take thralldom lightly, if ever. In the views of a total renegade Shepard.

refuse is an option to permit others to make the choices,as the ones available are unconstitutional.

I meant compromise with your enemy. Though I won't deny that Destroy is definitely a renegade move. For one, it's red. More importantly, the Ruthless background indicates that Shepard executes surrendering Batarians or something of the sort, yes? When you're choosing to activate the Crucible, the Reapers are at your mercy. Destroy is execution. Much the same situation, when you boil it down.

[spirosz]

Question, will Mountain Dew still be green?

[Ticonderoga117]

Auintus wrote...
No. He had the switch. The stuff that you activate the Crucible by, he had that. He could see the lightbulb, but had absolutely no idea what it could do. It looks like a microphone, I wouldn't assume that it could help me bring peace between synthetics and organics either.

Gee, it's like he doesn't have 50,000 years of downtime to ponder these things. "Hmmm, i have this lightbulb. I know it creates light, but I simple don't have the power to do so. Wait... I saw planes for a very large battery not too long ago. Huh... I wonder if I could connect the two!"

It's insanity to believe that an AI, that has no reason to not think of better ways to solve the problem (because it's his mandate, and he already tried Synthesis before) over these long periods of time it takes for organics to get going again.

it's stupidity piled unto illogic.